state of the roster

[skinsdad62]

State of the Redskins Roster: Who Stays, Who Goes? - HTTR4LIFE.com - HTTR4LIFE.com

this appears to be a good take on the roster although i would argue Rg3 belongs in the "on the cusp" category number 3 in their rankings

 

[Sportster 72]

It is not a bad stab dad. This is where we find out how well Gruden and McCloughan work together. Gruden should be telling Mc who he likes and who he doesn't and listening to Mc's opinions. Then they start to put a plan together to acquire new players. Ultimately it is McCloughan's job to buy the ingredients and Gruden's job to make the soup taste good. Hopefully they will work well together.

 

[Stymietee]

Any list that has P. Garcon as a #1 wideout, T. Way in the middle and P. Thomas on the cusp instead of in the middle is suspect at best.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Any list that has P. Garcon as a #1 wideout, T. Way in the middle and P. Thomas on the cusp instead of in the middle is suspect at best.

Disagree. For starters - they never said that Garcon was a #1 wideout (BTW that is a stupid term only used by mediots who like to start arguments). They only stated that Garcon is a building block which is basically correct (they also stated that Jackson also was "without question").

As for Way - here is part of what they stated:

If punters were considered building blocks he would have been on the list.

Totally agree. They are not stating that Way is not one of the best punters in the NFL. They are simply stating that having a good punter should not be one of your top strengths on your team (sadly true for the current Skins). As for Thomas - well you could be correct, but that is a judgement call - time will tell.

 

[Stymietee]

Disagree. For starters - they never said that Garcon was a #1 wideout (BTW that is a stupid term only used by mediots who like to start arguments). They only stated that Garcon is a building block which is basically correct (they also stated that Jackson also was "without question").

As for Way - here is part of what they stated:

If punters were considered building blocks he would have been on the list.

Totally agree. They are not stating that Way is not one of the best punters in the NFL. They are simply stating that having a good punter should not be one of your top strengths on your team (sadly true for the current Skins). As for Thomas - well you could be correct, but that is a judgement call - time will tell.

Here's what was actually written about Garcon in the article...................– WR Pierre Garcon – Even though his numbers dipped significantly in 2014, he is still very much the number one receiver for Washington.

I could be wrong but that last part seems to be contradicting your assertion. BTW: in stark contrast to what too many want to believe about Garcon, he won't be around when this team turns it around.

About T. Way, it is beyond me that some chose to downplay the importance of special teams. This is especially true when it comes to punters and kickers. How often did this guy bail the team out of bad field position? Many have suggested that in fact, he was the MVP of this past season. To further illustrate my point, i'll ask you these questions. Ready?.......Who was the ONLY kicker in league history to win MVP honors? What team did he play for?

 

[skinsdad62]

Here's what was actually written about Garcon in the article...................– WR Pierre Garcon – Even though his numbers dipped significantly in 2014, he is still very much the number one receiver for Washington.

I could be wrong but that last part seems to be contradicting your assertion. BTW: in stark contrast to what too many want to believe about Garcon, he won't be around when this team turns it around.

About T. Way, it is beyond me that some chose to downplay the importance of special teams. This is especially true when it comes to punters and kickers. How often did this guy bail the team out of bad field position? Many have suggested that in fact, he was the MVP of this past season. To further illustrate my point, i'll ask you these questions. Ready?.......Who was the ONLY kicker in league history to win MVP honors? What team did he play for?

i dont see the point about what difference it makes as to what "number" one puts on garcon as far as WR is concerned

i also dont see a point in taking a strength of this team and turning it into a weakness just yet because cutting garcon means you are looking for a wr in this draft .

i am not sure roberts is a replacement for garcon which is what you would be doing

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Here's what was actually written about Garcon in the article...................– WR Pierre Garcon – Even though his numbers dipped significantly in 2014, he is still very much the number one receiver for Washington.

I could be wrong but that last part seems to be contradicting your assertion. BTW: in stark contrast to what too many want to believe about Garcon, he won't be around when this team turns it around.

About T. Way, it is beyond me that some chose to downplay the importance of special teams. This is especially true when it comes to punters and kickers. How often did this guy bail the team out of bad field position? Many have suggested that in fact, he was the MVP of this past season. To further illustrate my point, i'll ask you these questions. Ready?.......Who was the ONLY kicker in league history to win MVP honors? What team did he play for?

My bad about Garcon. However - with the right QB & decent protection he is still a very valuable asset. Nobody knows what his status will be next season. That is actually what I believe will be good about this GM. He will keep us off guard & not necessarily make moves that will initially please the fan base & perhaps members of this forum. However - ultimately he will probably make the correct moves in most cases. In this case it might mean keeping or releasing Garcon - we are not the experts so I will leave the decision to them.

