Talk about crap QB play. SB XII in its entirety.

[theknight307]

Can you believe the Broncos this year won it? Interestingly, the Broncos Manning led offense broke the record of ineptitude, which was this offense led by Craig Morton. At least the 3rd down inefficiency. Broncos under Manning, 1 for 14 on 3rd downs. What a shitty QB.

In all fairness to the forehead, Morton threw 4 damn picks in the first half.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Pretty sure that is still the only SB where defensive linemen won the MVP award. Great job by Morton to help the Broncos get to the SB that year, but his knees were shot. Norris Weese was feisty, but. alas, no answer for Too Tall Jones, Harvey Martin, Randy White, and the rest of the Dooms Day Defense.

 

[theknight307]

Pretty sure that is still the only SB where defensive linemen won the MVP award. Great job by Morton to help the Broncos get to the SB that year, but his knees were shot. Norris Weese was feisty, but. alas, no answer for Too Tall Jones, Harvey Martin, Randy White, and the rest of the Dooms Day Defense.

Just to think Morton did not retire until.....1982. I especially loved it when they traded for "Matt Robinson" in 1980. Could have, should have drafted Warren Moon. Imagine that?

Racists.

Anyway, funny how things work out I guess. Considering if they did get Moon, then Elway.....well you know the rest. Of course, I think if they did get a Warren Moon with what the defense was under Collier for those prime years......

There may very well have some Lombardis. If you watch that SB (it takes a lot of patience), that was one hell of a defense. The crush, as you know. They stood a better chance than I thought after watching it. But man Morton was horrible.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Just to think Morton did not retire until.....1982. I especially loved it when they traded for "Matt Robinson" in 1980. Could have, should have drafted Warren Moon. Imagine that?

Racists.

Anyway, funny how things work out I guess. Considering if they did get Moon, then Elway.....well you know the rest. Of course, I think if they did get a Warren Moon with what the defense was under Collier for those prime years......

There may very well have some Lombardis. If you watch that SB (it takes a lot of patience), that was one hell of a defense. The crush, as you know. They stood a better chance than I thought after watching it. But man Morton was horrible.

Never thought of the possibility of Moon playing for the Broncos or how that might have prevented the trade for Elway.

I lived in Houston when Moon played for the Oilers. He was certainly a great player, but I am content that "we" got Johnny Bronco.

 

[CEH]

Quit spamming the board with crap about Manning. Manning is not a member of the Denver Broncos.

 

[theknight307]

Quit spamming the board with crap about Manning. Manning is not a member of the Denver Broncos.

Ohhh no. Another person who is offended with a poster telling the truth about Manning. Ohhhhh no.

Nice avatar?

 

[randymon]

Ohhh no. Another person who is offended with a poster telling the truth about Manning. Ohhhhh no.

Nice avatar?

Seems to me a certain someone gets just as easily offended when a poster disagrees with his assessment of Manning. Ohhh No!

 

[theknight307]

Seems to me a certain someone gets just as easily offended when a poster disagrees with his assessment of Manning. Ohhh No!

No, only when they cannot back it up with facts like me. Anyway, that is not the point. Just that this team proved this year that an elite QB is not needed to win it.

As I have said for a long time (going years back with me if you remember) that the top 10 passing offenses in the history of the game, only ONE won the super bowl. This dates back the old Air Coryell teams and Marino days. They tend to be one dimensional.

Ironically, even with Brady. In his first 4 seasons he was 10-0 in the play offs with 3 rings. In none of those seasons did he pass for 4000 yards or 30 TDs.

To date, a QB still has not passed more than 600 times in a season and won the trophy. Manning, has always been a stat guy. There was a butting of heads with the style of offense all year with Kubiak. He stayed on to get the "stat" records. He is that type and that is what he is and has been doing.

Of course the media along with certain fans cannot see it. The tale of two teams that WE ALL WITNESSED proves what some of us have been claiming for a long time now. The 2013 Broncos and the 2015 Broncos. I think the Broncos defense in 2013 was ranked like 20th or something? They had great talent. Granted a lot of that talent was missing the SB. Would not have made much of a difference imo.

The Hawks played the type of BALL that wins it. Balanced, hard nosed defense. Frontal football if you will. If you know Peter Carrolls past, you know he comes from the west coast balance offense. That is what they run. That balance tends to be the formula. Combined with a stifling defense, that is what it is. That is what we saw. We all witnessed what it takes. Visual, empirical, conclusive evidence.

As long as football is legal in this country (until the litigators get it banned in the country) that is what it is and always been about. I was excited to see the offense run the way it did for a while. But I always had the creepy feeling about it. There is a reason why Manning run offenses had 9 one and dones.

