Should it just all be blown up?

[bengaldoug]

The Browns are criminally impatient with coaches. Are the Bengals criminally patient? Has Marvin taken the Bengals as far as he can? It would be difficult to find evidence to the contrary. If this is true, should Zimmer be given a chance? Or should we just start over?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Sometimes you get coach and the are good at the time, but as the team evolves, they are not the right fit anymore.

Dusty Baker is a great example of that with the Reds. Exactly what they needed when he was hired, but exactly why the Reds were held back some this past year. Some guys can only take certain teams so far. That's it.

We've all agreed, that Marvin would make a great GM. I would love to see him in that role, but it's not going to happen.

Unfortunately, that leaves us with keeping Marvin as HC, or risking that Brown will hire a guy and immediately give him the sway/pull that Marvin has spent 8 years prying from Brown.

The fear will always be there while Brown runs the show. If you blow it up with Marvin, you really do risk going back to square one in terms of personel. I honestly believe that. If we had an owner that let his coaches, and had a GM, do their jobs, that would be one thing, but Brown simply isn't like that.

 

[alf8478]

I have a feeling next season will be 2010 all over again minus the diva receivers. It will all come crumbling down

 

[kramer1]

I wanna see an 0-16 season. Let it burn!

 

[cincygrad]

With all of the young, cheap talent on this team it wouldn't make sense to completely blow things up. Going into next year we have:

-- 2 good offensive tackles signed. One decent/cheap guard (Zeitler)
-- 2 good receivers on their first contracts (Jones and AJ) and several other receivers that produce more than their contracts.
-- One good young rb that makes explosive plays.

-- Dunlap and Atkins signed to affordable long term deals.
-- Thompson and Gilberry signed to affordable deals
-- An all-pro LB making next to nothing.
-- A restricted FA linebacker that was good all year (Rey)
-- A solid safety signed at a reasonable level.
-- Three - five decent options at corner all signed at a reasonable price.

That is a very cheap nucleus with plenty of talent.

I know some people hate saying it, but wouldn't it be worth it to know what a good qb could do?

 

[kramer1]

With all of the young, cheap talent on this team it wouldn't make sense to completely blow things up. Going into next year we have:

-- 2 good offensive tackles signed. One decent/cheap guard (Zeitler)
-- 2 good receivers on their first contracts (Jones and AJ) and several other receivers that produce more than their contracts.
-- One good young rb that makes explosive plays.

-- Dunlap and Atkins signed to affordable long term deals.
-- Thompson and Gilberry signed to affordable deals
-- An all-pro LB making next to nothing.
-- A restricted FA linebacker that was good all year (Rey)
-- A solid safety signed at a reasonable level.
-- Three - five decent options at corner all signed at a reasonable price.

That is a very cheap nucleus with plenty of talent.

I know some people hate saying it, but wouldn't it be worth it to know what a good qb could do?

We need, at minimum, to bring in a qb that can actually compete for the starting job with Andy. Andy needs to be on a short leash. Who is that qb? How do we find him? FA or draft? I don't know.

 

[alf8478]

With all of the young, cheap talent on this team it wouldn't make sense to completely blow things up. Going into next year we have:

-- 2 good offensive tackles signed. One decent/cheap guard (Zeitler)
-- 2 good receivers on their first contracts (Jones and AJ) and several other receivers that produce more than their contracts.
-- One good young rb that makes explosive plays.

-- Dunlap and Atkins signed to affordable long term deals.
-- Thompson and Gilberry signed to affordable deals
-- An all-pro LB making next to nothing.
-- A restricted FA linebacker that was good all year (Rey)
-- A solid safety signed at a reasonable level.
-- Three - five decent options at corner all signed at a reasonable price.

That is a very cheap nucleus with plenty of talent.

I know some people hate saying it, but wouldn't it be worth it to know what a good qb could do?

But we're not going to get to find out

 

[cincygrad]

We need, at minimum, to bring in a qb that can actually compete for the starting job with Andy. Andy needs to be on a short leash. Who is that qb? How do we find him? FA or draft? I don't know.

The FA market is a mess. The most intriguing candidates are Matt Casssel, Josh Freeman, Josh McCown or Michael Vick. That's a shit platter right there.

Drafting a qb would be interesting -- It might make the team completely implode. Then again, this team might implode anyway if they lose all confidence in coaching and qb play.

 

[NCBengal]

This is why I think we are in a pickle with QB. No good free agents, etc. But I have to be honest, look what a new coach and QB coach have done for Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton... wonder if we need to make some adjustments there.

We have to draft another QB though and groom him. I would love to grab AJ McCarron honestly and see what he could do. But not sure he is worth #1 or #2 pick.

 

[Cincyfan78]

This is why I think we are in a pickle with QB. No good free agents, etc. But I have to be honest, look what a new coach and QB coach have done for Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton... wonder if we need to make some adjustments there.

We have to draft another QB though and groom him. I would love to grab AJ McCarron honestly and see what he could do. But not sure he is worth #1 or #2 pick.

A coach that starts to hold Dalton accountable in practice and in games would be a HUGE start.

Maybe Jordan Palmer is still out there?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Outside looking in

A HC from the DEF side of the ball isjust not going to look as sexy as an OFC minded HC...BB is the only one to pull that off in this era.

Lewis...I really have no clue from a 4 or 5 game a year viewpoint, but he has been the guy to stabilize the franchise imo. Can he take it the next step? idk...I have the same feeling about Smith in ATL.

