Skins to release Cobra Kai...

[skinsdad62]

Way actually out kicked his coverage and the gunners couldn't get off blocks. That is trouble for any team not just ours.

yeah , i would buy that if they filled the lanes properly and getting off blocks is what you are supposed to do if you are good isnt it ?

 

[deanpet21]

Breed you are counting preseason kicks? lol. He doesn't get chances b/c the coaching staff has no confidence in him. skinsdad, it happens that gunners get blocked on any team. If Way got more hangtime and less distance the result would of been different.

 

[j_y19]

Breed you are counting preseason kicks? lol. He doesn't get chances b/c the coaching staff has no confidence in him. skinsdad, it happens that gunners get blocked on any team. If Way got more hangtime and less distance the result would of been different.

So you give the gunners a pass on their miscue but you act like reed sold state secrets cause he made a mistake? And why have we not cut way? He admitted to two mistakes that caused a 10 point swing. He flubbed the hold on Kai's miss and he punted a line drive that set up a return td.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The point is Dean he is capable of hitting them, he was also pretty good in college.

Noting your comment about how often game winning 50+ yard field goals are tried I took the best kicker I could think of, Adam Veneteri, and learned that he has attempted all of 42 FGs outside of 50 in 19 seasons. That's only of 2.2 per season. Safe to bet most were not last second variety but I'm not aware that people were quick to get rid of that guy even though he made only 54% outside of 50. Adam Vinatieri: Career Stats at NFL.com

Next I tried the guy who replaced him, Gostkowski. In 10 years he's attempted all of 17, a worse average of 1.7 PER SEASON. Stephen Gostkowski: Career Stats at NFL.com

Now I'm sure you can find a guy who is kicking more, the point is to say you need a kicker to make bombs or he sucks is just plain stupid.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Excerpt

First of all, let’s dispose of the notion that Forbath is one of the most accurate field goal kickers in the game. Last year he was ninth in the NFL among kickers who had enough attempts (16) to qualify. He was good on 24 of 27 attempts, 88.9 percent. That’s fine, but not great (six kickers were over 90 percent) and, really, not very significant. Here’s why.

Let’s look at the Rams’ Greg Zuerlein, who ranked 26th with a field goals success percentage of 80.0. Is Forbath a better field goal kicker? Well, if Zuerlein had the same number of attempts as Forbath last year, he would have made 22, two fewer than Forbath. Depending on when those missed field goals happened, they could have been costly.

But if you look closer, you’ll see that Zuerlein attempted seven field goals of 50 yards or longer and made five of them. Forbath had zero attempts from 50 or longer. So two of Zurlein’s misses came on kicks that Forbath didn’t even attempt, presumably because they were out of his range. In the third quarter against the Dolphins, the Redskins were up 10-7 and had a fourth down at the Miami 36. With Forbath as their kicker, they punted and got a touchback. With a kicker with a stronger leg like Zuerlein they could have tried a 54-yard field goal and would have had about a 71 percent chance of taking a 13-7 lead that would have changed the complexion of the rest of the game.

Let’s look at the factor that Gruden cited, kickoffs. Last year Forbath had a net kickoff average (gross yards minus return yards and touchbacks X 20 yards) of 40.7 yards. Zuerlein’s average was 44.6. Rounding to the nearest yard line, an average Forbath kickoff ended with the other team taking possession at the 24 while Zuerlein’s ended up at the 20. Big deal? On one individual kick, maybe not. Over the course of a season it adds up.

According to some numbers crunchers who are much smarter than I am, a team that starts a drive that starts on the 24 has a 17.6 percent chance of scoring a touchdown and a 10.9 percent chance of making a field goal. For a team starting on the 20, the TD chances are 16.4 percent and 10.1 for a field goal. The average NFL team kicked off 81 times last year. So on average, following kickoffs the team that kicks to the 24 will allow 14 touchdowns and nine field goals while the team that kicks to the 20 will allow 13 TDs and eight field goals.

