Take this draft in a heartbeat

[Cincyfan78]

Hadn't heard all that, interesting. I just knew he had some baggage from college.

He upgraded from baggage to full on checked luggage in just under 1 year...

Dude is an absolute headcase.

 

[cincygrad]

Burton?

The WR who is being evicted, sued, and beat up his girlfriend...yeah, don't think the NFL is going to allow him to play next year...

They would if he was a Chief.

 

[Cincyfan78]

They would if he was a Chief.

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[Cincyfan78]

Also had one with:

Grant - DT Michigan
Green - DE Marshall
Harmon - DT Oregon

Harmon is being talked about in the last 1st round, so that wouldn't happen - but if it did...LOL Grant, Harmon, McKinley-Jackson, Jenkins would be RIDICULOUS as a rotation. Bring in 1 veteran (maybe bring back Hill or find a savvy veteran that is willing to help teach/lead) and that DL suddenly takes a big step forward...

 

[cincygrad]

I like Grant a lot. I think both of the defensive tackles for Michigan are excellent and worth first round picks. Graham will be gone in the top 5 or 10.... But Grant might be in play. Keep in mind though, as the draft gets closer, DTs often climb. History suggests you need to get them early if you want a good one.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I like Grant a lot. I think both of the defensive tackles for Michigan are excellent and worth first round picks. Graham will be gone in the top 5 or 10.... But Grant might be in play. Keep in mind though, as the draft gets closer, DTs often climb. History suggests you need to get them early if you want a good one.

Really liked the kid that went to Seattle like 1 pick before Mims was taken...I love Mims, so that worked out - but man...really wanted that kid.

Agree - if the Bengals can get lucky enough - and unless another true edge falls - I think pairing the DT with Jenkins and McKinley give you a solid 1-2-3 core - still need a veteran (or two for depth) but it's still a really good start.

add another DE in there (maybe 2 depending on F/A Ossai) and you have a decent line.

Of course - a lot of this is projection at this point until a DC is hired and we know the scheme, and then F/A of course...not to mention, Higgins...if he does leave - what if the kid from OSU is there ... do you go WR pairing him up with Chase? Do you go with a 2nd rounder, maybe...do you go F/A with a lesser WR? A lot of moving parts to this point...

 

[cincygrad]

Really liked the kid that went to Seattle like 1 pick before Mims was taken...I love Mims, so that worked out - but man...really wanted that kid.

Agree - if the Bengals can get lucky enough - and unless another true edge falls - I think pairing the DT with Jenkins and McKinley give you a solid 1-2-3 core - still need a veteran (or two for depth) but it's still a really good start.

add another DE in there (maybe 2 depending on F/A Ossai) and you have a decent line.

Of course - a lot of this is projection at this point until a DC is hired and we know the scheme, and then F/A of course...not to mention, Higgins...if he does leave - what if the kid from OSU is there ... do you go WR pairing him up with Chase? Do you go with a 2nd rounder, maybe...do you go F/A with a lesser WR? A lot of moving parts to this point...

If Higgins leaves, I think you have to take the kid from OSU or the kid from Mizzou. Taking a step back on offense would be a big mistake. And while Chase played 17 games this year, it's not fair to expect him to play 17 every season. He plays very physical and he'll get banged up from time to time. Burrow is awesome, but I don't want to watch him play without Tee and Chase - Even Mahomes has his struggles without weapons.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If Higgins leaves, I think you have to take the kid from OSU or the kid from Mizzou. Taking a step back on offense would be a big mistake. And while Chase played 17 games this year, it's not fair to expect him to play 17 every season. He plays very physical and he'll get banged up from time to time. Burrow is awesome, but I don't want to watch him play without Tee and Chase - Even Mahomes has his struggles without weapons.

I agree...if Higgins leaves, you have to find a replacement round 1/2 or F/A - I also think you see them re-sign Gesicki for 1 more year...but if they keep Higgins, I think Gesicki will cost too much and they are not going to want to allocate that money towards a TE when All will be returning, McLachlan will have a year under him - unless they see him as a F/A split out WR/TE to replace Burton - who - well, didn't play anyway...so....

Agreed, though - have to find ways to keep the offense high powered. Honestly, best way to do that would be to upgrade LG/RG massively in some way but without that...yes....

 

[cincygrad]

I agree...if Higgins leaves, you have to find a replacement round 1/2 or F/A - I also think you see them re-sign Gesicki for 1 more year...but if they keep Higgins, I think Gesicki will cost too much and they are not going to want to allocate that money towards a TE when All will be returning, McLachlan will have a year under him - unless they see him as a F/A split out WR/TE to replace Burton - who - well, didn't play anyway...so....

