Sway me one way or another

[True Lakers Fan]

what a dumb ass

FUCK YOU BITCH

 

[moxie]

It is a fact with normal fans of the sport. Only a dumb ass would think he would have broken records without the benefit of drugs. Others are free to interpre the events as they like, but common sense and logic state that his record is not legitimate.

As biased as I am, I can't help but consider the possibility that the pitchers were juiced against hitters of the steroid era as well. Does it even out? I don't know, but I can't help but think it carries at least a little bit of weight.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

what a dumb ass

You stupid and miserable piece of shit that actuall thinks assholes like Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and A-Rodriguez deserves to be mentioned and acknowledged in the the major leagues when they cheated like a bunch of fuckin mafia gangsters selling drugs to children. Fuck that that shit and fuck them and fuck any one that supports that shit. That's as bad as Paterno letting Sandusky r*pe children

 

[True Lakers Fan]

As biased as I am, I can't help but consider the possibility that the pitchers were juiced against hitters of the steroid era as well. Does it even out? I don't know, but I can't help but think it carries at least a little bit of weight.

No it doesn't even out because it has not been established or proven that absolutely every one was a drug addict even though the numbers was extremely high. Every person that used performance enhancing drugs should be automatically disqualified from the books. Stronger messages needs to be sent to these assholes that are taking your money to watch them play and getting a thrill because they are high as a kite. That hurts the little guys that could have and would have been more

 

[True Lakers Fan]

As for trying to sway you, it depends on how you're approaching the argument. Are you looking at this from an all-around perspective? Because if you are, there's no way you can go with anyone but Bonds. His combination of hitting, defense and baserunning is unrivaled at the position.

But I also think that if you gave Williams some kind of credit for the 5 years he missed to military service, he'd edge Bonds ever so slightly because he was just that great of a hitter.

He really doesn't want you to sway him and has no intention of that happening. He merely wants a reason to provide public support for his drug infested heros

 

[Omar 382]

You stupid and miserable piece of shit that actuall thinks assholes like Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and A-Rodriguez deserves to be mentioned and acknowledged in the the major leagues when they cheated like a bunch of fuckin mafia gangsters selling drugs to children. Fuck that that shit and fuck them and fuck any one that supports that shit. That's as bad as Paterno letting Sandusky r*pe children

hahahahahahaha what the fuck!!! are you trolling? yeah, a-rod is your regular pablo escobar. yes, a-rod, bonds, mcgwire, and sosa all deserve to be mentioned in the major leauges because they are major league PLAYERS. when the fuck did any of these players sell any drugs to children lol? you're an idiot, my friend. many players have estimated that the number of players who juiced during the late '90s through the mid 2000's is around 50% of the players or higher. why weren't 50% of these players hall of famers? do you think steroids are just some magical potion that can turn you into willie mays? you're an idiot. please stop posting

 

[Omar 382]

As for trying to sway you, it depends on how you're approaching the argument. Are you looking at this from an all-around perspective? Because if you are, there's no way you can go with anyone but Bonds. His combination of hitting, defense and baserunning is unrivaled at the position.

But I also think that if you gave Williams some kind of credit for the 5 years he missed to military service, he'd edge Bonds ever so slightly because he was just that great of a hitter.

yeah, i agree it depends on if you are talking about the players starting their career in 2014, or if you are going off the actual careers that they had. if they start in '14, i think i go with williams because there's no draft and it would be harder for bonds to juice considering there are drug tests these days. but if you base your decision off the careers that the players had, then i would go with bonds

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It is a fact with normal fans of the sport. Only a dumb ass would think he would have broken records without the benefit of drugs. Others are free to interpre the events as they like, but common sense and logic state that his record is not legitimate.

I'd suggest you look into the definition of "fact".

I really don't care about records when evaluating the player he was for his career. Records are often a product of opportunity, and of the environment at the time that player played. They're the cherry on top, not the sundae itself.

Nothing he did from the beginning of his career through 1999 was illegitimate, and he was already in pretty rare company by that point. Then, with the help of PEDs, he took it to another level. But I have a hard time- as a logical person- believing that his performance from 1999-2007 was purely the result of PED use. He would not have hit 73 or 756, but PEDs alone can't explain his transformation as a hitter in those years. He completely re-dedicated himself to the craft of hitting. He simply wasn't willing to give in to pitchers and was willing to wait for the rare instance they gave him a pitch to hit who did his damage. He probably could have had MORE home runs had he not been so patient and disciplined. PEDs don't improve plate discipline. The change in his approach was the biggest factor in his late-career surge, and that's not historically anomalous. The PEDs gave him added strength to hit more HR, and helped keep him healthy, but otherwise, his performance is what it is.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

You stupid and miserable piece of shit that actuall thinks assholes like Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and A-Rodriguez deserves to be mentioned and acknowledged in the the major leagues when they cheated like a bunch of fuckin mafia gangsters selling drugs to children. Fuck that that shit and fuck them and fuck any one that supports that shit. That's as bad as Paterno letting Sandusky r*pe children

You're really pathetic. Congrats.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

yeah, i agree it depends on if you are talking about the players starting their career in 2014, or if you are going off the actual careers that they had. if they start in '14, i think i go with williams because there's no draft and it would be harder for bonds to juice considering there are drug tests these days. but if you base your decision off the careers that the players had, then i would go with bonds

Well, no. I didn't say that. It depends on how you're looking at the argument. Are you putting all the weight on hitting? If so, it's Williams. Or are you putting it on all-around ability? If so, then it's Bonds.