As for Way - perhaps but again it stands out as a strength for the Redskins since their incompetent offense resulted in the fact that they had to punt way too often. I would rather see good ST in terms of superior kickoffs (when the Skins score a lot) or decent returns. Truly good teams don't have to rely on their punter too often. I would be thrilled to have a mediocre punter on an otherwise well above average team.

HTTR

 

[Stymietee]

i dont see the point about what difference it makes as to what "number" one puts on garcon as far as WR is concerned

i also dont see a point in taking a strength of this team and turning it into a weakness just yet because cutting garcon means you are looking for a wr in this draft .

i am not sure roberts is a replacement for garcon which is what you would be doing

The point is that too many here are supporting a false positive by equating a career #2 wideout with guys that other teams must game plan against. To be clear, P. Garcon has never been nor will ever be that level of player. Even during his best season (2013) he never commanded the attention that the best of the lot have.

It makes a difference because when evaluating the team, player for player, even the sideline evaluators, like us, must do so soberly, with clear vision and an unbiased bend lest we mislead ourselves and become disappointed in their play or when the team trades or cuts them in order to upgrade. BTW, we should be forever in upgrade mode (team and fans), that said it may be easier to understand if you consider this scenario. Let's say that Washington somehow finds the next Calvin Johnson, but had to cut or trade one of the three (New guy, Garcon or DJax)? Easy to see...right?

So, what if Ryan Grant is capable of replicating what Garcon does, only with younger legs and a greater upside?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW - I know the answer to your question is Mosely, but that has to be one of the lamest MVP selections ever & was in a strike shortened season. Don't believe that you will see that again for a very, very long time. As a matter of fact it basically takes a miracle for a non-QB to win that award at this time.

 

[Stymietee]

My bad about Garcon. However - with the right QB & decent protection he is still a very valuable asset. Nobody knows what his status will be next season. That is actually what I believe will be good about this GM. He will keep us off guard & not necessarily make moves that will initially please the fan base & perhaps members of this forum. However - ultimately he will probably make the correct moves in most cases. In this case it might mean keeping or releasing Garcon - we are not the experts so I will leave the decision to them.

As for Way - perhaps but again it stands out as a strength for the Redskins since their incompetent offense resulted in the fact that they had to punt way too often. I would rather see good ST in terms of superior kickoffs (when the Skins score a lot) or decent returns. Truly good teams don't have to rely on their punter too often. I would be thrilled to have a mediocre punter on an otherwise well above average team.

HTTR

I would rather have a team the is envied top to bottom by the rest of the league.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I would rather have a team the is envied top to bottom by the rest of the league.

Agree & a punter would be a nice complement. However - when the biggest strength (or one of the top 3) is your punter that is very, very sad. Here's to having a team that will be envied & viewed as a top one in 2-3 years or so. With this GM - regardless of the current coaches - I believe that is a distinct possibility.

 

[Stymietee]

Agree & a punter would be a nice complement. However - when the biggest strength (or one of the top 3) is your punter that is very, very sad. Here's to having a team that will be envied & viewed as a top one in 2-3 years or so. With this GM - regardless of the current coaches - I believe that is a distinct possibility.

To you sir........

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The point is that too many here are supporting a false positive by equating a career #2 wideout with guys that other teams must game plan against. To be clear, P. Garcon has never been nor will ever be that level of player. Even during his best season (2013) he never commanded the attention that the best of the lot have.

It makes a difference because when evaluating the team, player for player, even the sideline evaluators, like us, must do so soberly, with clear vision and an unbiased bend lest we mislead ourselves and become disappointed in their play or when the team trades or cuts them in order to upgrade. BTW, we should be forever in upgrade mode (team and fans), that said it may be easier to understand if you consider this scenario. Let's say that Washington somehow finds the next Calvin Johnson, but had to cut or trade one of the three (New guy, Garcon or DJax)? Easy to see...right?

So, what if Ryan Grant is capable of replicating what Garcon does, only with younger legs and a greater upside?

If that happens then the current GM - not us - will make the correct choice & make moves as needed to keep the right mix of talent & keep within the cap. Our thoughts, expectations really don't and should not mean much. The exception would be during long term failure (like now) where fan outrage will boil over and pretty much force the hand of the team. Otherwise - I don't want the organization to make moves based on the fans thoughts (assuming the FO is competent). That philosophy is pretty much what guided Snyder & Vinnie for years & the results were horrendous.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

To you sir........

