Game Thread: Saturday Night Football: Lions @ Cowboys, 12/30/23, 8:15 ET

[jarntt]

I was under the impression that the player themselves must announce their eligibility directly to the ref in this situation. #70 never got close enough to speak to the ref from the videos I've seen. #68 looks like he spoke directly to the ref.

disagree. Watch the video again. The ref is looking right at #70 when he is running onto the field toward the ref. At this same time #68 is much closer to the ref but the ref isn't looking directly at him. If something is stated at that point by #68 (and I'm sure it was) the ref may not have heard it

Also, I have no idea what you guys are reading that makes you think I'm saying anyone spoke to the ref about anyone but themselves

 

[belcherboy]

Yes. He himself admitted they tried to fool the Cowboys. He obviously had miscommunication between the ref and his player and likely because of his attempt to confuse the Cowboys. That doesn't mean they did anything wrong, per se`, but they didn't do all they could to be clear either.

Campbell said he informed the refs, pregame, that they may try that play. They did exactly what they said they would do. The video evidence seems to show that the ref didn't even speak to #70, but clearly he spoke to #68. I was under the impression that the player has to self identify himself to the official as being eligible. I haven't seen video of that with #70 yet.

It's just weird that people want to blame the Lions or their coach here. The NFL seems to be clear that it was a mess up on the officiating side.

 

[fightinfunbags]

disagree. Watch the video again. The ref is looking right at #70 when he is running onto the field toward the ref. At this same time #68 is much closer to the ref but the ref isn't looking directly at him. If something is stated at that point by #68 (and I'm sure it was) the ref may not have heard it

Also, I have no idea what you guys are reading that makes you think I'm saying anyone spoke to the ref about anyone but themselves

70 never says anything to the ref. If your argument is crowd noise how the fuck does the official hear the player that never gets close to him but doesn’t hear the player that’s closer and addressing him?!?!? This is pure incompetence.

There’s really nothing wrong with saying, the refs fucked up and the Cowboys caught a break.

 

[belcherboy]

disagree. Watch the video again. The ref is looking right at #70 when he is running onto the field toward the ref. At this same time #68 is much closer to the ref but the ref isn't looking directly at him. If something is stated at that point by #68 (and I'm sure it was) the ref may not have heard it

Also, I have no idea what you guys are reading that makes you think I'm saying anyone spoke to the ref about anyone but themselves

Please show me the video where #70 speaks directly to the official. Again, I was under the impression that the player must personally self identify with the ref that he is an eligible receiver. I had heard this is the rule so there won't be confusion about the number like we see in this game.

From what I've seen #70 comes late to the conversation and the ref is already leaving. It doesn't matter if he looks at his player as they enter the area if there isn't a conversation. I could be wrong about that rule though.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Please show me the video where #70 speaks directly to the official. Again, I was under the impression that the player must personally self identify with the ref that he is an eligible receiver. I had heard this is the rule so there won't be confusion about the number like we see in this game.

From what I've seen #70 comes late to the conversation and the ref is already leaving. It doesn't matter if he looks at his player as they enter the area if there isn't a conversation. I could be wrong about that rule though.

You’re dead on. One player can’t report another player as an eligible receiver. It has to be the player himself.

 

[jarntt]

Campbell said he informed the refs, pregame, that they may try that play. They did exactly what they said they would do. The video evidence seems to show that the ref didn't even speak to #70, but clearly he spoke to #68. I was under the impression that the player has to self identify himself to the official as being eligible. I haven't seen video of that with #70 yet.

It's just weird that people want to blame the Lions or their coach here. The NFL seems to be clear that it was a mess up on the officiating side.

Do you have that audio as well? What exactly did Campbell say? What exactly did the OL say as they came on the field. #68 might have been speaking but did the ref see and hear him is all that matters.

Who is blaming the Lions? EVERYONE I have ever seen discuss the play is blaming the refs. What I am saying is the Lions didn't do all they could to make sure there was no confusion nor miscommunication and with the crowd noise it was likely worse. Campbell himself admitted he was trying to confuse Dallas and obviously he was if he brought it up before the game, but the Ref wasn't even in that meeting and he was the only official involved.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

disagree. Watch the video again. The ref is looking right at #70 when he is running onto the field toward the ref. At this same time #68 is much closer to the ref but the ref isn't looking directly at him. If something is stated at that point by #68 (and I'm sure it was) the ref may not have heard it

Also, I have no idea what you guys are reading that makes you think I'm saying anyone spoke to the ref about anyone but themselves

Yeah, that's what I saw too. And that was the point of my earlier post. The ref was basically ignoring the guy that was making the gesture declaring himself and 70 never made the gesture from what I saw. The ref just fucked up but the Lions still got an extra 2 cracks at it and still had a real good play that only failed because Goff fucked up the throw. Bottom line is it's done though and there's no way to correct it. But that ref needs to be reprimanded and/or demoted because he didn't do his job.