I appreciate what he did for a time, but this year frustrated me. The more I felt he was in it for the "stat records" (the anti-barry sanders approach) the more I felt disgusted. He had to know that he was an actual detriment to the team.

I know they won it. I get it. Do not tell me it was because of him. It wasn't.

My thread from 2013 shows my uneasiness with it the whole time.

No one else has an uneasy feeling?

Anyway, just sayin. I appreciate it and I am frustrated with him. Throw in the sycophants in the media praising him incessantly for the SB win and comparing it to the Elway situation makes me sick too. It ought to make anyone that knows anything about the game a little sick too.

I am football fan BEFORE a Broncos fan. That, may be the problem. Some call me cynical.

Well.....

"The power of accurate observation if often called cynicism by those who don't have it"

George Bernard Shaw.

 

[Gooch1034]

No, only when they cannot back it up with facts like me. Anyway, that is not the point. Just that this team proved this year that an elite QB is not needed to win it.

As I have said for a long time (going years back with me if you remember) that the top 10 passing offenses in the history of the game, only ONE won the super bowl. This dates back the old Air Coryell teams and Marino days. They tend to be one dimensional.

Ironically, even with Brady. In his first 4 seasons he was 10-0 in the play offs with 3 rings. In none of those seasons did he pass for 4000 yards or 30 TDs.

To date, a QB still has not passed more than 600 times in a season and won the trophy. Manning, has always been a stat guy. There was a butting of heads with the style of offense all year with Kubiak. He stayed on to get the "stat" records. He is that type and that is what he is and has been doing.

Of course the media along with certain fans cannot see it. The tale of two teams that WE ALL WITNESSED proves what some of us have been claiming for a long time now. The 2013 Broncos and the 2015 Broncos. I think the Broncos defense in 2013 was ranked like 20th or something? They had great talent. Granted a lot of that talent was missing the SB. Would not have made much of a difference imo.

The Hawks played the type of BALL that wins it. Balanced, hard nosed defense. Frontal football if you will. If you know Peter Carrolls past, you know he comes from the west coast balance offense. That is what they run. That balance tends to be the formula. Combined with a stifling defense, that is what it is. That is what we saw. We all witnessed what it takes. Visual, empirical, conclusive evidence.

As long as football is legal in this country (until the litigators get it banned in the country) that is what it is and always been about. I was excited to see the offense run the way it did for a while. But I always had the creepy feeling about it. There is a reason why Manning run offenses had 9 one and dones.

I appreciate what he did for a time, but this year frustrated me. The more I felt he was in it for the "stat records" (the anti-barry sanders approach) the more I felt disgusted. He had to know that he was an actual detriment to the team.

I know they won it. I get it. Do not tell me it was because of him. It wasn't.

My thread from 2013 shows my uneasiness with it the whole time.

No one else has an uneasy feeling?

Anyway, just sayin. I appreciate it and I am frustrated with him. Throw in the sycophants in the media praising him incessantly for the SB win and comparing it to the Elway situation makes me sick too. It ought to make anyone that knows anything about the game a little sick too.

I am football fan BEFORE a Broncos fan. That, may be the problem. Some call me cynical.

Well.....

"The power of accurate observation if often called cynicism by those who don't have it"

George Bernard Shaw.

Peyton cant help what the media says/does and he always directed the attention to the defense. I think he tried to play 1 more year for possibly the right reasons but needed a bunch of games to convince himself he didn't have it anymore. Luckily he didn't have to be great or even good in the end.

 

[randymon]

I don't know about anyone else here knight but my disagreement with you was that Manning had no " important " impact on Denver getting to SB and winning. I agree with you as I'm sure many here do also, that Manning should retire, looked like crap for most of the year, etc,etc. But to undermine and not appreciate how his mental aspect of his game that resulted in positive drives in every game beginning with SD game, that resulted in calling and putting people in the right places on very critical downs and extending drives and getting points even if they were only FGs, is just being ignorant to how these games played out. Sure, he deserves a lot of criticism and it is rightfully so, but to not see the " whole picture " and what he was able to accomplish is just sad on your part. Your right. He was one of the worst qbs in the league all year. I certainly won't argue that, but he was very important piece in getting the team the trophy. You should of noticed that. The fact you didn't makes me question your " football " IQ. No offense intended.

 

[theknight307]

I don't know about anyone else here knight but my disagreement with you was that Manning had no " important " impact on Denver getting to SB and winning. I agree with you as I'm sure many here do also, that Manning should retire, looked like crap for most of the year, etc,etc. But to undermine and not appreciate how his mental aspect of his game that resulted in positive drives in every game beginning with SD game, that resulted in calling and putting people in the right places on very critical downs and extending drives and getting points even if they were only FGs, is just being ignorant to how these games played out. Sure, he deserves a lot of criticism and it is rightfully so, but to not see the " whole picture " and what he was able to accomplish is just sad on your part. Your right. He was one of the worst qbs in the league all year. I certainly won't argue that, but he was very important piece in getting the team the trophy. You should of noticed that. The fact you didn't makes me question your " football " IQ. No offense intended.

