Game Thread: Saturday Night Football: Lions @ Cowboys, 12/30/23, 8:15 ET

[belcherboy]

I don't know exactly because I can't hear the conversation that took place on the field. Is there audio of it? My understanding is that SOP is you make a hand gesture to your uniform number to eliminate any confusion. Was that done? Regardless, AGAIN, if everything was done correctly which seems to be what you are saying should have been done, that includes the ref announcing Decker as eligible. If Decker was announced as eligible the outcome may have been different.

What I've heard is they didn't announce #68 eligible, but announced #70. It was clear from the videos I've seen that Goff sent Decker over to make it known that he was the eligible receiver. It was also shown that he went directly to the ref. #70 came onto the field but arrived to the discussion after the ref had already left. The refs announced that #70 was the eligible receiver, so there was nothing that could be done after that occurred. I haven't heard any audio, but they usually have the field all mic'd up. You'd think we would have some audio from it by now, especially if the Lions purposely said the wrong number.

From the video standpoint, it looks like the Lions did everything they were suppose to do. From a logic standpoint, I don't see why they would purposely give the wrong number to the refs, as it would easily be refuted by the opposing team after the play. From a punishment standpoint, why would the NFL discipline that ref team?

I think the ref made a mistake, and that happens in sports. It's not a big deal, but it could have cost the Lions that game and likely a home playoff game (although they would have to win the first game).

At least that is my best guess as to what happened.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Regardless of what defense you are in, you are supposed to be aware of and you have certain responsibilities. Your responsibilities don't include covering an ineligible OL, which as far as the Cowboys knew, Decker was, because he wasn't announced as eligible.

If the defense knew Decker was ineligible why do two players react to his route?

Also, watch Bland covering Reynolds (and carry him across the field) and let me know if you think it is a pure zone coverage. It's a little less clear with St Brown on the other side because he never leaves what could be the DBs area. If Decker were announced it seems Wilson would have no one but him to cover and might have done so

I didn’t call it a pure zone. On the defensive right side of the formation, where Decker was, they’re running zone.

 

[Mebert]

What I've heard is they didn't announce #68 eligible, but announced #70. It was clear from the videos I've seen that Goff sent Decker over to make it known that he was the eligible receiver. It was also shown that he went directly to the ref. #70 came onto the field but arrived to the discussion after the ref had already left. The refs announced that #70 was the eligible receiver, so there was nothing that could be done after that occurred. I haven't heard any audio, but they usually have the field all mic'd up. You'd think we would have some audio from it by now, especially if the Lions purposely said the wrong number.

From the video standpoint, it looks like the Lions did everything they were suppose to do. From a logic standpoint, I don't see why they would purposely give the wrong number to the refs, as it would easily be refuted by the opposing team after the play. From a punishment standpoint, why would the NFL discipline that ref team?

I think the ref made a mistake, and that happens in sports. It's not a big deal, but it could have cost the Lions that game and likely a home playoff game (although they would have to win the first game).

At least that is my best guess as to what happened.

Everyone agrees the ref screwed up. The main issue at this point to me is the refs don't have any accountability when they screw up. I think it contributes as much to the state of NFL officials as not having full-time employees. The officials have become the story so many times this year the league should be embarrassed by it, but instead, they just hunker down more and deny there is anything wrong.

2 bad calls should not be the main focus of a great game, this is all terrible for the league. It won't change until the officials are held accountable to the same degree as the players and coaches.

 

[jarntt]

What I've heard is they didn't announce #68 eligible, but announced #70. It was clear from the videos I've seen that Goff sent Decker over to make it known that he was the eligible receiver. It was also shown that he went directly to the ref. #70 came onto the field but arrived to the discussion after the ref had already left. The refs announced that #70 was the eligible receiver, so there was nothing that could be done after that occurred. I haven't heard any audio, but they usually have the field all mic'd up. You'd think we would have some audio from it by now, especially if the Lions purposely said the wrong number.

From the video standpoint, it looks like the Lions did everything they were suppose to do. From a logic standpoint, I don't see why they would purposely give the wrong number to the refs, as it would easily be refuted by the opposing team after the play. From a punishment standpoint, why would the NFL discipline that ref team?

