Source: No progress made in negotiations with Goldson

[Bemular]

I understand what you posted. It's just nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking.

Actually, not at all. Since this involved the CBA and involved the rules surrounding the Franchise Tag, I was posting for the sincere purpose of just keeping the integrity of the thread intact.

Yesterday, I changed the Franchise Tag page on Wikipedia and have suggested other changes to the page as well - I take this seriously and not at all for the sake of being nit-picky. So please don't take it personally. We are getting along great these days let's keep it that way.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Alright, fair enough.

 

[Bemular]

Q: What details stopped Dashon and the Niners from a contract?


Simply, the 49ers' idea of Dashon Goldson's long-term worth is different than Goldson's idea. According to a league source the 49ers were willing to go as high as $7 million annually with $14 million guaranteed to sign Goldson. On June 19, safety Michael Griffin's contract with the Tennessee Titans came in right around those numbers.

Goldson stated on Twitter that same day the 49ers had yet to formally offer him a contract. Goldson wanted something closer to Eric Weddle's $8 million average with the San Diego Chargers.

A contract averaging $7 million a year seems fair for both sides. But they were never able to get it done.


So, Goldson wanted $8m, we were willing to pay $7m and next year's tag comes in at $7.45m. If this report is accurate, then there were some real stubborn people sitting at that negotiating table - especially since Dogra had just signed Griffin to a 5yr/$36m

My hope is that Goldson does earn his $8m/yr contract this year and he signs that contract with us!

 

[mem49er]

I think Goldson is gettin' on my nerves a little, again. I think the FO put a fair offer out.

 

[imac_21]

I think Goldson is gettin' on my nerves a little, again. I think the FO put a fair offer out.

What was the offer?

 

[BINGO]

49ers Mailbag: Will Goldson be a 49er beyond 2012?

 

[deep9er]

ok, i also stand corrected on Goldson's value cause just read he was offered $7M/season. actually, i NOW believe this amount was already speculated from the get go............senioritis.

 

[mem49er]

What was the offer?

Q: What details stopped Dashon and the Niners from a contract?


Simply, the 49ers' idea of Dashon Goldson's long-term worth is different than Goldson's idea. According to a league source the 49ers were willing to go as high as $7 million annually with $14 million guaranteed to sign Goldson. On June 19, safety Michael Griffin's contract with the Tennessee Titans came in right around those numbers.

Goldson stated on Twitter that same day the 49ers had yet to formally offer him a contract. Goldson wanted something closer to Eric Weddle's $8 million average with the San Diego Chargers.

A contract averaging $7 million a year seems fair for both sides. But they were never able to get it done.

...

 

[imac_21]

Simply, the 49ers' idea of Dashon Goldson's long-term worth is different than Goldson's idea. According to a league source the 49ers were willing to go as high as $7 million annually with $14 million guaranteed to sign Goldson. On June 19, safety Michael Griffin's contract with the Tennessee Titans came in right around those numbers.

Goldson stated on Twitter that same day the 49ers had yet to formally offer him a contract. Goldson wanted something closer to Eric Weddle's $8 million average with the San Diego Chargers.

A contract averaging $7 million a year seems fair for both sides. But they were never able to get it done.

That seems a little vague in details. "Willing to go as high as . . ." doesn't indicate an offer was made. It indicates what the max the team would be willing to offer is.

It also says Goldson said he was never formally offered a contract.

It's hard to call an offer "fair" when one seems to not have existed.

 

[mem49er]

That seems a little vague in details. "Willing to go as high as . . ." doesn't indicate an offer was made. It indicates what the max the team would be willing to offer is.

It also says Goldson said he was never formally offered a contract.

It's hard to call an offer "fair" when one seems to not have existed.

Let's say that I believe anything in that neighborhood (speculating that it was probably close given that those numbers have been out in other reports and what Griffin signed for) is reasonable. Especially given that Goldson was a late pick that had to be groomed a bit and has still to this point not been consistently good. If you disagree, that's ok with me.