The thing with what you are saying might be true. Then again, it is not really based on what I saw. The simple fact is IF he put players in the "right places" then how in the world did this offense not produce? It did not produce either. OK, they scored 3 points in the second half of the Pats game. They were 6 for 17 in 3rd down efficiency, he barely completed 50% again. He had 5.5 ypa. That is disgusting.


They were 3 for 15 on third downs against the Steelers who had one of the worst pass defenses in the league this year. He barely completed 50% against them and barely 6 yards per attempt. IF the Broncos players were put in "all of the right places" as you say, then why the inefficiency?

Want me to mention the SB stats?

Want to know why the inefficiency? I have watched the replays btw and I watch him "putting them in the right places" and I still do not really understand what you are talking about. Here is why the inefficiency. His accuracy skills have greatly diminished. He could no longer consistently hit targets over twenty yards and his inconsistency for over the top was pure ineptitude. Couple that with him not having ANY SKILL WHATSOEVER in running keepers and bootlegs and what you get are defenses whose safeties act as 8 and 9 men in the box. A backside pursuit that results in the cutback lanes being caved in. This is virtually ALL due to a QB that was long done. BTW, the blue print on how to beat him was set by the Seahawks.

With all due respect, I am not sure what you were referring to when you claim he put players in the right position. If that was the case, then the ineptitude is even worse. What difference does it make if they were in the right places if they are not converting?

BTW, against

Roethlisberger 2 for 12 3rd downs
Brady 2 for 15 3rd downs
Cam Newton 3 for 15 3rd downs.

Just to reiterate about how they won it. The Broncos offense had virtually nothing to do with it.

BTW, the Broncos were 1 for 14 3rd downs, as I have mentioned. What exactly did having them in the right places really do?

The tale of two teams my friend. Manning was a detriment to the team dating back to 2014. He got his second ring. Good for him. All I am doing is presenting facts. People get pissed at a guy like me. When you think about it, I had been very respectful starting out and then I got predictably attacked.

I will always respond in kind and some assholes put me on ignore. Not that I give a shit, but it is what it is.

 

[randymon]

Look knight, I don't dispute his inefficiency,his terrible stats or most of the negatives you throw out there regarding Manning. We all saw it. I don't think there is a Broncos fan alive that didn't shit their pants when he dropped back to pass all year. But some of us realize that offense line had a lot to do with their ineffectiveness as well as the wr drops that killed drives. Unlike you,we don't blame the ineffectiveness solely on Manning. There is plenty of blame to go around with that offense this year. Injuries and shuffling players all over that O line and inexperience is a recipe for disaster on any team. Funny how some view the game just thru visual inspection and don't bother or can't see all the other intangibles that are a huge ingredient into winning and losing football games. You can post your stats all day long and see the ugly for sure but those never tell the whole story my friend. I think your a bright guy and you make great points and observations on a lot of your posts. Do I think another qb would have had better stats and scored more points in this offense? Probably. Do I know they could of gotten Denver a SB ring? Not so sure about that so I'm just going to give credit to the qb that helped get us there and savor that and be grateful,not hateful. Cheers and smell the roses buddy. They smell great from here still.

 

[theknight307]

Look knight, I don't dispute his inefficiency,his terrible stats or most of the negatives you throw out there regarding Manning. We all saw it. I don't think there is a Broncos fan alive that didn't shit their pants when he dropped back to pass all year. But some of us realize that offense line had a lot to do with their ineffectiveness as well as the wr drops that killed drives. Unlike you,we don't blame the ineffectiveness solely on Manning. There is plenty of blame to go around with that offense this year. Injuries and shuffling players all over that O line and inexperience is a recipe for disaster on any team. Funny how some view the game just thru visual inspection and don't bother or can't see all the other intangibles that are a huge ingredient into winning and losing football games. You can post your stats all day long and see the ugly for sure but those never tell the whole story my friend. I think your a bright guy and you make great points and observations on a lot of your posts. Do I think another qb would have had better stats and scored more points in this offense? Probably. Do I know they could of gotten Denver a SB ring? Not so sure about that so I'm just going to give credit to the qb that helped get us there and savor that and be grateful,not hateful. Cheers and smell the roses buddy. They smell great from here still.

I am just wondering if you know when Manning did go out with his "injury on his foot" after he went 5 for 20 with 4 ints against the Chiefs (but he did pass Favre in that game) which ones were on the OL?

