Take this draft in a heartbeat

[CrashDavisSports]

Yeah, you can test well all you want - and that helps when you watch film, but at the very least when looking at guys in rounds 1-2-3, you need guys who WIN at the point of attack when looking at OL/DL. Doesn't work to only be a weight-room warrior. That stuff has to show on film.

As for being a willing participant - with stats that poor, I don't know which would be better? Would it be better to say "I didn't try" or "I did try, and failed"...LOL

LOL. Fair point. But the how is the data presented? 575 run snaps sounds to me like he was on the field for those snaps, but once again...was he doubled because the rest of the defensive line sucks? Did the OC go, we are going to run the ball, but do not run it towards Shemar? How many missed tackles and tackles did he have? To me that is more of an indicator whether he was involved in the play or not. I am sure some of that is over pursuit of the pass rush, perhaps double covered, maybe he took a bad route to the tackle. So many variables.

However, as you mention, that number is so bad, it would require a team to absolutely break down all film to see why his numbers are so bad. I guess that depends on how much work you want to do on a prospect.

 

[Cincyfan78]

LOL. Fair point. But the how is the data presented? 575 run snaps sounds to me like he was on the field for those snaps, but once again...was he doubled because the rest of the defensive line sucks? Did the OC go, we are going to run the ball, but do not run it towards Shemar? How many missed tackles and tackles did he have? To me that is more of an indicator whether he was involved in the play or not. I am sure some of that is over pursuit of the pass rush, perhaps double covered, maybe he took a bad route to the tackle. So many variables.

However, as you mention, that number is so bad, it would require a team to absolutely break down all film to see why his numbers are so bad. I guess that depends on how much work you want to do on a prospect.

I want to say win rate takes all of that into consideration.

But even if not - there are lots of guys who receive the same treatment and are winning. You don't think teams doubled Pearce, or Nolen, or Grant, or Green, etc...etc...

Bottom line for me - The Bengals are not in a position to take a guy who, in all likelihood, is going to need a year, or two, to get the most out of his body. This team has to be able to draft immediate production on the defensive side of the ball in rounds 1-2-3.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I want to say win rate takes all of that into consideration.

But even if not - there are lots of guys who receive the same treatment and are winning. You don't think teams doubled Pearce, or Nolen, or Grant, or Green, etc...etc...

Bottom line for me - The Bengals are not in a position to take a guy who, in all likelihood, is going to need a year, or two, to get the most out of his body. This team has to be able to draft immediate production on the defensive side of the ball in rounds 1-2-3.

Fair point, I concur.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Going to use this as an example of what I was talking about in the other thread about the IOL double-up in the draft. Here, they would trade down in round 1 (so take Banks, but likely 4-5-6 picks later). Watts falls, so I'm good taking him there, and you have the IOL from UGA there in round 3...with the extra pick you can still land another rotational piece at DT or even DE (I've seen Sawyer in these parts as well as some other pieces). Not ideal, but that is where the Bengals are at since they couldn't splash into the early going on IOL signings. Had they signed an upper tier (or at least close) guy, they could have focused more on the DL needs early, but here we are...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Boom. Best offense in the NFL!

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I wish we’d stop mocking Tate Ratledge to the Bengals in RD 2/3. I love the player. I get he is Bengals Twitter’s favorite OL prospect. But I’d bet anything a team like the Eagles trades up into the top 8 of the 2nd to scoop him. He won’t be there at 49.

If they pass on IDL in R1 I love the idea of Alfred Collins at #49. Reminds me of Chris Jones.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I wish we’d stop mocking Tate Ratledge to the Bengals in RD 2/3. I love the player. I get he is Bengals Twitter’s favorite OL prospect. But I’d bet anything a team like the Eagles trades up into the top 8 of the 2nd to scoop him. He won’t be there at 49.

If they pass on IDL in R1 I love the idea of Alfred Collins at #49. Reminds me of Chris Jones.

I've heard a lot of him moving into the middle/high 2nd round. I agree, he likely won't be there, but you can only draft how PFF's mock falls...if he's there in the 2nd with a grade, you take him. In this case, he's there in the 3rd.

The more I think about the need for a true athlete at G, the more I hope they trade back and grab one in the late 1st while adding a 3rd round pick...this will allow them to grab a DE/DT in round 2 that can bolster that line and a if needed a DE/DT in round 3, while still having a round 3 pick to either go deeper at IOL, or pivot to LB or even S.

Still wouldn't hate finding a true slot guy. Jones can't stay healthy, and Yoshi is more of an outside backup. I don't count on Burton at all, so having a talented WR somewhere else would be nice to hedge against injury.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I've heard a lot of him moving into the middle/high 2nd round. I agree, he likely won't be there, but you can only draft how PFF's mock falls...if he's there in the 2nd with a grade, you take him. In this case, he's there in the 3rd.

