Run/pass split

[jarntt]

After the first two drives of the game, (by my quick count) we had 10 possessions. 9 of those possessions started with a pass. This team's problem has been committing to the run as much as it has been inability to run. You can say it's now Callahan, but I think it's Garrett's offense and it's the philosophy built during the week. Run the fucking ball on first down. If it does work...run it any way in a close game. Even if you are struggling, 2nd and 7 or 8 isn't a bad situation and we need to make teams think we are going to run more so that our passing game in general and play action in particular works better. When you get the defense moving forward at the snap it opens up everything and makes it so much easier to get behind some of these defenders. Instead, they keep everything in front of them and we throw 2 yard outs...It's even worse when we have first and goal from the 5 and don't run it. 2nd and goal from 2 or 3 is a good thing in that situation, but we play like it's a bad thing. I'd love to see us on just one drive that starts at the 5 committ to 3 runs and no passes just to change our apparent fear of running. Obviously it's dumb to decide that ahead of time, but if we had done that the last few years our red zone % would be higher than it has been.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I heard Jaws breaking down everything that is wrong with the Cowboys O, and I couldn't have agreed more. He considers Romo one of the 5 best play action QB's in the game, but you cant run PA when you pass it 40 times and run it 13. We are always throwing against 2 deep with edge rushers coming full bore. The depressing thing is that there are no excuses. Murray is healthy, the OL is healthy, Callahan and JG had a full offseason to plan, and the first road game, a 1 point game, we throw it 3 times as often as we run it

 

[fordman84]

I heard Jaws breaking down everything that is wrong with the Cowboys O, and I couldn't have agreed more. He considers Romo one of the 5 best play action QB's in the game, but you cant run PA when you pass it 40 times and run it 13. We are always throwing against 2 deep with edge rushers coming full bore. The depressing thing is that there are no excuses. Murray is healthy, the OL is healthy, Callahan and JG had a full offseason to plan, and the first road game, a 1 point game, we throw it 3 times as often as we run it

If we had an OL that was above average, we could change everything. The ends can crash the backfield because there is little worry about the middle opening up. There are no holes up the middle anymore. If there is a run being made it is hard fought or a blown defensive assignment. I made mention that a FB could help with this, and I mean one back there on most plays and not a TE that just shifted back for a play. We need to go back to 1TE and a FB, even if it means making one of our TE's a full time FB who can stay in and block or slip out for a screen pass.

You are spot on that defenses can sit two over the top to take away the deep threat. When your front 7 can shut down the run, that leaves 4 to cover the WR's. You won't find continued success with 4 sitting in coverage full time.

 

[UK Cowboy]

If we had an OL that was above average, we could change everything. The ends can crash the backfield because there is little worry about the middle opening up. There are no holes up the middle anymore. If there is a run being made it is hard fought or a blown defensive assignment. I made mention that a FB could help with this, and I mean one back there on most plays and not a TE that just shifted back for a play. We need to go back to 1TE and a FB, even if it means making one of our TE's a full time FB who can stay in and block or slip out for a screen pass.

You are spot on that defenses can sit two over the top to take away the deep threat. When your front 7 can shut down the run, that leaves 4 to cover the WR's. You won't find continued success with 4 sitting in coverage full time.

I couldn't agree more about the fullback. All the talk about balancing the running game, and we don't have a damn FB SMH. The sad part is, there were two or three straight up bulldozers that were there to be had in FA. I dont care if we average 3 yards a carry, rushing attempts per game has been the recipe for success in the NFL for the last 50 years, even with all the rules favoring the pass, it still is.

 

[fordman84]

I couldn't agree more about the fullback. All the talk about balancing the running game, and we don't have a damn FB SMH. The sad part is, there were two or three straight up bulldozers that were there to be had in FA. I dont care if we average 3 yards a carry, rushing attempts per game has been the recipe for success in the NFL for the last 50 years, even with all the rules favoring the pass, it still is.

Run the ball to set up the pass


Football playcalling 101. Some things change, that one doesn't. If you can't run, chances are you won't have a lot of success throwing.

 

[Manster7588]

I don't know why they think Play Action will work when we never run the ball anyway. If Play Action is going to be effective the defense has to at least think will might be running.