Cause to that point, Manning had been sacked 15 times. At that same point Russell Wilson had been sacked 32 times, and Brady had been sacked ohhhh 24 times?

Not saying the OL was that great. Certainly a lot of injuries and transition into a new scheme. However, his production or lack there of was not really as much on the line as some think.

Which one of these is on the OL?



That one? Perfect pocket, threw into triple coverage?



^^Those? Not under pressure. Like I said though. Good for him. He passed Favre's yards record.



^^^That? He was under some pressure. Uhhh, still no excuse for that though, right?



What pressure is he under there? None.

Sorry to keep harping on this. It is what it is. We can use ALL of the excuses in the book. I am appreciative of the SB win. That is what we are discussing. That is not the issue.

The issue is why I increasingly do not like Manning. That, for many is the issue. That means I am unappreciative of a SB win? I do not think so. In fact one has little to do with the other. Irrelevant fallacy.

 

[randymon]

Well for one thing knight, I could show 3 fuck ups plus 20 more of Brady,Rodgers, Wilson and any other top Qbs from last season that was on themselves.That was a waste of your time. Tell you what, I acknowledge your disdain for Manning and all the criticisms are duly noted. Most are very obvious. Now that we both agree that we don't see eye to eye on some things pertaining to Manning,what say we drop this topic and let's agree to disagree on the upcoming draft,Fa,etc and quit beating this horse to death. Uncle!. Be interested to hear your thoughts on Broncos future.

 

[theknight307]

Well for one thing knight, I could show 3 fuck ups plus 20 more of Brady,Rodgers, Wilson and any other top Qbs from last season that was on themselves.That was a waste of your time. Tell you what, I acknowledge your disdain for Manning and all the criticisms are duly noted. Most are very obvious. Now that we both agree that we don't see eye to eye on some things pertaining to Manning,what say we drop this topic and let's agree to disagree on the upcoming draft,Fa,etc and quit beating this horse to death. Uncle!. Be interested to hear your thoughts on Broncos future.

I doubt you would want me to show ALL SEVENTEEN of the picks this year. That was a small sample.

Anyway, we will move on.

 

[randymon]

Looking forward to it knight. I'm sure we're going to get some good stuff from ya . Soon as the FA gets over, I think we'll have a better idea what direction our Broncos might be leaning in the draft.....maybe

 

[megalodon30]

It's not exactly news that Peyton's sucked for a year and a half. I hope he chooses to retire. It was an embarrassing enough season to watch when he won the Super Bowl. Any team desperate enough to sign him isn't gonna be in a position to make the playoffs. 17 picks in half a season will be doubly embarrassing when whatever team he's on is also 0-for in the W/L column.

 

[MrDoc420]

Can you believe the Broncos this year won it? Interestingly, the Broncos Manning led offense broke the record of ineptitude, which was this offense led by Craig Morton. At least the 3rd down inefficiency. Broncos under Manning, 1 for 14 on 3rd downs. What a shitty QB.

In all fairness to the forehead, Morton threw 4 damn picks in the first half.

Why the undying hate for Manning dude, seriously? We're all well fucking aware that he had a pretty horrid year stats wise, and he didn't play all that well in the Super Bowl. That said, he broke records while he was here, was a HUGE part of us getting to the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 years, and he's been a stand up guy the entire time he's been in Denver, just like he was his entire career in Indy. You can cut him up all you want and never let go of the "1 for 14 on 3rd downs", but to call him a "shitty QB" in any capacity, at any time in his career is just so stupid and ignorant that I can't help but think that you have very little knowledge of football, and are just being a buster.

 

[theknight307]

Why the undying hate for Manning dude, seriously? We're all well fucking aware that he had a pretty horrid year stats wise, and he didn't play all that well in the Super Bowl. That said, he broke records while he was here, was a HUGE part of us getting to the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 years, and he's been a stand up guy the entire time he's been in Denver, just like he was his entire career in Indy. You can cut him up all you want and never let go of the "1 for 14 on 3rd downs", but to call him a "shitty QB" in any capacity, at any time in his career is just so stupid and ignorant that I can't help but think that you have very little knowledge of football, and are just being a buster.

Read any of my posts where I go into detail as to why he sucks. Good for him and his stupid records. I do not give one shit about any of them.

You shouldn't either.

 

[MrDoc420]

Your "detail" keeps going back and back to this one season. It doesn't take me long to boil all of that down, and like I said, most of us would agree he did not play well this year. What's with the butthurt about him owning virtually every QB record? I actually do give a shit about them because they are DENVER BRONCOS all time records and I got to see it happen in person. Yes.......I care about that.

You shouldn't be such a hater.