Some will hate the taylor mays pick even more

[sayheykid1]

who said he isn't accountable? as the person named in charge of the draft by Jed, yes Baalke is accountable. we might consider he didn't have control till near draft day? we might consider Singletary has a strong personality and likely gave more input that he should've? but as the person in charge of the 2010 draft, Baalke is accountable.

fans NEED someone to be accountable, else who are we going to point fingers at?

what i don't agree with is...............not surprising, someone is already expanding this blame going back to 2005. similar to blaming Jed for things going all the way back to 2000.

I am not blaming him for everything going back to 2005 but he has been a part of the culture of fail since 1995 along with Marathe and Jed. Baalke and Marathe were player personnel guys in a time when the player personnel decisions weren't that great and they got promoted.

I am hoping for improvement but it has been a dysfunctional mess of a front office for a long time and I haven't seen any improvement yet.

 

[FourBeeDen]

I am not blaming him for everything going back to 2005 but he has been a part of the culture of fail since 1995 along with Marathe and Jed. Baalke and Marathe were player personnel guys in a time when the player personnel decisions weren't that great and they got promoted.

I am hoping for improvement but it has been a dysfunctional mess of a front office for a long time and I haven't seen any improvement yet.

Just clarifying that statement.. You're saying that going back from 1995 not Baalke has been in the organization since 1995...Is that a correct statement?

 

[deep9er]

I am not blaming him for everything going back to 2005 but he has been a part of the culture of fail since 1995 along with Marathe and Jed. Baalke and Marathe were player personnel guys in a time when the player personnel decisions weren't that great and they got promoted.

I am hoping for improvement but it has been a dysfunctional mess of a front office for a long time and I haven't seen any improvement yet.

ok, thats fair.

 

[FourBeeDen]

If that is what you're trying to say then you're including Eddie DeBartolo, Bill Walsh, George Seifert, and Steve Mariucci as being part of the "culture of fail" you stated above...

From 1994 - 97 Seifert was the Head Coach of the Niners. Bill Walsh returned to the 49ers as VP and GM from 1999 - 2001. Mariucci replaced Seifert as HC in 1998 ... DeBartolo lost control of the Team in 2000...

 

[sayheykid1]

If that is what you're trying to say then you're including Eddie DeBartolo, Bill Walsh, George Seifert, and Steve Mariucci as being part of the "culture of fail" you stated above...

From 1994 - 97 Seifert was the Head Coach of the Niners. Bill Walsh returned to the 49ers as VP and GM from 1999 - 2001. Mariucci replaced Seifert as HC in 1998 ... DeBartolo lost control of the Team in 2000...

I don't need a history lesson.

I mentioned 2005 multiple times prior to my last post where I mistakenly posted 1995, you didn't realize that I meant 2005 rather than 1995 when I was referring to a person who joined the 49er organization in 2005?

I get the feeling you just typed all of that to be an asshole.

 

[threelittleturds]

Did some of you even bother to read the entire article?

Baalke, who ran the 2010 draft but who was not yet promoted to general manager at the time, did not want to take Mays in the second round, according to multiple sources. Mays' advocate instead was coach Mike Singletary, and Baalke and Singletary had a heated exchange about the selection as their pick approached in 2010.

Look, I understand mackdown's retardation of blame everything on Baalke, Marathe, and Jed... no matter what... even when they aren't the ones making the pick. You can't fix stupid.

But the rest of you? C'mon. Baalke was running the draft, in the sense that he was supervising the scouting, putting together the draft board, making the trades, etc. I wish I could find the article/video where it stated that Singletary was given the final decision on all football matters after McCloughan left, but I can't... instead you'll just have to go with the story from multiple sources that said they argued over the pick with Singletary winning and taking Mays.

Add that with Baalke shopping Mays to everybody this year, and finally getting rid of him for a 7th round pick... it should be pretty damn obvious that Singletary was indeed the guy with the final say.

Yet, you want to hold Baalke responsible for not being able to talk Singletary out of a stupid decision?? Does that really make sense to you?

 

[sayheykid1]

Did some of you even bother to read the entire article?



Look, I understand mackdown's retardation of blame everything on Baalke, Marathe, and Jed... no matter what... even when they aren't the ones making the pick. You can't fix stupid.

But the rest of you? C'mon. Baalke was running the draft, in the sense that he was supervising the scouting, putting together the draft board, making the trades, etc. I wish I could find the article/video where it stated that Singletary was given the final decision on all football matters after McCloughan left, but I can't... instead you'll just have to go with the story from multiple sources that said they argued over the pick with Singletary winning and taking Mays.

Add that with Baalke shopping Mays to everybody this year, and finally getting rid of him for a 7th round pick... it should be pretty damn obvious that Singletary was indeed the guy with the final say.

Yet, you want to hold Baalke responsible for not being able to talk Singletary out of a stupid decision?? Does that really make sense to you?

