T-Rode's Unpopular Opinion - Session 4: Quarterbacks in the NFL

[Yo Tee]

T-Rode's Unpopular Opinion - Session 4:

Here is a list of some of the Free Agent Quarterbacks that were signed before within the last two years

Kirk Cousins - 3 years, $84 mill fully guaranteed
Case Keenum - 2 years, $36 mill with $25 million guaranteed
Sam Bradford - 1 year, $20 mill
Derek Carr - 5 years, $125 mill with $70.2 million guaranteed
Matthew Stafford - 5 years, $135 mill with $92 million guaranteed

The combined career playoff W-L record of those quarterbacks is 1-5.
None of these QBs has a winning record as a starter.
The combined career regular season W-L record of those quarterbacks (including this year) is 188-207-3.
The combined regular season W-L record this season of those quarterbacks is 13-28-1.

That kind of money should be reserved for QBs that have had success in the league. None of these QBs have led their team to a Super Bowl. Only 1 QB has won a playoff game (Case Keenum). None of these quarterbacks have had the type of success to warrant this type of money and it's arguable whether or not any of these QBs have the ability to have any of the type of success to warrant this type of money in the future.

None of these QBs deserved the money they got and quite frankly, all but 1 DON'T deserve to be a starting QB in the NFL.

But, that's just my unpopular opinion.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

At least you don't post total horse hooey like mrschaney....

Leaning to "hooeiysh" but not 100%.....

 

[Yo Tee]

At least you don't post total horse hooey like mrschaney....

Leaning to "hooeiysh" but not 100%.....

At least I bring facts and statistics to the table

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I usually want beverages and food at my table.

 

[Yo Tee]

I usually want beverages and food at my table.

Damn, that's what I'm missing!

 

[jarntt]

This is really cherry picking. First off were Carr and Stafford FA's? I would have thought they were signed before becoming FAs. Second it's not like high priced QBs have won every SB lately when a guy that was cut and signed for peanuts (relatively speaking) was the reason his team won the SB just last year. Third, there are only so many SB winning QBs. Are the other teams to not sign or play a QB because there are none available that won a SB? I think every team wants to draft a young cheap stud QB but it isn't always that easy.

Keenum and Cousins are only halfway through their first year with their new teams. How do we even know how the signings will ultimately go? Stafford has almost always been on shit teams. Including Bradford on any list is a layup. He sucks. He illustrates your point perfectly. But there is only one Sam Bradford. Personally I think Keenum sucks and was a horrible move for Denver. Everything is relative with salary and QB. It is by so far the most important position in the NFL that teams know their best chance for success is to get as good of QB play as they can. I think most QBs are overpaid, but as long as teams keep giving the next seasons FA crop more than the previous seasons it isn't going to stop.

The Bottom line is what should these teams have done differently? Leave off Bradford and Keenum because IMO they were just poor decisions. Right or wrong almost everyone said Minnesota was a QB away from competing for a SB. So they went out and overpaid for the best one out there. I thought it was a great move on their part, but only 3% of teams wins a SB each year, so you need luck as well.

 

[Yo Tee]

This is really cherry picking. First off were Carr and Stafford FA's? I would have thought they were signed before becoming FAs. Second it's not like high priced QBs have won every SB lately when a guy that was cut and signed for peanuts (relatively speaking) was the reason his team won the SB just last year. Third, there are only so many SB winning QBs. Are the other teams to not sign or play a QB because there are none available that won a SB? I think every team wants to draft a young cheap stud QB but it isn't always that easy.

Keenum and Cousins are only halfway through their first year with their new teams. How do we even know how the signings will ultimately go? Stafford has almost always been on shit teams. Including Bradford on any list is a layup. He sucks. He illustrates your point perfectly. But there is only one Sam Bradford. Personally I think Keenum sucks and was a horrible move for Denver. Everything is relative with salary and QB. It is by so far the most important position in the NFL that teams know their best chance for success is to get as good of QB play as they can. I think most QBs are overpaid, but as long as teams keep giving the next seasons FA crop more than the previous seasons it isn't going to stop.

The Bottom line is what should these teams have done differently? Leave off Bradford and Keenum because IMO they were just poor decisions. Right or wrong almost everyone said Minnesota was a QB away from competing for a SB. So they went out and overpaid for the best one out there. I thought it was a great move on their part, but only 3% of teams wins a SB each year, so you need luck as well.

How is this cherry picking? Only guys I left off the list were Drew Brees and Jimmy Garoppolo.

These teams should've evaluated their situations at QB.

Did Minnesota need Kirk Cousins or could they have kept Keenum for cheaper? They knew Keenum at QB worked, why not pay him? Stafford hasn't won a playoff game in his entire career, what's be bringing to the Lions that he's worth that money? Him and Cousins are stat machines and great fantasy QBs but when you get to the actual success of the teams they play for, they aren't worth that much because they don't bring that much to the team. Sam Bradford is an injury prone QB that doesn't have a winning record, never been to the playoffs and his best days are behind him.