You don’t have to be a genius numbers cruncher to figure out that the defense giving up 10 fewer points with a kicker like Zuerlein slightly more than compensates for the six points lose being less “accurate” in field goals than Forbath. If you add in the chance that Zuerlein gives the team to score on an attempt from over 50 yards out the advantage goes to the less “accurate” kicker with the stronger leg.

Looking at it right now, we don’t know if Hopkins will miss a makeable field goal in a clutch situation. But in the big picture, if he can hit on 80 percent of his field goals, give the Redskins a chance to score when they get inside the opponent’s 40, and have opponents starting drives at the 20 more often than not, the move could end up being a net plus for Gruden and the Redskins.

 

[skinsdad62]

Breed you are counting preseason kicks? lol. He doesn't get chances b/c the coaching staff has no confidence in him. skinsdad, it happens that gunners get blocked on any team. If Way got more hangtime and less distance the result would of been different.

G DEE IT dean its the guys job to get off blocks and stay in their lanes period . if they dont do it they get beat and that is what happened . and that is what happens on kick offs too

blaming a guy for "out kicking the coverage" is stupid sure the guy gets a good return but inept discipline gives up the TD

 

[Breed]

Breed you are counting preseason kicks? lol.

And you're doing backflips over a guy who has never made a FG in the NFL.

Dustin Hopkins NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

And to top it off. The kid went to Florida State. Maybe the only outfit in big time football (pros and college) who have been more cursed than the Redskins when it comes to FG kicking.

<beating head on keyboard>

 

[Breed]

Excerpt

First of all, let’s dispose of the notion that Forbath is one of the most accurate field goal kickers in the game. Last year he was ninth in the NFL among kickers who had enough attempts (16) to qualify. He was good on 24 of 27 attempts, 88.9 percent. That’s fine, but not great (six kickers were over 90 percent) and, really, not very significant. Here’s why.

Let’s look at the Rams’ Greg Zuerlein, who ranked 26th with a field goals success percentage of 80.0. Is Forbath a better field goal kicker? Well, if Zuerlein had the same number of attempts as Forbath last year, he would have made 22, two fewer than Forbath. Depending on when those missed field goals happened, they could have been costly.

But if you look closer, you’ll see that Zuerlein attempted seven field goals of 50 yards or longer and made five of them. Forbath had zero attempts from 50 or longer. So two of Zurlein’s misses came on kicks that Forbath didn’t even attempt, presumably because they were out of his range. In the third quarter against the Dolphins, the Redskins were up 10-7 and had a fourth down at the Miami 36. With Forbath as their kicker, they punted and got a touchback. With a kicker with a stronger leg like Zuerlein they could have tried a 54-yard field goal and would have had about a 71 percent chance of taking a 13-7 lead that would have changed the complexion of the rest of the game.

Let’s look at the factor that Gruden cited, kickoffs. Last year Forbath had a net kickoff average (gross yards minus return yards and touchbacks X 20 yards) of 40.7 yards. Zuerlein’s average was 44.6. Rounding to the nearest yard line, an average Forbath kickoff ended with the other team taking possession at the 24 while Zuerlein’s ended up at the 20. Big deal? On one individual kick, maybe not. Over the course of a season it adds up.

According to some numbers crunchers who are much smarter than I am, a team that starts a drive that starts on the 24 has a 17.6 percent chance of scoring a touchdown and a 10.9 percent chance of making a field goal. For a team starting on the 20, the TD chances are 16.4 percent and 10.1 for a field goal. The average NFL team kicked off 81 times last year. So on average, following kickoffs the team that kicks to the 24 will allow 14 touchdowns and nine field goals while the team that kicks to the 20 will allow 13 TDs and eight field goals.

You don’t have to be a genius numbers cruncher to figure out that the defense giving up 10 fewer points with a kicker like Zuerlein slightly more than compensates for the six points lose being less “accurate” in field goals than Forbath. If you add in the chance that Zuerlein gives the team to score on an attempt from over 50 yards out the advantage goes to the less “accurate” kicker with the stronger leg.