I am not holding Baalke responsible for everything or most or even a significant amount of what has fgone wrong but he was a part of the player personnel team over the past five years and I don't know what he brings to the table. He was a part of the mess. What does he bring to the table?

As far as Marathe, he has been part of the personnel team for a long time, his talent evaluation system has been implemented and praised by the organization and while things in player personnel have not been good IMO while he has been in the picture.

And finally there is Jed. I don't blame him for anything prior to his tenure as Team President but what has gone well since he took over? What has he done right for football operations? I wish he would hire a strong football person to make decisions on what to do with staff like Baalke and Marathe but he hasn't and I have no reason to trust him in his football decisions like who to promote.

Do you really think these criticisms/concerns are unreasonable? Can you show me some positives with about these guys?

I am not trying to be like Mackclown here but I think there is reason to question if these guys should be running football operations.

 

[deep9er]

Did some of you even bother to read the entire article?



Look, I understand mackdown's retardation of blame everything on Baalke, Marathe, and Jed... no matter what... even when they aren't the ones making the pick. You can't fix stupid.

But the rest of you? C'mon. Baalke was running the draft, in the sense that he was supervising the scouting, putting together the draft board, making the trades, etc. I wish I could find the article/video where it stated that Singletary was given the final decision on all football matters after McCloughan left, but I can't... instead you'll just have to go with the story from multiple sources that said they argued over the pick with Singletary winning and taking Mays.

Add that with Baalke shopping Mays to everybody this year, and finally getting rid of him for a 7th round pick... it should be pretty damn obvious that Singletary was indeed the guy with the final say.

Yet, you want to hold Baalke responsible for not being able to talk Singletary out of a stupid decision?? Does that really make sense to you?

when you're the boss, blame "comes with the territory", thats what i'm saying and sticking to it. from various sources Singletary wanted Mays specifically, so we place most blame on Singletary. but the guy in charge is still accountable to the extent he's the boss, Baalke had the final say.

if someone under the boss was being rogue, thats another story, but clearly Baalke was placed in charge of the draft.

btw - i'm not on Baalke's case for Mays, at least not to the extent others are? cause if i was Baalke at the time, not sure i'd have totally ignored the HC?

 

[FourBeeDen]

I don't need a history lesson.

I mentioned 2005 multiple times prior to my last post where I mistakenly posted 1995, you didn't realize that I meant 2005 rather than 1995 when I was referring to a person who joined the 49er organization in 2005?

I get the feeling you just typed all of that to be an asshole.

Me being an ass hole? Mistaken post 1995? So you mistakenly post it on your reply on #9...

"...I am not sure but the guy has been a part of the 49ers player personnel machine since 1995. He has been a part of a lot of fail..."

and on your reply on#21


"...I am not blaming him for everything going back to 2005 but he has been a part of the culture of fail since 1995 along with Marathe and Jed. Baalke and Marathe were player personnel guys in a time when the player personnel decisions weren't that great and they got promoted.

I am hoping for improvement but it has been a dysfunctional mess of a front office for a long time and I haven't seen any improvement yet. ..."


So you posting the wrong information twice and me calling you on it makes me an asshole? what does that make you?

 

[sayheykid1]

Me being an ass hole? Mistaken post 1995? So you mistakenly post it on your reply on #9...

"...I am not sure but the guy has been a part of the 49ers player personnel machine since 1995. He has been a part of a lot of fail..."

and on your reply on#21


"...I am not blaming him for everything going back to 2005 but he has been a part of the culture of fail since 1995 along with Marathe and Jed. Baalke and Marathe were player personnel guys in a time when the player personnel decisions weren't that great and they got promoted.

I am hoping for improvement but it has been a dysfunctional mess of a front office for a long time and I haven't seen any improvement yet. ..."


So you posting the wrong information twice and me calling you on it makes me an asshole? what does that make you?

I also mentioned 2005 and that Baalke had been with the Niners for five previous years.

The being an asshole part had to do with how wordy you were (you could have asked if I meant 2005) and because I feel that you knew I had made an honest mistake. If I was wrong about that I apologize.

 

[Flyingiguana]

If that is what you're trying to say then you're including Eddie DeBartolo, Bill Walsh, George Seifert, and Steve Mariucci as being part of the "culture of fail" you stated above...

From 1994 - 97 Seifert was the Head Coach of the Niners. Bill Walsh returned to the 49ers as VP and GM from 1999 - 2001. Mariucci replaced Seifert as HC in 1998 ... DeBartolo lost control of the Team in 2000...

the culture of fail began after our last super bowl win when shanahan left for denver. when walsh came back he improved the situation with some solid drafting and player acquisitions. after that it was downhill in everything.

 

[threelittleturds]

the culture of fail began after our last super bowl win when shanahan left for denver. when walsh came back he improved the situation with some solid drafting and player acquisitions. after that it was downhill in everything.

Nah, the culture of failure began when Dr. York tried to, well, successfully turned his back on the identity that Eddie DeBartelo created for the 49ers. When was that, about 2003? Hiring coaches who didn't care about Bill Walsh's WCO. Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.