 

[imac_21]

Let's say that I believe anything in that neighborhood (speculating that it was probably close given that those numbers have been out in other reports and what Griffin signed for) is reasonable. Especially given that Goldson was a late pick that had to be groomed a bit and has still to this point not been consistently good. If you disagree, that's ok with me.

Being a late pick is such BS. Tom Brady was a late pick. Why should where a guy was drafted influence their second (or in the case of Goldson, third) contract?

And we know nothing about any offer. Even the quote you posted said how high the Niners were willing to go with no details. It told us what they MAY be willing to guarantee (without specifics) and an average salary. That's not an offer.

What if that was a 5 year, 35M contract with 14M in guarantees with a breakdown of a 2.5M roster bonus in year 4, a 6M roster bonus in year 5 and 500k workout bonuses every year? Those count toward the guarantee.
Calling money guaranteed doesn't mean a player is going to get it.


Now, what if the base salary breakdown (21M over 5 years) saw 10M in year five and 6M in year 4?

That fits the contract details outlined above (7M per year, 14M guaranteed) but 9.5M of the guaranteed is in the last 2 years and 16 of the 21M in base salary is in the last two years. Now that contract has 25.5M of the 35M in the last two years.

It's essentially a 3 year contract for 9.5M, then he gets cut.

Is that a good contract for Goldson?

Now, it's an extreme example, but the point is without knowing the breakdown of the (alleged) offer, we can't say if it was a good offer or not.

 

[mem49er]

Being a late pick is such BS. Tom Brady was a late pick. Why should where a guy was drafted influence their second (or in the case of Goldson, third) contract?

I stated why in the rest of my post. He had to be developed and has not to this point proven to be a consistent top FS. BTW - way to pick just about the all-time biggest draft bargain.

And we know nothing about any offer. Even the quote you posted said how high the Niners were willing to go with no details. It told us what they MAY be willing to guarantee (without specifics) and an average salary. That's not an offer.

What if that was a 5 year, 35M contract with 14M in guarantees with a breakdown of a 2.5M roster bonus in year 4, a 6M roster bonus in year 5 and 500k workout bonuses every year? Those count toward the guarantee.
Calling money guaranteed doesn't mean a player is going to get it.


Now, what if the base salary breakdown (21M over 5 years) saw 10M in year five and 6M in year 4?

That fits the contract details outlined above (7M per year, 14M guaranteed) but 9.5M of the guaranteed is in the last 2 years and 16 of the 21M in base salary is in the last two years. Now that contract has 25.5M of the 35M in the last two years.

It's essentially a 3 year contract for 9.5M, then he gets cut.

Is that a good contract for Goldson?

Now, it's an extreme example, but the point is without knowing the breakdown of the (alleged) offer, we can't say if it was a good offer or not.

I'm under the impression that guaranteed means guaranteed to get it. If not, then the players made a very stupid decision in signing the CBA. The Niners FO has done a good job valuing players pretty accurately. Can you think of any that left that got a deserved large contract? Jury is out on Morgan, btw, since I don't think he's even proven to be fit yet, much less worth the size of his contract (add in the fact that it was the Redskins and Morgan should be left out of the discussion altogether).

 

[imac_21]

I stated why in the rest of my post. He had to be developed and has not to this point proven to be a consistent top FS. BTW - way to pick just about the all-time biggest draft bargain.

Would you prefer to focus more on mid round picks? Montana? Owens?

I'm under the impression that guaranteed means guaranteed to get it. If not, then the players made a very stupid decision in signing the CBA. The Niners FO has done a good job valuing players pretty accurately. Can you think of any that left that got a deserved large contract? Jury is out on Morgan, btw, since I don't think he's even proven to be fit yet, much less worth the size of his contract (add in the fact that it was the Redskins and Morgan should be left out of the discussion altogether).

You're under the wrong impression regarding guarantees. "Guaranteed money" means bonus money. Most analysts talk about just the first 3 years of the deal. Or did Nate Clements really make the 80M in his contract?