Looking at it right now, we don’t know if Hopkins will miss a makeable field goal in a clutch situation. But in the big picture, if he can hit on 80 percent of his field goals, give the Redskins a chance to score when they get inside the opponent’s 40, and have opponents starting drives at the 20 more often than not, the move could end up being a net plus for Gruden and the Redskins.

I don't know who Tandler is, but if he covered the Skins throughout the 2000s and has the gall to say FG accuracy is overrated. He's an idiot.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I don't know who Tandler is, but if he covered the Skins throughout the 2000s and has the gall to say FG accuracy is overrated. He's an idiot.

Always 2 sides to a decision

Tandler can be hit or miss at times but I think he raises some good points. Did you read the whole article? At the beginning he DOES map out how many times Kai has been clutch for this team with winning FGs.

I'm going to wait and see. This move could be a disaster, could be a good one too

 

[Breed]

it happens that gunners get blocked on any team.

True. But the Skins gunners seem to be getting blocked almost twice as much as gunners for any other teams. If the Skins coverage teams have given up 9 ret TDs and no other coverage teams has given up more than 5 ret TDs in the same span.

If Way got more hangtime and less distance the result would of been different.

Not if Skins gunners are too busy having the shit blocked outta their asses.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

True. But the Skins gunners seem to be getting blocked almost twice as much as gunners for any other teams. If the Skins coverage teams have given up 9 ret TDs and no other coverage teams has given up more than 5 ret TDs in the same span.



Not if Skins gunners are too busy having the shit blocked outta their asses.

Losing Niles and Hayward (again) is so damn frustrating. This team can't seem to catch a break on STs.

 

[Breed]

Always 2 sides to a decision

Tandler can be hit or miss at times but I think he raises some good points. Did you read the whole article? At the beginning he DOES map out how many times Kai has been clutch for this team with winning FGs.

I'm going to wait and see. This move could be a disaster, could be a good one too

True far as there being 2 sides to every story, but the Skins have had serious issues, really serious issues. When it comes to making FGs in the Snyder era. And like Dave says, its not just long FGs either. Skins FG kickers have habitually fubared 40 something yarders, 30 something yarders and their share of twenty someting yarders in the 2000s.

I understand the KO issue Kai was having, has had for a few years now. But speaking of those two sides to every story. FG accuracy also equals FG dependability.

Have the Skins at least put this Hopkins kid through the paces? Brought him in for a tryout and the like?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

True far as there being 2 sides to every story, but the Skins have had serious issues, really serious issues. When it comes to making FGs in the Snyder era. And like Dave says, its not just long FGs either. Skins FG kickers have habitually fubared 40 something yarders, 30 something yarders and their share of twenty someting yarders in the 2000s.

I understand the KO issue Kai was having, has had for a few years now. But speaking of those two sides to every story. FG accuracy also equals FG dependability.

Have the Skins at least put this Hopkins kid through the paces? Brought him in for a tryout and the like?

Can't disagree with you on any of your points. FG accuracy was a nightmare before Kai.

Haven't seen too much yet on Dustin but will share as it is revealed. And we will get to see first hand Sunday.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I think this excerpt from Keim succinctly sums up why Skins released Kai are are going to roll the dice with Dustin


Excerpt

ASHBURN, Va. -- If the Washington Redskins had not lost coverage players such as Niles Paul and Adam Hayward, they might have lived with Kai Forbath’s short kickoffs. But after one game, and with a dangerous returner up Sunday, they needed more. And there’s good reason to do so: starting field position matters greatly.

The Redskins released Forbath Monday, signing Dustin Hopkins, who has a strong leg for kickoffs but has never kicked in an NFL game. Forbath struggled to reach the end zone and often when he did, they were returnable line-drive kicks.