 

[Omar 382]

Well, no. I didn't say that. It depends on how you're looking at the argument. Are you putting all the weight on hitting? If so, it's Williams. Or are you putting it on all-around ability? If so, then it's Bonds.

i'm not putting all the weight on either. i'm asking who was the best left fielder of all time? in other words, who would you rather have on your team through the rest of their careers. does the fact that williams was a slightly better hitter offset bonds' longevity, fielding, and speed?

 

[David_son]

I have most other positions figured out, but I have had a tough time figuring out who the greatest left fielder of all time is. I go back and forth every other day. Technically, Musial played more games at first base, so he is not in the debate.

Ted Williams: .344/.482/.634 190 OPS+ 521 HR 1,839 RBI 188 wRC+

Barry Bonds: .298/.444/.607 182 OPS+ 762 HR 1,996 RBI 173 wRC+

And don't give me some stupid shit about how Bonds is disqualified from this discussion because of his PED use. You can factor that into the equation, but don't be ridiculous.

I think you need to take it into acct. Bonds first 7 years didnt have more than 34 HRs. to compare properly you should probably take Barrys avg per year from his first seven years and then expand that to over the course of his career and his RBI walk and HR will be a lot lower.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

hahahahahahaha what the fuck!!! are you trolling? yeah, a-rod is your regular pablo escobar. yes, a-rod, bonds, mcgwire, and sosa all deserve to be mentioned in the major leauges because they are major league PLAYERS. when the fuck did any of these players sell any drugs to children lol? you're an idiot, my friend. many players have estimated that the number of players who juiced during the late '90s through the mid 2000's is around 50% of the players or higher. why weren't 50% of these players hall of famers? do you think steroids are just some magical potion that can turn you into willie mays? you're an idiot. please stop posting

No they don't - They are all fuckin punks that cheated - without drugs they had zero talent for all we know and they earned millions of dollars off of morons like paying them to cheat

 

[True Lakers Fan]

You're really pathetic. Congrats.

You are pathetic yourself - pretending like you know something about baseball - LOSER

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I think you need to take it into acct. Bonds first 7 years didnt have more than 34 HRs. to compare properly you should probably take Barrys avg per year from his first seven years and then expand that to over the course of his career and his RBI walk and HR will be a lot lower.

Without the Drugs - He was just an average player that would have hardly been noticed and quickly forgotten about. Word

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I'd suggest you look into the definition of "fact".

I really don't care about records when evaluating the player he was for his career. Records are often a product of opportunity, and of the environment at the time that player played. They're the cherry on top, not the sundae itself.






Nothing he did from the beginning of his career through 1999 was illegitimate, and he was already in pretty rare company by that point. Then, with the help of PEDs, he took it to another level. But I have a hard time- as a logical person- believing that his performance from 1999-2007 was purely the result of PED use. He would not have hit 73 or 756, but PEDs alone can't explain his transformation as a hitter in those years. He completely re-dedicated himself to the craft of hitting. He simply wasn't willing to give in to pitchers and was willing to wait for the rare instance they gave him a pitch to hit who did his damage. He probably could have had MORE home runs had he not been so patient and disciplined. PEDs don't improve plate discipline. The change in his approach was the biggest factor in his late-career surge, and that's not historically anomalous. The PEDs gave him added strength to hit more HR, and helped keep him healthy, but otherwise, his performance is what it is.

This says it all right here about yourself. You don't care about the truth because records tells us exactly what happened. The fact remains that Bonds was a nobody without the drugs. The drugs may have perfectly legal, but they were not legitimate to the spirit of the games and it was cheating

 

[True Lakers Fan]

NO PED'S FOR BONDS = NO RECORD BREAKING = JUST ANOTHER LOSER

 

[Omar 382]

as your signature so ironically states: you can't fix stupid

 

[True Lakers Fan]

as your signature so ironically states: you can't fix stupid

Exactly - I cannot fix your stupid ass. Thank you for acknowledging that

Sorry, but Barry BarRoids does not have a legitimate record. It is a scientific fact that records of experiments is based on accuracy. Without that accuracy - there is data to prove your theories. Bonds might have been a hall of famer, but it is doubtful - his record before and ped's and after suggests otherwise

 

[Omar 382]

Exactly - I cannot fix your stupid ass. Thank you for acknowledging that

Sorry, but Barry BarRoids does not have a legitimate record. It is a scientific fact that records of experiments is based on accuracy. Without that accuracy - there is data to prove your theories. Bonds might have been a hall of famer, but it is doubtful - his record before and ped's and after suggests otherwise

yep, you can't fix stupid