Agreed, though - have to find ways to keep the offense high powered. Honestly, best way to do that would be to upgrade LG/RG massively in some way but without that...yes....

I would pay Higgins, see if you can get Gesicki, get at least one good FA guard, re-sign Cody Ford, draft an interior linemen in the first 3 rounds and then hope some of the young guys develop on D. I realize you're still vulnerable on that side of the football, but with a second season of Pitch at the helm of this offense with all the weapons and the additions of some guards, you are absolutely cooking. A high draft pick or two on D and some improvements with new scheme and player development and you have enough to compete in the AFC.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I would pay Higgins, see if you can get Gesicki, get at least one good FA guard, re-sign Cody Ford, draft an interior linemen in the first 3 rounds and then hope some of the young guys develop on D. I realize you're still vulnerable on that side of the football, but with a second season of Pitch at the helm of this offense with all the weapons and the additions of some guards, you are absolutely cooking. A high draft pick or two on D and some improvements with new scheme and player development and you have enough to compete in the AFC.

Hard to disagree...and let's be honest...the offense may take a slight step back in some ways. Can Burrow really be expected to put up franchise type numbers again? Maybe...but he's also got to stay healthy. First time since the SB year he was able to do that. Same with Chase - as you said on health - but a triple crown? Probably not...but wouldn't be needed if they do re-sign Higgins, keep Gesicki, and get 1 more WR instead of Burton...Burrow will simply go where the defense isn't.

I agree on IOL - I think there could be some guys in round 2 and 3....but if they are looking for a starter, then they are going to have to invest in a high(er) level pick AND make sure it's not a guy with projected measurables - but someone that is more polished than not. May not have the ceiling of a guy like Mims, but is more plug-and-play ready. There's likely going to be a tradeoff outside of using their 1st rounder on someone that is currently listed as an OT, but more likely an IOL at the NFL level.

Defensively - I've said I like most of the pieces - I think there is talent to work with. I think these guys need more coaching to put them in better situations to make plays and be less confusing. When you see guys like Pratt, Bell, and others in the wrong spots - it makes you wonder after so many years how they can get so confused. But - the defense does need more speed all over (LB, DE especially) - and needs a pass-rush (see rush LB/DE in F/A or draft)...so the DC is going to be key here to see what they will run and how guys will line-up. A lot of good young rushers in round 2/3 projected, but some of them are more standup OLB (think Watt style) than Hendrickson style...but, it would be interesting to see Trey in a Watt like role...I think he could pull that off...but it would mean needing to get much faster at RDE and finding a pocket pusher at DT.

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[Cincyfan78]

Quite honestly - that may be my favorite one yet - of course, a lot depends on Higgins...

 

[Cincyfan78]

Regardless of how things play out in F/A - the draft needs to get back to high round players being selected because they are expected to be really freaking good sooner than later. No more projects at round 1 or 2. No more, we think this guy can help in 2-3 years. They need to start landing some dudes that are just good - even if the position may not be 100% a position of need.

This team needs to get back to drafting expected NFL output and not NFL projects.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Regardless of how things play out in F/A - the draft needs to get back to high round players being selected because they are expected to be really freaking good sooner than later. No more projects at round 1 or 2. No more, we think this guy can help in 2-3 years. They need to start landing some dudes that are just good - even if the position may not be 100% a position of need.

This team needs to get back to drafting expected NFL output and not NFL projects.

I think that has been the case for the most part. Mims was considered a project because of his lack of snaps. But he was huge, had all t he tools but was lacking experience. I think other guys like Dax Hill, Ossai, Jenkins, Murphy, etc. Most these guys were expected to be immediate impact players to help us move forward with the defense. The guys that have been kicking our ass lately are the offensive line picks early, until we hit on Mims. We need guys to get healthy, we need a scheme that allows them to play fast and physical instead of thinking so damn much. Lou rarely ever blitzed either, he loved his nickle/dime packages and rush 4 guys. I hate that with our defensive line. KC kept Allen a little off target last night, and same with Buffalo on Mahomes, they would bring that rush and force them to accelerate their thought process. They couldn't wait on those windows like they usually do. Now that wasn't the whole game, but it was times. We need to figure out more exotic blitz packages, how to cover on the back end during those moments. We need guys that can win at the point of attack or learn how to use their hands to counter offensive line blocks.

