The 2019 NFL Free Agency/Trade Thread

[Gman]

Regarding the Gmen and this trade:

First of all, the Giants handled getting rid of OBJ badly overall... going back a good period of time. They shouldn't have signed him long term if they didn't want him to be a marquee, long term player on their team.

The overall actions of the Giants regarding OBJ reflect (IMO) discord within the organization itself... some people were probably high on Beckham... some were probably fed up... and they tore in different directions. Ultimately, they got rid of him (obviously).

That being said: I don't see the deal as badly as most do. We have to keep in mind that OBJ was the highest paid WR in football... that weighs into the scenario.

Furthermore: I was in the "FED UP" camp regarding Odell... not only the attitude/antics... but I do not want OBJ as the leader of my franchise, and perhaps most importantly: I believe Beckham Jr is a significant injury risk.

The way Odell plays is dependent on acceleration. He has to be a finely tuned machine in order to have the top impact that he is capable of being.

So any hammy issue... any ankle... anything like that... he is not the big money player you need him to be. Given his frame, I just don't like the risk of relying on him to stay healthy.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Regarding the Gmen and this trade:

First of all, the Giants handled getting rid of OBJ badly overall... going back a good period of time. They shouldn't have signed him long term if they didn't want him to be a marquee, long term player on their team.

The overall actions of the Giants regarding OBJ reflect (IMO) discord within the organization itself... some people were probably high on Beckham... some were probably fed up... and they tore in different directions. Ultimately, they got rid of him (obviously).

That being said: I don't see the deal as badly as most do. We have to keep in mind that OBJ was the highest paid WR in football... that weighs into the scenario.

Furthermore: I was in the "FED UP" camp regarding Odell... not only the attitude/antics... but I do not want OBJ as the leader of my franchise, and perhaps most importantly: I believe Beckham Jr is a significant injury risk.

The way Odell plays is dependent on acceleration. He has to be a finely tuned machine in order to have the top impact that he is capable of being.

So any hammy issue... any ankle... anything like that... he is not the big money player you need him to be. Given his frame, I just don't like the risk of relying on him to stay healthy.

Agree with pretty much all of this but Odell should not be the leader of a franchise, he is a personality. I think ultimately Eli was the leader but in Cleveland Mayfield is the obvious leader and there is no question about it. Being with Jarvis I think will really help honestly. I think ultimately he wanted to win, that is his main goal. Do you have to deal with his antics on the sideline and locker room goofing around and trash-talking...sure but he wants to win.

You do realize Beckham only had one significant injury in his career?

He missed 4 games his rookie year.
He missed 1 game in his 2nd year.
He missed 2 games in his 3rd year.
He missed 12 games in his 4th year bc of the year ending injury and honestly freak injury.
He missed 4 games last year.

I wouldn't call one freak injury him being a risk imo.

 

[Across The Field]

Regarding the Gmen and this trade:

First of all, the Giants handled getting rid of OBJ badly overall... going back a good period of time. They shouldn't have signed him long term if they didn't want him to be a marquee, long term player on their team.

The overall actions of the Giants regarding OBJ reflect (IMO) discord within the organization itself... some people were probably high on Beckham... some were probably fed up... and they tore in different directions. Ultimately, they got rid of him (obviously).

That being said: I don't see the deal as badly as most do. We have to keep in mind that OBJ was the highest paid WR in football... that weighs into the scenario.

Furthermore: I was in the "FED UP" camp regarding Odell... not only the attitude/antics... but I do not want OBJ as the leader of my franchise, and perhaps most importantly: I believe Beckham Jr is a significant injury risk.

The way Odell plays is dependent on acceleration. He has to be a finely tuned machine in order to have the top impact that he is capable of being.

So any hammy issue... any ankle... anything like that... he is not the big money player you need him to be. Given his frame, I just don't like the risk of relying on him to stay healthy.

This is a really fair analysis IMO. Obviously OBJ has to remain healthy or this is a disaster for Cleveland, especially because I'm assuming they'll be re-configuring his contract to give him more guaranteed money.

That said, I think his injury issues are a little overblown. 2017 was a lost year with only 4 games, but he's played no less than 12 games in any other season of his career. He's also going to a team with where he isn't going to have to be relied on as heavily as he was in NY. Before last year, the Giants had no running game for the entire time OBJ was there. They also largely lacked a strong supporting cast at WR, as Rueben Randle and Sterling Shepard were decent but not great secondary players.

Getting to play in an offense with one of the top young QBs in the NFL, along with his best friend and arguably the top #2 WR in the NFL in Jarvis Landry will go a long way, not to mention having arguably the top RB tandem in the league as well. He's likely not going to be seeing 140+ targets anymore, so the wear and tear should be managed, as it should be.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Browns Haven’t Talked Deal With Earl Thomas
March 13th, 2019 at 9:55am CST by Zach Links
The Browns have yet to engage in contract talks with Earl Thomas, according to Mike Garafolo of NFL.com (on Twitter). On Tuesday night, reports indicated that the Browns were confident in their chances of landing the Seahawks free agent, but, at this time, it doesn’t sound like the safety will be joining a reloaded Cleveland roster.