 

[Across The Field]

This is really cherry picking. First off were Carr and Stafford FA's? I would have thought they were signed before becoming FAs. Second it's not like high priced QBs have won every SB lately when a guy that was cut and signed for peanuts (relatively speaking) was the reason his team won the SB just last year. Third, there are only so many SB winning QBs. Are the other teams to not sign or play a QB because there are none available that won a SB? I think every team wants to draft a young cheap stud QB but it isn't always that easy.

Keenum and Cousins are only halfway through their first year with their new teams. How do we even know how the signings will ultimately go? Stafford has almost always been on shit teams. Including Bradford on any list is a layup. He sucks. He illustrates your point perfectly. But there is only one Sam Bradford. Personally I think Keenum sucks and was a horrible move for Denver. Everything is relative with salary and QB. It is by so far the most important position in the NFL that teams know their best chance for success is to get as good of QB play as they can. I think most QBs are overpaid, but as long as teams keep giving the next seasons FA crop more than the previous seasons it isn't going to stop.

The Bottom line is what should these teams have done differently? Leave off Bradford and Keenum because IMO they were just poor decisions. Right or wrong almost everyone said Minnesota was a QB away from competing for a SB. So they went out and overpaid for the best one out there. I thought it was a great move on their part, but only 3% of teams wins a SB each year, so you need luck as well.

I think the crux of the argument is that teams are so desperate for an elite QB, they take mediocre QBs and pay them like they're elite, which is definitely true. I don't argue that it's the most important position, but you can win without an elite one.

Bradford is a great example, sure, but Stafford has never once been elite. He has volume stats, but he's the king of garbage time. He's not a great leader, which is one of the most prominent characteristics of an elite QB. Brady is, Rodgers is, Brees is, Rivers is. Eli is one of the only outliers here who has won at the highest level without being a true vocal leader.

In a few years, the league will completely belong to Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Baker Mayfield, and Pat Mahomes.

 

[molsaniceman]

cousins 5-3-1
keenum 3-6

oops

 

[Clayton]

Sam Bradford being worthless is a very popular opinion

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Stafford is incredibly overrated as a QB. But yeah, when I was logging contracts during the summer on QB,s basically the conclusion I had is if you're available and haven't outright proven you suck, you will get paid significant money, period. Even high-end backups like Keenum will make over 10% of the cap at minimum ala Keenum, Bortles, etc. If a team thinks they're getting value at sub 10%, that in itself is usually a red-flag ala Foles.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I am not really feeling the Cousins hate though, personally. From what I've seen, Vikings fans should be happy they aren't 3-5 or some shit like that.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Carr was always fraudulent. Now that the rookie/young QB shine is off of him there isn't much of a defense for him right now. He just stinks.

As for Bradford:

if you're available and haven't outright proven you suck, you will get paid significant money, period.

Schrödinger's QB?

 

[Yo Tee]

cousins 5-3-1
keenum 3-6

oops

Cousins has already matched the number of losses Keenum led the Vikings to last year at 3 and there's still 8 weeks left in the season.

Keenum is 2 wins away from matching the win total from Denver's entire season last year.

tl;dr version - Keenum has improved the Broncos, Cousins has not improved the Vikings.

 

[Yo Tee]

I am not really feeling the Cousins hate though, personally. From what I've seen, Vikings fans should be happy they aren't 3-5 or some shit like that.

Do last year's Vikings lose to the Buffalo Bills? Vikings had a top 10 offense last year, this year, top 15.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Do last year's Vikings lose to the Buffalo Bills? Vikings had a top 10 offense last year, this year, top 15.

With Tyrod? Probably about 40% of the time

 

[molsaniceman]

Cousins has already matched the number of losses Keenum led the Vikings to last year at 3 and there's still 8 weeks left in the season.

Keenum is 2 wins away from matching the win total from Denver's entire season last year.

tl;dr version - Keenum has improved the Broncos, Cousins has not improved the Vikings.

keenum with vikings 23.9 ppg
cousins 24.6

 

[Yo Tee]

keenum with vikings 23.9 ppg
cousins 24.6

Vikings with Cousins - Scored 30 points twice in 9 games
Vikings with Keenum - Scored 30 points 3 times in 9 games

First 9 games with Cousins - 5-3-1
First 9 games with Keenum - 7-2 (including win over the Rams)

Cousins hasn't done anything to improve the team and hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of money.

 

[Yo Tee]

With Tyrod? Probably about 40% of the time

I disagree. Bills were a better team last year, no doubt, but so were the Vikings.

 

[jarntt]

How is this cherry picking? Only guys I left off the list were Drew Brees and Jimmy Garoppolo.

These teams should've evaluated their situations at QB.

Did Minnesota need Kirk Cousins or could they have kept Keenum for cheaper? They knew Keenum at QB worked, why not pay him? Stafford hasn't won a playoff game in his entire career, what's be bringing to the Lions that he's worth that money? Him and Cousins are stat machines and great fantasy QBs but when you get to the actual success of the teams they play for, they aren't worth that much because they don't bring that much to the team. Sam Bradford is an injury prone QB that doesn't have a winning record, never been to the playoffs and his best days are behind him.

So you use Denver signing Keenum as part of your example to not sign FA QBs, but then use it the opposite way to say why shouldn't Minnesota have kept him the way Oak and Det kept Carr and Stafford who you also used as part of your FA example

Doesn't Stafford lead the league in 4th Qtr comebacks or something?