My point remains that nothing in the quote above tells us anything about the offer he received. It states how high the Niners may go. To say the offer was fair is irresponsible.

Edit: What players of Goldson's calibre (pro bowl, franchise tag) have left the team in the last couple years? The last one I remember was Peterson, which was not this regime.

 

[MHSL82]

Being a late pick is such BS. Tom Brady was a late pick. Why should where a guy was drafted influence their second (or in the case of Goldson, third) contract?

And we know nothing about any offer. Even the quote you posted said how high the Niners were willing to go with no details. It told us what they MAY be willing to guarantee (without specifics) and an average salary. That's not an offer.

What if that was a 5 year, 35M contract with 14M in guarantees with a breakdown of a 2.5M roster bonus in year 4, a 6M roster bonus in year 5 and 500k workout bonuses every year? Those count toward the guarantee.
Calling money guaranteed doesn't mean a player is going to get it.


Now, what if the base salary breakdown (21M over 5 years) saw 10M in year five and 6M in year 4?

That fits the contract details outlined above (7M per year, 14M guaranteed) but 9.5M of the guaranteed is in the last 2 years and 16 of the 21M in base salary is in the last two years. Now that contract has 25.5M of the 35M in the last two years.

It's essentially a 3 year contract for 9.5M, then he gets cut.

Is that a good contract for Goldson?

Now, it's an extreme example, but the point is without knowing the breakdown of the (alleged) offer, we can't say if it was a good offer or not.

Would you prefer to focus more on mid round picks? Montana? Owens?



You're under the wrong impression regarding guarantees. "Guaranteed money" means bonus money. Most analysts talk about just the first 3 years of the deal. Or did Nate Clements really make the 80M in his contract?

My point remains that nothing in the quote above tells us anything about the offer he received. It states how high the Niners may go. To say the offer was fair is irresponsible.

Edit: What players of Goldson's calibre (pro bowl, franchise tag) have left the team in the last couple years? The last one I remember was Peterson, which was not this regime.

This is what I was thinking in February to March when Alex wouldn't sign. We could assume that the structure was fair or we could assume that it wasn't. I won't say that it was definitely unfair and that's why he didn't sign, but I read that the structure was better at the end, but that amounts weren't upped that much. QBs are different than FSs and three years is much different than 5, so there's less of an analogy, but there's some truth to it that without knowing details, it's harder to evaluate.

 

[mem49er]

Would you prefer to focus more on mid round picks? Montana? Owens?

And those guys proved to be consistent producers, Goldson has not.

You're under the wrong impression regarding guarantees. "Guaranteed money" means bonus money. Most analysts talk about just the first 3 years of the deal. Or did Nate Clements really make the 80M in his contract?

I readily admit I don't know all the ins and outs of contract structure and verbiage but was 80 the total value or the guaranteed?

My point remains that nothing in the quote above tells us anything about the offer he received. It states how high the Niners may go. To say the offer was fair is irresponsible.

IMO, with regards to the personnel moves made in the last couple seasons, the FO has shown good judgement and fairness. On the surface, the speculated numbers are in keeping with that. I'm sure that if he were low-balled we would have already heard through various leaks from the Goldson camp.

Edit: What players of Goldson's calibre (pro bowl, franchise tag) have left the team in the last couple years? The last one I remember was Peterson, which was not this regime.

Franklin?

 

[Bemular]

Just to inject some perspective into this discussion, it is worth noting, since Goldson became our starter in '09, he has started 46/48 games (obviously among the leaders for that 3-year period).

Last year he was one of the best FS's in the league and played at that level in the playoffs. In 2009, Goldson arguably should have gone to the Pro-Bowl over Antione Bethea and despite having a statistical off season in 2010 he is still (statistically) among the top 5-8 FS's in the league over that 3-year period.

I don't know what that should translate into as far as dollars goes, or how that translates with regard to consistency - but I do know whatever the hell it means I want it on my team.