The Browns, at first glance, profiled as a logical destination for Thomas following the trade of Jabril Peppers to the Giants in the Odell Beckham blockbuster. However, they have Damarious Randall to step into the spot filled by Peppers last season. Instead, the Browns are shopping for a strong safety, as Chris Mortensen of ESPN.com tweets.

Thomas, a talented free safety, is said to be seeking $13MM/year. At this time, it’s uncertain as to whether he’ll be able to land such a deal. There were also talks of Thomas wanting to be the highest-paid safety in the NFL, but it may be challenging for him to top Tyrann Mathieu‘s $14MM average annual salary on his new deal with the Chiefs.

The Cowboys have been connected to Thomas for the better part of a year, and there were rumblings yesterday that the Texans could make a run at the soon-to-be 30-year-old.

Looks like they are looking for a SS primarily, good call @Across The Field

 

[Gman]

You do realize Beckham only had one significant injury in his career?

He missed 4 games his rookie year.
He missed 1 game in his 2nd year.
He missed 2 games in his 3rd year.
He missed 12 games in his 4th year bc of the year ending injury and honestly freak injury.
He missed 4 games last year.

I wouldn't call one freak injury him being a risk imo.

I think you're misreading my post there.

My point is that OBJ has to have everything working in order to be the bigtime player he is capable of. He is a finely-tuned machine, in other words... and his game is dependent on elite acceleration and cutting ability.

So the injury risk I'm talking about isn't just catastrophic injury... it's having a nagging ankle or hammy or similar. That sort of thing throws off the "microchip" with him, if you follow me.

"Smaller" injuries have definitely plagued OBJ in his career, and not just in terms of missed games... he has had plenty of games where he was less than 100% and only had pedestrian impact.

 

[Gman]

That said, I think his injury issues are a little overblown. 2017 was a lost year with only 4 games, but he's played no less than 12 games in any other season of his career. He's also going to a team with where he isn't going to have to be relied on as heavily as he was in NY. Before last year, the Giants had no running game for the entire time OBJ was there. They also largely lacked a strong supporting cast at WR, as Rueben Randle and Sterling Shepard were decent but not great secondary players.

My response to you is the same as my response to @Shanemansj13 above.

 

[Across The Field]

My response to you is the same as my response to @Shanemansj13 above.

But isn't your explanation basically the same for every single player who has ever had an injury?

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think you're misreading my post there.

My point is that OBJ has to have everything working in order to be the bigtime player he is capable of. He is a finely-tuned machine, in other words... and his game is dependent on elite acceleration and cutting ability.

So the injury risk I'm talking about isn't just catastrophic injury... it's having a nagging ankle or hammy or similar. That sort of thing throws off the "microchip" with him, if you follow me.

"Smaller" injuries have definitely plagued OBJ in his career, and not just in terms of missed games... he has had plenty of games where he was less than 100% and only had pedestrian impact.

I don't agree, "smaller injuries" didn't seem to slow him down. In 4 years --- 9 games. You take just about any WR and you will see the same results, a few exceptions. Like Across said the Browns won't be completely dependent on him like the Giants were when they basically put nothing around him, bad OL, average-below average aging QB. He doesn't have to play every single snap. It makes a HUGE difference imo

 

[Gman]

But isn't your explanation basically the same for every single player who has ever had an injury?

No, it isn't.

My main point is that OBJ is a finesse guy who is more greatly affected than other players by relatively small(er) injuries.

His career has reflected this, btw. He has had periods of being "banged up" where his impact has been muted and pedestrian, even though he suited up.

A slighter, finesse guy like Beckham... this is definitely a different type of injury concern that both has impacted him more and also always has the potential to affect him more in the future, too.

 

[Gman]

I don't agree, "smaller injuries" didn't seem to slow him down. In 4 years --- 9 games. You take just about any WR and you will see the same results, a few exceptions. Like Across said the Browns won't be completely dependent on him like the Giants were when they basically put nothing around him, bad OL, average-below average aging QB. He doesn't have to play every single snap. It makes a HUGE difference imo

We'll probably have to agree to disagree... I'm a big Giants fan, though, and I've watched Bechham his whole career... I'll stand by what I said and think I have a point.

And again... it's not just pure games missed with OBJ. It's those "less than 100%" games where he has been a different player on the field.

 

[Across The Field]

No, it isn't.

My main point is that OBJ is a finesse guy who is more greatly affected than other players by relatively small(er) injuries.

His career has reflected this, btw. He has had periods of being "banged up" where his impact has been muted and pedestrian, even though he suited up.

A slighter, finesse guy like Beckham... this is definitely a different type of injury concern that both has impacted him more and also always has the potential to affect him more in the future, too.

I wouldn't call 5'11", 200 lbs "slight". And again, lingering injuries have affected tons and tons of players throughout their careers. Even in the years where he's been "banged up", he's still surpassed 1,000 yards receiving every time. He was "banged up" his first two years, but he had over 2,750 yards and 25 TDs combined in those years. Last year wasn't a great year but he was still the #4 WR in the NFL according to PFF.

Again, I think you're blowing this a bit out of proportion.