In the end we all want the same thing! Cheers

 

[skinsdad62]

The point is that too many here are supporting a false positive by equating a career #2 wideout with guys that other teams must game plan against. To be clear, P. Garcon has never been nor will ever be that level of player. Even during his best season (2013) he never commanded the attention that the best of the lot have.

It makes a difference because when evaluating the team, player for player, even the sideline evaluators, like us, must do so soberly, with clear vision and an unbiased bend lest we mislead ourselves and become disappointed in their play or when the team trades or cuts them in order to upgrade. BTW, we should be forever in upgrade mode (team and fans), that said it may be easier to understand if you consider this scenario. Let's say that Washington somehow finds the next Calvin Johnson, but had to cut or trade one of the three (New guy, Garcon or DJax)? Easy to see...right?

So, what if Ryan Grant is capable of replicating what Garcon does, only with younger legs and a greater upside?

again what number you put on him is much ado about nothing

garcon could be a number one wr . if you want a label . the question is , is he an elite one ? again it would be a matter of what kind of "number one " he is

as for grant i think he did ok his rookie year , but i wouldnt make a leap just yet that he can be garcon

right now he is a 4 or 5 guy and a decent one

 

[Sportster 72]

Garcon is the most physical and best blocking WR on the team. That is an undervalued trait by many fans. I would love to have both him and DJax back but not sure the Redskins are going to pay the approximate $20 million they cost together.

I also agree with notion that assigning a number to a WR is a TV thing. Garcon is plenty good enough to play for almost any team in the NFL. The only question is how much do you want to pay for him.

 

[j_y19]

I also don't understand the dis on Garcon. What difference does it make if he's a #1, 2 or 3, he's a hell of a WR and a fighter, probably the most passion of anyone on the team. And don't fool yourself. Teams do have to game plan around him. I'd take 11 Garcon's and would win a lot of games.

 

[Stymietee]

I also don't understand the dis on Garcon. What difference does it make if he's a #1, 2 or 3, he's a hell of a WR and a fighter, probably the most passion of anyone on the team. And don't fool yourself. Teams do have to game plan around him. I'd take 11 Garcon's and would win a lot of games.

If you believe that it's a dis on Garcon then you've missed the point. This team is in rebuild mode right now. Evaluating the roster is the first thing that must be done, but done so as good evaluators must. Garcon is a pretty good wideout, no one has ever said differently, however, upgrades are needed everywhere, even at positions where we're looking pretty good right now. Why? Well, because in 2-3 years when this team is (hopefully) fighting for playoff spots again, those guys may very well be on the downside of their careers. Personally, I would trade Garcon now, because his value will never be higher due to aging. If McGloughin is as good as advertised then that pick or player will be an asset for more to come than Garcon has left in the league. No dis....just business.

 

[Stymietee]

I also don't understand the dis on Garcon. What difference does it make if he's a #1, 2 or 3, he's a hell of a WR and a fighter, probably the most passion of anyone on the team. And don't fool yourself. Teams do have to game plan around him. I'd take 11 Garcon's and would win a lot of games.

BTW: it makes a difference because we're all fans of this team, some have the propensity to become attached to players, others follow the company line (use the Ryan Clark experiment if you must) and some like myself are cutthroat bastards. We call it like it is and make no room for sentimentality.

If you must use P. Garcon as the example, so be it. In 2013, many here touted him as a beast, a sure top notch wideout in the NFL, Then with the addition of DJax, became surprised when he fell to the #2 guy. Now with the addition of a top notch GM (we hope) the team is in a rebuilding mode. How many of the Garcon is a top notch guy supporters would be shocked and angered if he only returned a late third or 4th round pick in trade? Not me!!!Why? because I see him for what his entire career said he's been, a pretty good supporting player who's had a singular best season on a terrible team that had no other option in the passing game except him. So, stop fooling yourself, he's a career #2 who's value is falling.

BTW: I'll take 11 very good Db's and play them against your 11 Garcons, and shut you down every time.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sty you have been taking shots and suggesting Garcon is not good enough, should be traded etc. etc for some time now. I remember one game in particular where you started your rant against Garcon with a "where is Garcon" when he caught 4 passes in short order. It isn't hard to tell when someone is dead against a player or defends a player beyond the pale. That is fine, it is your right to like who you do. Clearly a number of us think Garcon is worth keeping. He still lead the team in receptions despite the QB play. I think paired with DJax the team has a good set of receivers. Sadly we haven't had a QB they deserve to play with.