In another move, they’ll use Rashad Ross on kick returns -- all in an effort to squeeze out extra yards. When you lose an offensive talent like DeSean Jackson and when you lack many playmakers, every yard matters. Ross has blazing speed and can perhaps be a bigger threat as a kick returner than Chris Thompson, who is far from slow and returned one kickoff for 36 yards in the opener. But Ross is faster and, they hope, more dangerous -- and a possible threat to provide the extra chunk yards they desire.

 

[j_y19]

I don't know who Tandler is, but if he covered the Skins throughout the 2000s and has the gall to say FG accuracy is overrated. He's an idiot.

What's misleading is hE uses as his example an NFL vet kicker that still makes 80+% of his kicks. But that's not who we signed. We signed an unproven rookie who we have never seen kick in any NFL game. Sure maybe the difference between 80 and 86% isn't that great, but when the kid misses his first xtra point or shanks a couple of 35 yarders and only makes 70% of his kicks it will make a difference. Especially on this team where we have issues punching it into the end zone and settle for fgs more than most. All so we can attempt 3-4 50+ fgs and make one or two. Oh yeah, he can kick it into the end zone so we mask the real problem in that we suck on kick coverage.

If gruden wanted to send a point home by canning Kai, the point would have been better made by firing the ST coach. That would have truly said that no one is safe.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well Goodell got his wish, the extra point has now gotten way more exciting.

 

[deanpet21]

Once again cutting Kai wasn't only for Sunday it stemmed from last year too. Yes Reed and Way made huge blunders in the game and deserve to be called out. No Jy19 you don't cut Way b/c he is one of the best punters in the league. Kai is not even close to be one of the best kickers in the league. I just cant get over the support for Kai on this board.

Im not giving the gunners a pass but Reed should know what the hell he is doing on 4th down coming out of a timeout with the game on the line. I do believe we will be attempting more 50+ Fg b/c Hopkins is now on the roster.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think Dean is right, Kai is not a great kicker. And maybe it's wrong to use our history in assessing current players. But it's pretty hard not to have reservations after we finally found a guy who was money inside of 45 yards after watching so many games lost this way. Again for a team that struggles to score points NOTHING is more deflating than coming up empty after a 9 play 60 yard drive.

 

[j_y19]

Once again cutting Kai wasn't only for Sunday it stemmed from last year too. Yes Reed and Way made huge blunders in the game and deserve to be called out. No Jy19 you don't cut Way b/c he is one of the best punters in the league. Kai is not even close to be one of the best kickers in the league. I just cant get over the support for Kai on this board.

Im not giving the gunners a pass but Reed should know what the hell he is doing on 4th down coming out of a timeout with the game on the line. I do believe we will be attempting more 50+ Fg b/c Hopkins is now on the roster.

I'm not supporting Kai per se, I'm just against making change to something unproven when what you have atleast does some critical things well. Maybe this rookie turns into the next vinateri, I hope so. But he could just as easily fail, most young kickers do their first few times in the league.

As for attempting more long fgs, great. The league average is 4 or 5 50+ yd attempts a year with a 50% success rate. So this guy, if avg, gives us 6-9 more points on long ones a year, but misses 3-4 shorter ones tha Kai makes. Where's the benefit?

A very wise person once told me that you don't run from something, you run to something. We are running from something here and may be very disappointed when we realize we we end up.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm not supporting Kai per se, I'm just against making change to something unproven when what you have atleast does some critical things well. Maybe this rookie turns into the next vinateri, I hope so. But he could just as easily fail, most young kickers do their first few times in the league.

As for attempting more long fgs, great. The league average is 4 or 5 50+ yd attempts a year with a 50% success rate. So this guy, if avg, gives us 6-9 more points on long ones a year, but misses 3-4 shorter ones tha Kai makes. Where's the benefit?

A very wise person once told me that you don't run from something, you run to something. We are running from something here and may be very disappointed when we realize we we end up.

The benefit would be field position and FGs... IF it pans out.