 

[belcherboy]

Do you have that audio as well? What exactly did Campbell say? What exactly did the OL say as they came on the field. #68 might have been speaking but did the ref see and hear him is all that matters.

Who is blaming the Lions? EVERYONE I have ever seen discuss the play is blaming the refs. What I am saying is the Lions didn't do all they could to make sure there was no confusion nor miscommunication and with the crowd noise it was likely worse. Campbell himself admitted he was trying to confuse Dallas and obviously he was if he brought it up before the game, but the Ref wasn't even in that meeting and he was the only official involved.

You just said that Campbell should have done things differently...i.e. he shares some of the blame for how things went down. I just don't see that.

Again, no audio has been shared, but there is PLENTY of video. Please show me where #70 speaks with any official prior to that play. We have tons of video angles and I have not seen one video showing that conversation. I believe that is the rule. A player must self identify as being an eligible receiver or the refs will not announce it. For some reason the refs announced his number though.

 

[jarntt]

Please show me the video where #70 speaks directly to the official. Again, I was under the impression that the player must personally self identify with the ref that he is an eligible receiver. I had heard this is the rule so there won't be confusion about the number like we see in this game.

From what I've seen #70 comes late to the conversation and the ref is already leaving. It doesn't matter if he looks at his player as they enter the area if there isn't a conversation. I could be wrong about that rule though.

Stop commenting on what I write if you don't even read it.

Watch when #70 first enters the screen from the sideline at the 50 second mark. The ref seems to be looking at him and not the guys right in front of him. It's from high above so who knows but this is the only video I watched so it's possible a better view is out there. But you aren't looking for it or showing it to me.


Regardless for the 50th time, I don't really give a crap because to me all that matters is the ref didn't announce it so Dallas didn't cover him. If the ref announced #68 as eligible the play might have gone very differently.

 

[jarntt]

Yeah, that's what I saw too. And that was the point of my earlier post. The ref was basically ignoring the guy that was making the gesture declaring himself and 70 never made the gesture from what I saw. The ref just fucked up but the Lions still got an extra 2 cracks at it and still had a real good play that only failed because Goff fucked up the throw. Bottom line is it's done though and there's no way to correct it. But that ref needs to be reprimanded and/or demoted because he didn't do his job.

Not only am I not disagreeing with the bolded, it's what I am saying.
The ref screwed up. I'm just trying to figure out why he didn't hear #68 report and did what he did.

 

[jarntt]

You just said that Campbell should have done things differently...i.e. he shares some of the blame for how things went down. I just don't see that.

Again, no audio has been shared, but there is PLENTY of video. Please show me where #70 speaks with any official prior to that play. We have tons of video angles and I have not seen one video showing that conversation. I believe that is the rule. A player must self identify as being an eligible receiver or the refs will not announce it. For some reason the refs announced his number though.

Oh FFS just forget it. You are obviously upset and aren't even going to read anything I'm saying and are just going to argue

 

[fightinfunbags]

Stop commenting on what I write if you don't even read it.

Watch when #70 first enters the screen from the sideline at the 50 second mark. The ref seems to be looking at him and not the guys right in front of him. It's from high above so who knows but this is the only video I watched so it's possible a better view is out there. But you aren't looking for it or showing it to me.


Regardless for the 50th time, I don't really give a crap because to me all that matters is the ref didn't announce it so Dallas didn't cover him. If the ref announced #68 as eligible the play might have gone very differently.

The official nods directly at Decker.

 

[Mebert]

In my dream world in the playoffs, the Cowboys and Lions meet back up, and when the NFL is announcing the officiating crew it is like a WWE-style villain walk as they call on Brad Allen. The ultimate fuck you to the fans!

 

[belcherboy]

Stop commenting on what I write if you don't even read it.

Watch when #70 first enters the screen from the sideline at the 50 second mark. The ref seems to be looking at him and not the guys right in front of him. It's from high above so who knows but this is the only video I watched so it's possible a better view is out there. But you aren't looking for it or showing it to me.


Regardless for the 50th time, I don't really give a crap because to me all that matters is the ref didn't announce it so Dallas didn't cover him. If the ref announced #68 as eligible the play might have gone very differently.