I really hope as Peter's works with the offensive line and takes that jujitsu style hand fighting to the oline to help them, that he is able to counsel the dline on how to get quick burst and counter those blocks as Montgomery gives them his tutelage.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think that has been the case for the most part. Mims was considered a project because of his lack of snaps. But he was huge, had all t he tools but was lacking experience. I think other guys like Dax Hill, Ossai, Jenkins, Murphy, etc. Most these guys were expected to be immediate impact players to help us move forward with the defense. The guys that have been kicking our ass lately are the offensive line picks early, until we hit on Mims. We need guys to get healthy, we need a scheme that allows them to play fast and physical instead of thinking so damn much. Lou rarely ever blitzed either, he loved his nickle/dime packages and rush 4 guys. I hate that with our defensive line. KC kept Allen a little off target last night, and same with Buffalo on Mahomes, they would bring that rush and force them to accelerate their thought process. They couldn't wait on those windows like they usually do. Now that wasn't the whole game, but it was times. We need to figure out more exotic blitz packages, how to cover on the back end during those moments. We need guys that can win at the point of attack or learn how to use their hands to counter offensive line blocks.

I really hope as Peter's works with the offensive line and takes that jujitsu style hand fighting to the oline to help them, that he is able to counsel the dline on how to get quick burst and counter those blocks as Montgomery gives them his tutelage.

Murphy was definitely a guy that was a project - they talked about him being able to sit and watch Hubbard and Trey - be in the rotation some, but he was a future guy. Same with Hill, who sat behind Bates and was the expected heir apparent.

I think there was more belief that Mims could start day 1, and had he not gotten hurt - he would have. Jenkins the same, and I think for a rookie he did fine.

But my point being is that they need to land some guys in rounds 1-2-3 who are not just expected to be rotation guys for a year, or 2, and then be starters, but they need to start targeting bonafide starting guys - regardless of position. High end athletes that are NFL quality starters typically have some leeway with what you can do with them, and you can never have enough quality depth.

Once you start getting into rounds 4-5-6, I want to see high end athletes, high RAS scores - give me the most athletic guys. The trust has to be with the coordinators to put them in situations to succeed based on their traits. Something I feel Lou did not do, nor did Pollack.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Murphy was definitely a guy that was a project - they talked about him being able to sit and watch Hubbard and Trey - be in the rotation some, but he was a future guy. Same with Hill, who sat behind Bates and was the expected heir apparent.

I think there was more belief that Mims could start day 1, and had he not gotten hurt - he would have. Jenkins the same, and I think for a rookie he did fine.

But my point being is that they need to land some guys in rounds 1-2-3 who are not just expected to be rotation guys for a year, or 2, and then be starters, but they need to start targeting bonafide starting guys - regardless of position. High end athletes that are NFL quality starters typically have some leeway with what you can do with them, and you can never have enough quality depth.

Once you start getting into rounds 4-5-6, I want to see high end athletes, high RAS scores - give me the most athletic guys. The trust has to be with the coordinators to put them in situations to succeed based on their traits. Something I feel Lou did not do, nor did Pollack.

Some of these guys yes, they had starters in front of them, but once again, they were expected as rotational players until they had to replace the starter, like Hill with Bates, Murphy with Hubbard. You already said in your post that we may have depth at a position, but you have to take guys that are considered impact players that will contribute whether that is year one or later on when replacing guys because they pushed a starter out. Otherwise, you are not talking about grabbing an impact player that is going to improve the depth, you are talking about drafting for NEED, and when you draft for need instead of taking best player available, you potentially leave yourself weak from not taking higher potential players over positions of NEED you are trying to fill with draft picks instead of quality veteran players.

If there is a position of great need, I want to fill that hole with a vet/FA, and then draft best player available at the time of our picks. And if we just happen to get the best player available and he matches up with a position of need, great. We have the rookie come in, learn behind the vet, jettison the vet the following year if the rookie is ready to make a difference.

 

[DanBengalfan]

bengals will need to be active in free agency. you can't depend on your 2nd and 3rd rounders to be super stars out of the gate, and late rounders are roster fillers and prospects.

 

[cincygrad]

Regardless of how things play out in F/A - the draft needs to get back to high round players being selected because they are expected to be really freaking good sooner than later. No more projects at round 1 or 2. No more, we think this guy can help in 2-3 years. They need to start landing some dudes that are just good - even if the position may not be 100% a position of need.

This team needs to get back to drafting expected NFL output and not NFL projects.

The most puzzling of these was Dax Hill. There was absolutely no reason why he couldn't have been used more during his first year. Yes, they thought he could be a safety and that is a hard position in Lou's defense. But with all of the different packages that get used, they could have easily found a space for his athelticism and when they did he made some plays.... But not enough snaps.