 

[fordman84]

I don't know why they think Play Action will work when we never run the ball anyway. If Play Action is going to be effective the defense has to at least think will might be running.

Also, the defense has to worry that the usual DL and LB combo can't stop the run, which they have been. No need to cheat up with the secondary to stop the run that never gets to them.

 

[WFRYE]

If we had an OL that was above average, we could change everything. The ends can crash the backfield because there is little worry about the middle opening up. There are no holes up the middle anymore. If there is a run being made it is hard fought or a blown defensive assignment. I made mention that a FB could help with this, and I mean one back there on most plays and not a TE that just shifted back for a play. We need to go back to 1TE and a FB, even if it means making one of our TE's a full time FB who can stay in and block or slip out for a screen pass.

You are spot on that defenses can sit two over the top to take away the deep threat. When your front 7 can shut down the run, that leaves 4 to cover the WR's. You won't find continued success with 4 sitting in coverage full time.

Good analysis...


The reason that they aren't running more is because they just can't open up any holes to create enough room in the running lanes.. Same as last year. When was the last time they were able to really move people off the ball? They can pass block decently, but have no consistent run blocking to get Murray past the LOS without him trying to run over defenders on just about every running play...which will eventually get him hurt again. The read option keeps defenses on it's heels and unable to zero in which way the run is coming, but a no FB none-read option offense just allows defenders to flow to the direction of the run and anticipate running gaps. It's not like they run a hurry up offense like Denver does to keep defenses on their heels and unable to make substitutions which allows defenses to set for what's coming next....they force defenses into making mental errors.

 

[WFRYE]

This is why I laugh at all the Romo, Frederick, Marinelli, Kiffin, and Callahan savior threads prematurely being created here before they have even accomplished anything in Dallas. At least wait until they actually produce with sustained results out on the field first? I see it every year, especially from Jerry.

 

[WFRYE]

I couldn't agree more about the fullback. All the talk about balancing the running game, and we don't have a damn FB SMH. The sad part is, there were two or three straight up bulldozers that were there to be had in FA. I dont care if we average 3 yards a carry, rushing attempts per game has been the recipe for success in the NFL for the last 50 years, even with all the rules favoring the pass, it still is.

You can still run the ball and have a balanced attack without a FB?? Don't really understand your reasoning there. Better run blocking and better decisions from Murray would do wonders. See Murray dancing a lot back there now, and not just running down hill.

 

[WFRYE]

The Cowboys didn’t exactly thrive with Vickers in the game, rushing for just 79.1 yards per game.

 

[WFRYE]

"Vonta Leach, a three-time Pro Bowler and All-Pro, remains a free agent after the Ravens released him on June 11. Teams like the New York Giants and Miami Dolphins have expressed interest, with Miami being viewed as the "frontrunner." There haven't been any talks according to the Miami Herald. The belief is that Leach wants a multi-year deal whereas the Dolphins are looking for something in the neighborhood of one year.
You'd think that a three-time Pro Bowler and a three-time first-team All-pro fullback would generate more interest, but that's the evolution of the NFL."

 

[fordman84]

You can still run the ball and have a balanced attack without a FB?? Don't really understand your reasoning there. Better run blocking and better decisions from Murray would do wonders. See Murray dancing a lot back there now, and not just running down hill.

Of course you can have a running attack and balance without a FB. This team, or this OL actually, can't. When Emmitt was running he had one of the best OL's in front of him, but we still used the Moose to help even more. That is what we need now, just to make a bad OL look decent.

 

[WFRYE]

Of course you can have a running attack and balance without a FB. This team, or this OL actually, can't. When Emmitt was running he had one of the best OL's in front of him, but we still used the Moose to help even more. That is what we need now, just to make a bad OL look decent.

Sorry, have to disagree here. This is simply not the early 90's now and what has been trending in this league is either the read-option or a NE style wide open passing attack. They had Vickers last season and he didn't help them much. Why do you think they released him? I just don't see this as having a bad OL and more of inexperience in playing together as a unit. Frederick got manhandled by Poe, so are you willing to call him bad now? I highly doubt it. Having a mobile QB that can scramble on the edges would also help, instead of just putting it up every chance he gets. I think the suggesting that having a FB would save this team because of what Emmitt did a long time ago, is a falsehood.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I don't know why they think Play Action will work when we never run the ball anyway. If Play Action is going to be effective the defense has to at least think will might be running.