I think the ref made a mistake, and that happens in sports. It's not a big deal, but it could have cost the Lions that game and likely a home playoff game (although they would have to win the first game).

At least that is my best guess as to what happened.

I'm not saying the refs handled it right at all. I think it is clear it was mishandled. My point is that if they did handle it correctly, they would have announced Decker and he likely wouldn't have been ignored.

Another thing I noticed was if you watch the video of the players moving towards the ref, the ref seems to be looking right at #70 as he is running onto the field and not #68 even though #68 is much closer to him. I re-watched the play on my DVR but they were showing a replay, but the crowd noise was very high and it's possible the ref didn't hear what any of them said and went by the fact that the other two were already on the field and #70 stood out because he was running on from the sideline and thus caught his attention.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I'm not saying the refs handled it right at all. I think it is clear it was mishandled. My point is that if they did handle it correctly, they would have announced Decker and he likely wouldn't have been ignored.

Another thing I noticed was if you watch the video of the players moving towards the ref, the ref seems to be looking right at #70 as he is running onto the field and not #68 even though #68 is much closer to him. I re-watched the play on my DVR but they were showing a replay, but the crowd noise was very high and it's possible the ref didn't hear what any of them said and went by the fact that the other two were already on the field and #70 stood out because he was running on from the sideline and thus caught his attention.

It’s impossible for a player to report another player as being eligible if they have an ineligible number. The player themselves has to report. That is the rule so that these kinds of mistakes don’t happen.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Fwiw, the replay I saw showed Decker rubbing his number to declare eligible ( although it was kinda subtle) and 70 never did and the ref seemed oblivious to the gesture. 70 basically ran up behind Decker and Sewell and the ref was already going over to the defensive huddle.The ref clearly wasn't paying attention or doing his due diligence and just assumed something based on 70 coming in from the sideline. What's done is done but there really is no grey area here, imo. It was a fuck-up plain and simple.

 

[jarntt]

If the defense knew Decker was ineligible why do two players react to his route?

I didn’t call it a pure zone. On the defensive right side of the formation, where Decker was, they’re running zone.

Instincts?

No they aren't. That's where Bland is and he carries the receiver all the way across the field. The safety has no initial coverage responsibility on that side and has the RB if he comes his way

 

[PDay8810]

If the defense knew Decker was ineligible why do two players react to his route?

players react when the ball is thrown in a direction. Not seen on Madden.

hang in there kid

 

[UK Cowboy]

This argument would play better if the Cowboys were in man and not zone. 6 bites on play fake and then reacts to him and gets depth. Anyway this gets sliced we come back to the same outcome. The Lions got screwed by the utter incompetence of an officiating crew being unable to manage a game correctly.

You can't assume the Cowboys wouldn't account for him because they were in zone. The Lions scored 19 points in the game, it's not like they scored 50. The fact that they tried what they did proves scoring at the end wasn't a given. And why not just have 68 be the only person go to the refs and declare instead of several guys run up to the ref and try and trick the Cowboys(which is nonsense in and of itself because the refs must tell the Cowboys anyone who declares). Good news for the Lions... the deception worked. They confused the refs lol. Maybe their bonehead coach should have kicked the extra point on the next play...or the play after that. Campbell is more to blame than the refs

 

[jarntt]

It’s impossible for a player to report another player as being eligible if they have an ineligible number. The player themselves has to report. That is the rule so that these kinds of mistakes don’t happen.

I don't understand what you are saying. re-read what I wrote. I'm not saying that is what happened. I'm saying the ref might have noticed #70 because he was running onto the field towards him and thus more conspicuous and not noticed #68. Seems odd with #68 right in his face but the ref was looking at #70 and then announced #70.

 

[PDay8810]

somebody had a bad new years day weekend

 

[belcherboy]

Some times you can get too smart for your own good Coach Campbell.

I'm not saying the refs handled it right at all. I think it is clear it was mishandled. My point is that if they did handle it correctly, they would have announced Decker and he likely wouldn't have been ignored.

You insinuated that Campbell had something to do with this mess up. I don't understand that criticism. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Lions told that ref the wrong number. You even admit it was mishandled, as does the NFL. The refs are paid handsomely to handle these situations, and they failed. I guess I just don't understand those who say that Lions screwed up somehow here.