 

[Gman]

I wouldn't call 5'11", 200 lbs "slight". And again, lingering injuries have affected tons and tons of players throughout their careers. Even in the years where he's been "banged up", he's still surpassed 1,000 yards receiving every time. He was "banged up" his first two years, but he had over 2,750 yards and 25 TDs combined in those years. Last year wasn't a great year but he was still the #4 WR in the NFL according to PFF.

Again, I think you're blowing this a bit out of proportion.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree, too. I'll only say again that I'm a Giants fan and I've followed the dudes career.

Look at his game logs for the last 3 years and it might be illuminating. He has not only had missed games, but substantial 'blah' games and 'blah' periods of games where he put up pedestrian stats.

In fairness, some of that can be attributed to the Giants having a below average offense. That's a fair point, and I don't dispute it.

But I also remember the semi-constant OBJ nagging injury and/or injury concern stories that ran off and on during this time period.

It's an issue with him. We'll see what the future holds on this front, though.

 

[Across The Field]

We'll probably have to agree to disagree, too. I'll only say again that I'm a Giants fan and I've followed the dudes career.

Look at his game logs for the last 3 years and it might be illuminating. He has not only had missed games, but substantial 'blah' games and 'blah' periods of games where he put up pedestrian stats.

In fairness, some of that can be attributed to the Giants having a below average offense. That's a fair point, and I don't dispute it.

But I also remember the semi-constant OBJ nagging injury and/or injury concern stories that ran off and on during this time period.

It's an issue with him. We'll see what the future holds on this front, though.

I think it's a tough analysis because when he's healthy he's arguably the top WR in the game, which makes those "pedestrian" games stick out even more. However, look at guys like Julio, AJ Green, Thomas, Evans, and Hopkins. They've all had these same lulls, but when they're good, they're REALLY good, which is what makes them worth the money.

You're also right to point out the overall state of the Giants offense. They've had a regressing Eli and no running game for nearly every year of OBJ's time there, and he was still amazingly good.

 

[Gman]

I think it's a tough analysis because when he's healthy he's arguably the top WR in the game, which makes those "pedestrian" games stick out even more. However, look at guys like Julio, AJ Green, Thomas, Evans, and Hopkins. They've all had these same lulls, but when they're good, they're REALLY good, which is what makes them worth the money.

You're also right to point out the overall state of the Giants offense. They've had a regressing Eli and no running game for nearly every year of OBJ's time there, and he was still amazingly good.

No doubt that when 100%, OBJ is an elite talent. No doubt at all.

I have no ill will for him and am glad that he has moved conferences so I can root for him on the side.

I hope it works out for both of y'all.

 

[Across The Field]

No doubt that when 100%, OBJ is an elite talent. No doubt at all.

I have no ill will for him and am glad that he has moved conferences so I can root for him on the side.

I hope it works out for both of y'all.

Cheers for that. So who do you want at #6 and #17?

 

[jarntt]

I wouldn't call 5'11", 200 lbs "slight". And again, lingering injuries have affected tons and tons of players throughout their careers. Even in the years where he's been "banged up", he's still surpassed 1,000 yards receiving every time. He was "banged up" his first two years, but he had over 2,750 yards and 25 TDs combined in those years. Last year wasn't a great year but he was still the #4 WR in the NFL according to PFF.

Again, I think you're blowing this a bit out of proportion.

I was at the same club on South Beach for a while with OBJ and he didn't look 5'11" or 200 lbs to me.
funny note is that it was at a point in the preseason when he should have absolutely been in NY and this was way before the "boat" issue.

 

[Gman]

Cheers for that. So who do you want at #6 and #17?

I don't know, honestly... I used to hardcore follow the draft in my younger days... now I'm so busy with life and work that I don't have an educated opinion.

Given the Giants situation... (rebuilding)... getting any two guys who pan out (non-busts, in other words) is what the Gmen really need.

We need good players. Badly. We simply don't have enough.

I mean, there's Barkley... and... ... give me a minute... ...



(ok, that's an exaggeration... maybe there's one or two other guys aside from Saquon... but it ain't far from the truth, either)

 

[Across The Field]

I was at the same club on South Beach for a while with OBJ and he didn't look 5'11" or 200 lbs to me.
funny note is that it was at a point in the preseason when he should have absolutely been in NY and this was way before the "boat" issue.

Did he look smaller or bigger?

 

[Across The Field]

I don't know, honestly... I used to hardcore follow the draft in my younger days... now I'm so busy with life and work that I don't have an educated opinion.

Given the Giants situation... (rebuilding)... getting any two guys who pan out (non-busts, in other words) is what the Gmen really need.

We need good players. Badly. We simply don't have enough.

I mean, there's Barkley... and... ... give me a minute... ...



(ok, that's an exaggeration... maybe there's one or two other guys aside from Saquon... but it ain't far from the truth, either)

If Evan Engram can get healthy, he's got stud TE potential for sure. But that defense needs some real work. I laughed out loud, literally, when I saw the Bengals hired your DB coach as their new defensive coordinator.

 

[jarntt]

Did he look smaller or bigger?

Smaller. I didn't even realize it was him at first