 

[deep9er]

Nah, the culture of failure began when Dr. York tried to, well, successfully turned his back on the identity that Eddie DeBartelo created for the 49ers. When was that, about 2003? Hiring coaches who didn't care about Bill Walsh's WCO. Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.

i recall one of the first things Dr. York did was bring Bill Walsh back? Bill Walsh may have first come back as a Consultant, then took over a few years later.

also, John York didn't pursue the 49ers, Eddie lost them. anyways, even if Eddie retained Ownership, who's to say he would've hired the right GM and HC either? also by mid 90's, Eddie would be under the cap rules.

 

[deep9er]

Nah, the culture of failure began when Dr. York tried to, well, successfully turned his back on the identity that Eddie DeBartelo created for the 49ers. When was that, about 2003? Hiring coaches who didn't care about Bill Walsh's WCO. Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.

one more GENERAL comment, i'll never forget seeing Bill Walsh on TV circa late 80's (or was it early 90's?), saying his WCO is long gone. he said it was long gone because defenses were now too quick on the edges.

don't recall him elaborating so IMO.....thats why the "power sweeps" died quickly, those sweeps led by lighter, agile linemen. another common play that died down is the swing pass, the one Craig made a living on.

on the brighter side, we did execute a slant play which was a Walsh staple. its too bad Smith doesn't have timing and anticipation, cause that play could be dangerious against pressure.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Nah, the culture of failure began when Dr. York tried to, well, successfully turned his back on the identity that Eddie DeBartelo created for the 49ers. When was that, about 2003? Hiring coaches who didn't care about Bill Walsh's WCO. Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.

there was a lot of questionable moves prior to that personel wise. the yorks have been an absolute failure, but shanahan should have taken over for siefart. heck rhodes woulda been a better option

 

[FourBeeDen]

"...i recall one of the first things Dr. York did was bring Bill Walsh back? Bill Walsh may have first come back as a Consultant, then took over a few years later.

also, John York didn't pursue the 49ers, Eddie lost them. anyways, even if Eddie retained Ownership, who's to say he would've hired the right GM and HC either? also by mid 90's, Eddie would be under the cap rules..."


There are truths in what Threelittlebird said though. It was in 2003 when Dennis Erickson was hired to replace Mariucci. Erickson's offensive philosophy was totally different form the WCO... Ironically though, Erickson was hired by Terry Donahue who was the hand picked successor of Bill Walsh... But then when Nolan was hired 2 years later, his first OC was Mike McCarthy who employs the WCO

 

[deep9er]

"...i recall one of the first things Dr. York did was bring Bill Walsh back? Bill Walsh may have first come back as a Consultant, then took over a few years later.

also, John York didn't pursue the 49ers, Eddie lost them. anyways, even if Eddie retained Ownership, who's to say he would've hired the right GM and HC either? also by mid 90's, Eddie would be under the cap rules..."


There are truths in what Threelittlebird said though. It was in 2003 when Dennis Erickson was hired to replace Mariucci. Erickson's offensive philosophy was totally different form the WCO... Ironically though, Erickson was hired by Terry Donahue who was the hand picked successor of Bill Walsh... But then when Nolan was hired 2 years later, his first OC was Mike McCarthy who employs the WCO

yes, if you ONLY start from around 2003 no argument here. but i didn't take it as starting from 2003 because of the last sentence...."Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.". this doesn't imply skip the return of Walsh?

if i read it wrong, my bad.

 

[FourBeeDen]

yes, if you ONLY start from around 2003 no argument here. but i didn't take it as starting from 2003 because of the last sentence...."Reshaping the 49ers from the DeBartelo 49ers to the York 49ers.". this doesn't imply skip the return of Walsh?

if i read it wrong, my bad.

Well you could argue that during Walsh's tenure as GM, the niners were still employing the WCO. It was after Walsh handed the GM role to Donahue that the Niners change their offensive Philosophy (ie the Dennis Erickson hiring)

 

[deep9er]

Well you could argue that during Walsh's tenure as GM, the niners were still employing the WCO. It was after Walsh handed the GM role to Donahue that the Niners change their offensive Philosophy (ie the Dennis Erickson hiring)

the comment was York turned his back on Eddie's era, or something to that effect. i took it as when York first took over the 49ers so assuming this, how can you say York turned his back on the Eddie era when you sought out and hired Bill Walsh? if your first task as Owner is hire Bill Walsh, thats not turning your back, didn't Bill Walsh make the "Eddie era"?

again, if my assumption is incorrect, i already posted accordingly.

 

[FourBeeDen]

the comment was York turned his back on Eddie's era, or something to that effect. i took it as when York first took over the 49ers so assuming this, how can you say York turned his back on the Eddie era when you sought out and hired Bill Walsh? if your first task as Owner is hire Bill Walsh, thats not turning your back, didn't Bill Walsh make the "Eddie era"?

again, if my assumption is incorrect, i already posted accordingly.

i think we are both reading his post differently...