 

[belcherboy]

I'm saying the ref might have noticed #70 because he was running onto the field towards him and thus more conspicuous and not noticed #68. Seems odd with #68 right in his face but the ref was looking at #70 and then announced #70.

I was under the impression that the player themselves must announce their eligibility directly to the ref in this situation. #70 never got close enough to speak to the ref from the videos I've seen. #68 looks like he spoke directly to the ref.

 

[Mebert]

You insinuated that Campbell had something to do with this mess up. I don't understand that criticism. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Lions told that ref the wrong number. You even admit it was mishandled, as does the NFL. The refs are paid handsomely to handle these situations, and they failed. I guess I just don't understand those who say that Lions screwed up somehow here.

For sure not on Campbell. Lions got coached up on it very well and ran it to perfection. Campbell could not account for Allen.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I don't understand what you are saying. re-read what I wrote. I'm not saying that is what happened. I'm saying the ref might have noticed #70 because he was running onto the field towards him and thus more conspicuous and not noticed #68. Seems odd with #68 right in his face but the ref was looking at #70 and then announced #70.

70 never converses with the official and he never makes the hand signal across his chest to declare himself eligible. There is no plausible explanation as to why 70 was announced and not 68.

In every way, this is the responsibility of the officiating crew. It’s not on Campbell. It’s not on Decker. It’s not on the Lions. The officials fucked up and now it impacts seeding in the NFC.

 

[fightinfunbags]

For sure not on Campbell. Lions got coached up on it very well and ran it to perfection. Campbell could not account for Allen.

Exactly! The only way Campbell is to blame is if one thinks it’s his responsibility to account for the complete incompetence of the officiating crew. That’s a reach.

 

[UK Cowboy]

You insinuated that Campbell had something to do with this mess up. I don't understand that criticism. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Lions told that ref the wrong number. You even admit it was mishandled, as does the NFL. The refs are paid handsomely to handle these situations, and they failed. I guess I just don't understand those who say that Lions screwed up somehow here.

I'm good with going back and replaying it. But let's start it from when Hendershot was called for tripping when it was actually Hutchinson. After half the distance to the goal, the Cowboys run the ball 4 times and either put the game out of reach, or give the ball back to the Lions inside their own 5, needing a TD, with 30 seconds left and no time outs. Good Luck with that. Dallas was only throwing because it was 25 yards to go after the bullcrap penalty

 

[belcherboy]

I'm good with going back and replaying it. But let's start it from when Hendershot was called for tripping when it was actually Hutchinson. After half the distance to the goal, the Cowboys run the ball 4 times and either put the game out of reach, or give the ball back to the Lions inside their own 5, needing a TD, with 30 seconds left and no time outs. Good Luck with that. Dallas was only throwing because it was 25 yards to go after the bullcrap penalty

I don't think they even need to replay it. I'm just addressing those who want to "spread the blame" when it seems that it is clear the refs mishandled the whole situation. I see no evidence that the Lions did anything but follow the rules in this situation. Mistakes happen, and it's not a playoff game, so the Lions live to see another day and hold their playoff hopes in their own hands.

 

[jarntt]

You insinuated that Campbell had something to do with this mess up. I don't understand that criticism. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Lions told that ref the wrong number. You even admit it was mishandled, as does the NFL. The refs are paid handsomely to handle these situations, and they failed. I guess I just don't understand those who say that Lions screwed up somehow here.

Yes. He himself admitted they tried to fool the Cowboys. He obviously had miscommunication between the ref and his player and likely because of his attempt to confuse the Cowboys. That doesn't mean they did anything wrong, per se`, but they didn't do all they could to be clear either.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I'm good with going back and replaying it. But let's start it from when Hendershot was called for tripping when it was actually Hutchinson. After half the distance to the goal, the Cowboys run the ball 4 times and either put the game out of reach, or give the ball back to the Lions inside their own 5, needing a TD, with 30 seconds left and no time outs. Good Luck with that. Dallas was only throwing because it was 25 yards to go after the bullcrap penalty

It was bull shit. The infraction was a hold by Hendershot. I don’t know how they called a trip. It should have been 1st and 20 and not 1st and 25.