The video isn't showing. Does #70 speak to the ref? Do you see that in that video? If not, then the refs didn't follow the rule. It doesn't matter if the ref is looking at him or the hot looking girl in row #1, the rule is that he has to personally identify himself to the ref. I still haven't seen a video where he even gets close enough to the ref to do that.

It does matter as it was a penalty against Detroit that backed them up. If they did everything correct, they should not have been penalized. Who knows if they would have scored, but they were unfairly penalized from it, if indeed they did everything correct (which by the NFL reaction, it seems clear they did).

 

[belcherboy]

Oh FFS just forget it. You are obviously upset and aren't even going to read anything I'm saying and are just going to argue

I'm not at all upset. These type of mistakes happen. Nothing can change it now. If I've offended you, I'm sorry. That wasn't my intent.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Again just another of many fuck ups by the Lions coach

He comes out and admits he was trying to confuse and trick the Cowboys.

He did it so well he tricked and confused the refs and the Cowboys

If the Cowboys would have known 68 was able to catch a pass they most likely have that taken care of knowing the risks Detroit takes on plays

Lions' Dan Campbell admits trying to confuse Cowboys defense before controversial penalty​

Lions' Dan Campbell admits trying to confuse Cowboys defense before controversial penalty

Detroit Lions head coach Dan Campbell admits he was trying to fool the Dallas Cowboys defense ahead of the controversial penalty in their game Saturday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[jarntt]

The video isn't showing. Does #70 speak to the ref? Do you see that in that video? If not, then the refs didn't follow the rule. It doesn't matter if the ref is looking at him or the hot looking girl in row #1, the rule is that he has to personally identify himself to the ref. I still haven't seen a video where he even gets close enough to the ref to do that.

It does matter as it was a penalty against Detroit that backed them up. If they did everything correct, they should not have been penalized. Who knows if they would have scored, but they were unfairly penalized from it, if indeed they did everything correct (which by the NFL reaction, it seems clear they did).

No one knows. that is why I'm trying to figure out what might have actually happened. The ref didn't cheat for Dallas. So either he didn't hear or he got confused. I don't know which. But, common sense says #70 did speak to the ref as he was running on the field since the ref announced him as eligible!!! Why the ref didn't hear or announce #68 is the great unknown.

But It has nothing to do with the penalty backing them up. If he was announced there would have been no penalty and there would have been no backing them up. Wilson had no one to cover but Decker since the RB went the other way and watching it again it seems Bell had the RB on that side so Wilson literally had no one to cover. So it is in no way a stretch to say Wilson would have covered Decker on the play if he was announced since he was right in front of him and no other eligible receiver was even on that side after Reynolds crossed. There is no way to say whether the play would have been successful or not and nor am I making a comment on that.

 

[UK Cowboy]

It was bull shit. The infraction was a hold by Hendershot. I don’t know how they called a trip. It should have been 1st and 20 and not 1st and 25.

You're full of shit lmao

 

[Tahuyaman]

I was under the impression that the player themselves must announce their eligibility directly to the ref in this situation. #70 never got close enough to speak to the ref from the videos I've seen. #68 looks like he spoke directly to the ref.

He was right next to the ref when he reported. Goff. In the post game interview said that has standing right there listening. Was he lying?

 

[belcherboy]

No one knows. that is why I'm trying to figure out what might have actually happened. The ref didn't cheat for Dallas. So either he didn't hear or he got confused. I don't know which. But, common sense says #70 did speak to the ref as he was running on the field since the ref announced him as eligible!!! Why the ref didn't hear or announce #68 is the great unknown.

But It has nothing to do with the penalty backing them up. If he was announced there would have been no penalty and there would have been no backing them up. Wilson had no one to cover but Decker since the RB went the other way and watching it again it seems Bell had the RB on that side so Wilson literally had no one to cover. So it is in no way a stretch to say Wilson would have covered Decker on the play if he was announced since he was right in front of him and no other eligible receiver was even on that side after Reynolds crossed. There is no way to say whether the play would have been successful or not and nor am I making a comment on that.

I know the ref didn't cheat for Dallas, that's why I've said the ref made a mistake and that happens.

If #70 did talk to the ref, why did the NFL punish the ref? It's clear that he didn't follow the protocol.

It affected the game in a big way. It backed them up 5 yards on the two point conversion. To act like that doesn't make a difference is disingenuous. It doesn't mean they complete the conversion, but it made a huge difference in that play. That is why the punishment came down by the NFL. If this happens in the 3rd quarter, nothing probably happens.