The more I think about the need for a true athlete at G, the more I hope they trade back and grab one in the late 1st while adding a 3rd round pick...this will allow them to grab a DE/DT in round 2 that can bolster that line and a if needed a DE/DT in round 3, while still having a round 3 pick to either go deeper at IOL, or pivot to LB or even S.

Still wouldn't hate finding a true slot guy. Jones can't stay healthy, and Yoshi is more of an outside backup. I don't count on Burton at all, so having a talented WR somewhere else would be nice to hedge against injury.

I agree. G is the biggest true need and 17 is too rich. They could use the extra 3rd with a trade back.

I’d love to see them trade back to like 24-27 and take Grey Zabel or Donovan Jackson. Athletic OL with LT experience.

5th year option helps the Bengals since if either hits they likely won’t re-sign them when their rookie deals expire LOL.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I agree. G is the biggest true need and 17 is too rich. They could use the extra 3rd with a trade back.

I’d love to see them trade back to like 24-27 and take Grey Zabel or Donovan Jackson. Athletic OL with LT experience.

5th year option helps the Bengals since if either hits they likely won’t re-sign them when their rookie deals expire LOL.

Accurate.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I agree. G is the biggest true need and 17 is too rich. They could use the extra 3rd with a trade back.

I’d love to see them trade back to like 24-27 and take Grey Zabel or Donovan Jackson. Athletic OL with LT experience.

5th year option helps the Bengals since if either hits they likely won’t re-sign them when their rookie deals expire LOL.

Yes - the more I've been reading up on drafting IOL you really want guys who played a fair amount of OT but likely are slotted for guard at the NFL level for various reason. I've keyed on Banks from Texas as a guy I think they could slide back and grab in that middle 20 range. He's a really solid college OT, but his arms are on the short side for NFL tackles...so he ends up projecting to guard, but also gives you some versatility potential if needed.

Bengals really need that extra pick - and honestly could look to move not only in the 1st round, but maybe in the 2nd too and pick up an additional pick...maybe if they traded Pratt and the pick, you could get another 3rd in return for dropping down in the 2nd (obviously would be very team specific on this one) but regardless...Bengals have several holes to fill, F/A is picked over - and they need at least 1 impact IOL from this draft, and honestly 1 more impact DL either in the form of a rush DT (3-tech) or a pure DE.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Again - would be with a trade back in round 1 to pick up an extra 3rd. Would use that based on BPA, but focus would be another IOL, LB, S and if none of those - WR would be fine, too.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I know @CrashDavisSports is going to want his S - here is the sheet from the above Bengals draft...gone at 14...I'm not so sure he makes it to 17.

Even if he does, and I do like him a lot - if there are options to move back and pick up a late 2nd (would be a dream) or 3rd round pick...I think the extra pick plus still landing a potential day 1 impact guy at 20-24 is a better contribution to what this team needs since there are still so many needs to fill.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I prefer this one. LOL

 

[DanBengalfan]

either one is fine with me.

defense is a bigger need, but when our defense was healthy, and we weren't faced with a pro bowl offense, we did ok. just like every other season, we need depth in certain areas that the club has historically not been able to consistently fill.

we need better defense.
we need to protect our bionic million-dollar man.

 

[Cincyfan78]

either one is fine with me.

defense is a bigger need, but when our defense was healthy, and we weren't faced with a pro bowl offense, we did ok. just like every other season, we need depth in certain areas that the club has historically not been able to consistently fill.

we need better defense.
we need to protect our bionic million-dollar man.

Agreed. I've been on board with saying - I don't think the defense overall lacks talent. I think they have some pieces. Ossai did very well down the stretch when he got more PT. I think Murphy could be in a similar boat. If they can get Trey back, that really adds to the rush, and you still have this draft which is pretty solid in rounds 1 and 2 with DE and DT's from a rush point.

I think Golden's job is going to be A - Simply so guys can get where they need to be and play fast. Lou's scheme was notoriously difficult. B - get guys in the right position to make plays. Often I felt that players simply were not in the right spot to make the plays. They missed their fair share of plays, to be fair, but there were a lot of times I felt like the defense just wasn't getting guys in the right spots at all. Maybe due in some part to my point A, but whatever it was - scheme, difficulty, unwillingness to adapt by Lou...the defense just broke down far too often.

IF they cannot come to terms with Trey - the Bengals need to simply move him for a 2nd this year, and a 3rd next year. I think that is more than fair. If you do this, and are able to drop down a few spots and grab another 3rd round pick...suddenly the depth this year at DE/DT plays in the Bengals favor. You can grab BPA at 20-24 and still have TWO picks in round 2 to either move back up, or make multiple selections, while also have two more picks in round 3. You can essentially grab 5 players in the first 3 rounds, and ALL of them will be targeted with day 1 impact.

It'll suck losing Trey - but you can do this, and keep his cap for next year (and beyond) to really go out the next year and re-make the OL as needed, or continue to add to the DL as needed (as Ossai was a 1 year deal, Trey is gone, so..more than just 1 draft pick, or 2, will be needed).