100% correct. Thats why its number of carries, not yards per that's so important. JG and BC say they get that, then we get 3-4 rushing attempts in the 2nd HALF.

 

[Manster7588]

Good analysis...


The reason that they aren't running more is because they just can't open up any holes to create enough room in the running lanes.. Same as last year. When was the last time they were able to really move people off the ball? They can pass block decently, but have no consistent run blocking to get Murray past the LOS without him trying to run over defenders on just about every running play...which will eventually get him hurt again. The read option keeps defenses on it's heels and unable to zero in which way the run is coming, but a no FB none-read option offense just allows defenders to flow to the direction of the run and anticipate running gaps. It's not like they run a hurry up offense like Denver does to keep defenses on their heels and unable to make substitutions which allows defenses to set for what's coming next....they force defenses into making mental errors.

PLease correct me if I'm wrong. But weren't you on the OL isn't that bad and we must concentrate on the DL trip this last draft?

 

[fordman84]

Sorry, have to disagree here. 1) This is simply not the early 90's now and what has been trending in this league is either the read-option or a NE style wide open passing attack. 2) They had Vickers last season and he didn't help them much. Why do you think they released him? I just don't see this as having a bad OL and more of inexperience in playing together as a unit. 3) Frederick got manhandled by Poe, so are you willing to call him bad now? I highly doubt it. Having a mobile QB that can scramble on the edges would also help, instead of just putting it up every chance he gets. 4) I think the suggesting that having a FB would save this team because of what Emmitt did a long time ago, is a falsehood.

1) Offenses evolve, and defenses react. As defenses get smaller to counter the spread, the team that gets large up front and can pound the ball before everyone else does is the team that gets the wins.

2) Because one FB doesn't work and gets cut, doesn't mean that the position or need is wrong. QCarter was cut as well, doesn't mean we don't need a QB or that a QB with mobility isn't needed.

3) Never called him bad, never said anything about him. I am simply saying that with a bad OL, having a FB full time back there could help them out. An extra TE can help end rushers...as long as interior OL get their shift assignments right. Frederick is a good example, because Poe got one of his sacks because Frederick didn't have his assignment correct. A FB can easily pick up interior blitzes, a TE can't.

4) I never said a FB would save this team because Emmitt had one. I'm saying that if a FB was needed even behind an all-world OL, then there is definitely an argument to have one behind this pieced together joke of a line.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Sorry, have to disagree here. This is simply not the early 90's now and what has been trending in this league is either the read-option or a NE style wide open passing attack. They had Vickers last season and he didn't help them much. Why do you think they released him? I just don't see this as having a bad OL and more of inexperience in playing together as a unit. Frederick got manhandled by Poe, so are you willing to call him bad now? I highly doubt it. Having a mobile QB that can scramble on the edges would also help, instead of just putting it up every chance he gets. I think the suggesting that having a FB would save this team because of what Emmitt did a long time ago, is a falsehood.

It doesn't matter how you run the ball, just that you run it. With all the rules geared for QB's, which teams have been the most successful the last few years? SF, Baltimore, Seattle, Pitt, Houston. When NO won the Super Bowl, they had a great rushing attack. Unless your QB is named Manning, Brady, or Rodgers, you'd better be able to run the ball and play D if you plan on going anywhere

 

[WFRYE]

Waters (just joined team and is he even in football shape now?), Frederick (first year rookie), and Leary (first full season just starting coming back from knee scope.

Yeah, the experience in the interior of their OL is just overwhelming....they should really start to shred the interior of those defenses any day now and open up those running lanes. Some of you dreamers here really need to learn football.

 

[fordman84]

Waters (just joined team and is he even in football shape now?), Frederick (first year rookie), and Leary (first full season just starting coming back from knee scope.

Yeah, the experience in the interior of their OL is just overwhelming....they should really start to shred the interior of those defenses any day now and open up those running lanes. Some of you dreamers here really need to learn football.

What did you read, in this thread, that says anything about us starting to "shred the interior"?