I can say Gruden is not the OC I would want.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This is why I think we are in a pickle with QB. No good free agents, etc. But I have to be honest, look what a new coach and QB coach have done for Phillip Rivers and Cam Newton... wonder if we need to make some adjustments there.

We have to draft another QB though and groom him. I would love to grab AJ McCarron honestly and see what he could do. But not sure he is worth #1 or #2 pick.

I think the McCarron you saw @ AL is about as good as it going to get...surrounded by 1st round picks on the OL, DEF, and RB his entire career there...never asked to carry the team.

I would take Mettenberger in the 2nd round (probably a 1ate 1st before the ACL)...much higher ceiling.

 

[cincygrad]

I think the McCarron you saw @ AL is about as good as it going to get...surrounded by 1st round picks on the OL, DEF, and RB his entire career there...never asked to carry the team.

I would take Mettenberger in the 2nd round (probably a 1ate 1st before the ACL)...much higher ceiling.

I think just about everyone on this board would be happy if we took Mettenberger. I think that kid has what it takes and the ACL doesn't bother me - He wasn't winning games with his legs anyway.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think just about everyone on this board would be happy if we took Mettenberger. I think that kid has what it takes and the ACL doesn't bother me - He wasn't winning games with his legs anyway.

He kind of reminds me a bit of a Ben R type. Big guy, extends plays. I thought he had a good arm, though I'll admit I didn't see a ton of games with him.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

He kind of reminds me a bit of a Ben R type. Big guy, extends plays. I thought he had a good arm, though I'll admit I didn't see a ton of games with him.

GA guy here...recruited to UGA, got in some trouble off the field and essentially was booted...straighten himself up and transferred to LSU...character issues seem to be a thing of the past...game, stature wise, yes, about 6'5 250, but not as nifty feet as Ben. Big arm...imo more Flacco like, but more outspoken.

I like his game for the NFL...If not for the ACL I think he would be the 4th QB off the board in the 1st round...agree his legs are not why you're drafting him...I like the pick for anyone that needs a potential starter.

 

[bengaldoug]

I would love Mettenberger, but I think we are pissing into the wind if we really are to believe that Mike Brown is ready to admit the Dalton experiment a failure. Anyone who can convince him of that, please make that your next immediate assignment. In Dalton, Mike Brown sees a guy who can get him to the playoffs year after year and will come on the cheap. He won't see they guy who has fallen on his face in three straight playoff games including the home game. This is the team who signed Josh fucking Johnson to be the backup. Are they really interested in seeing Dalton face a real challenge for his job?

 

[cincygrad]

I would love Mettenberger, but I think we are pissing into the wind if we really are to believe that Mike Brown is ready to admit the Dalton experiment a failure. Anyone who can convince him of that, please make that your next immediate assignment. In Dalton, Mike Brown sees a guy who can get him to the playoffs year after year and will come on the cheap. He won't see they guy who has fallen on his face in three straight playoff games including the home game. This is the team who signed Josh fucking Johnson to be the backup. Are they really interested in seeing Dalton face a real challenge for his job?

Well, under the new CBA, Mike might be willing to go for another young qb. It used to be that you had to pay these young qbs a lot of money. Now you get the first four years for super cheap. Maybe he lets Andy play out his deal and fail while having the next young guy in the wings?

I realize it's not happening -- Just mentioning that it's not out of the question due to money (as it would have been in the past).

 

[Cincyfan78]

Well, under the new CBA, Mike might be willing to go for another young qb. It used to be that you had to pay these young qbs a lot of money. Now you get the first four years for super cheap. Maybe he lets Andy play out his deal and fail while having the next young guy in the wings?

I realize it's not happening -- Just mentioning that it's not out of the question due to money (as it would have been in the past).

It actually makes perfect sense to draft a QB this year.

You don't have to extend Dalton right now, you can let him play out his contract.

You draft a guy you like, if you can, and let him sit and learn the offense.

Dalton will play out his final year, and either do enough to earn an extension, or not. If Dalton asks for ridiculous amounts of money, you already have a guy with 1 year in the system, so you won't be completely starting from scratch. If you are able to work out a good deal, then you have a decent backup that in another year or 2 you can trade for a low round draft pick.

Eitherway, you are protected. Esepcially, as you said, the salary for a rookie QB now is minimal.

 

[bengaldoug]

Well, under the new CBA, Mike might be willing to go for another young qb. It used to be that you had to pay these young qbs a lot of money. Now you get the first four years for super cheap. Maybe he lets Andy play out his deal and fail while having the next young guy in the wings?

I realize it's not happening -- Just mentioning that it's not out of the question due to money (as it would have been in the past).

It actually makes perfect sense to draft a QB this year.

You don't have to extend Dalton right now, you can let him play out his contract.

You draft a guy you like, if you can, and let him sit and learn the offense.

Dalton will play out his final year, and either do enough to earn an extension, or not. If Dalton asks for ridiculous amounts of money, you already have a guy with 1 year in the system, so you won't be completely starting from scratch. If you are able to work out a good deal, then you have a decent backup that in another year or 2 you can trade for a low round draft pick.

Eitherway, you are protected. Esepcially, as you said, the salary for a rookie QB now is minimal.

You guys are both making lots of sense.....too much sense, I think, for this to ever happen......

 

[cincygrad]

You guys are both making lots of sense.....too much sense, I think, for this to ever happen......

That's precisely why it won't.

We'll draft a qb -- But it will be someone in the 4th or 5th round. A guy with obvious flaws and no real chance to threaten Ginger's position.