Round 1: #13 DT Da’Ron Payne

[Ruzious]

Given that we got Settle in the 5th, does that change which DT you would have preferred in the 1st - Vea or Payne?

I think Settle is like a poor man's Vea (including fitness issues), so I think the Payne/Settle combo makes more sense than a Vea/Settle combo - so maybe it was fortuitous that Vea was picked before 13.

 

[Ruzious]

And this gents is why Payne was the BPA at 13

Quotable: “I’m a firm believer, whether or not it’s defensive line, whether or not it’s offensive line, the big boys make the little boys look better,” Williams said. “I don’t care how you cut [it] up. Little boys don’t make the big boys look better.

“The offensive line can make the running backs, the quarterbacks and the receiver look pretty good. And the D-Line can make the defensive backs look pretty good. But I haven’t seen any defensive back that made the big boys up front look better.”

Doug Williams

No wonder Doug's gotten so big - he's trying to make Danny look better!

 

[Sharkinva]

Given that we got Settle in the 5th, does that change which DT you would have preferred in the 1st - Vea or Payne?

I think Settle is like a poor man's Vea (including fitness issues), so I think the Payne/Settle combo makes more sense than a Vea/Settle combo - so maybe it was fortuitous that Vea was picked before 13.

If you are asking me?? Nope.

I like Vea, dont get me wrong. But I think Payne brings some things to the table Vea doesnt.

1. I think he will be a three down player in either base or the sub package, not so sure on Vea.
2. He brings a comfort and firmiliarity level with Allen and Anderson that might take a season or two to develop for Vea.

3. Because if 1 and 2, I think he might actually end up being a better fit long term and right off the break.

4. I thought we needed two more legit young talents on the D-line before the draft. So IM thrilled they didnt over think this thing and took both Payne and Settle.

 

[gkekoa]

I would have taken Vea regardless. I think he brings more to the table than Payne...hahaa. Basically, I will take Ngata over most players.

 

[Sharkinva]

I would have taken Vea regardless. I think he brings more to the table than Payne...hahaa. Basically, I will take Ngata over most players.

Oh I wouldnt have been mad at the Vea pick if both were there. But Payne was my first choice.

 

[Sharkinva]

I was talking to anyone reading, but I'm not sure you understood my question, because you said Nope while you're explanation seems to say Yup. Yes would mean that it was fortuitous that we got the Payne/Settle combo.

HOw so?? I wanted Payne over Vea. Getting Settle was a fortuitous bonus in my opinion. BUt with or without Settle, I wanted us to take Payne even if both were there at 13.

Would I have thrown a fit if we took Vea?? NOt at all. BUt my preference was Payne, for the reasons I listed.

 

[Ruzious]

With both Vea and Settle, the main potential problem is a conditioning and weight issue. With Payne there's no such issue. So I'm glad we have Payne instead of Vea (even though I had Vea rated ahead of Payne), because I don't want to have multiple rookies with that problem.

 

[Stymietee]

Kerrigan is criminally underrated.... probably one of the most if not the most underrated players in the entire NFL.

Preston Smith has insane potential. If he could put it all together for 16 games he could be one of the best rush linebackers in the NFL.

so I do disagree to a point

I really like the potential of Smith, however we must see it this year or begin rethinking/ reevaluating him. Kerrigan is what he is, and beyond that one sack per game, disappears too much during games to the point where seeing him as this constant defensive threat is simply not there for the opposition to worry about play in and play out.

Don't misunderstand, both he (Kerrigan) and Smith are really good players, but ask yourself, when was the last time any opposition offense bothered to use (outside of max protection) their TE to help ward off our feared pass rush? Hopefully, we've completely addressed the inside threats with this draft, now get me a guy who's always been a linebacker has more speed on the outside, who comes in with a built in repertoire of pass rushing counter moves and can make plays in space, (all BTW; are Kerrigan's weaknesses) then, I'm thrilled.

 

[Stymietee]

And this gents is why Payne was the BPA at 13

Quotable: “I’m a firm believer, whether or not it’s defensive line, whether or not it’s offensive line, the big boys make the little boys look better,” Williams said. “I don’t care how you cut [it] up. Little boys don’t make the big boys look better.

“The offensive line can make the running backs, the quarterbacks and the receiver look pretty good. And the D-Line can make the defensive backs look pretty good. But I haven’t seen any defensive back that made the big boys up front look better.”

Doug Williams

Doug is absolutely correct, however, there was one exception to his POV and we had him...Shawn Taylor, who made an entire defense better. (Ronnie Lot, Ed Reed)

 

[Sharkinva]

Doug is absolutely correct, however, there was one exception to his POV and we had him...Shawn Taylor, who made an entire defense better. (Ronnie Lot, Ed Reed)

Taylor wasnt playing behind a bunch of cast offs with until last year, the worst defensive coordinator in the history of the NFL. Still cant believe we replaced JIm Haslett with JOe Barry, and called it an upgrade. An UPGRADE.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[Sportster 72]

I really like the potential of Smith, however we must see it this year or begin rethinking/ reevaluating him. Kerrigan is what he is, and beyond that one sack per game, disappears too much during games to the point where seeing him as this constant defensive threat is simply not there for the opposition to worry about play in and play out.

Don't misunderstand, both he (Kerrigan) and Smith are really good players, but ask yourself, when was the last time any opposition offense bothered to use (outside of max protection) their TE to help ward off our feared pass rush? Hopefully, we've completely addressed the inside threats with this draft, now get me a guy who's always been a linebacker has more speed on the outside, who comes in with a built in repertoire of pass rushing counter moves and can make plays in space, (all BTW; are Kerrigan's weaknesses) then, I'm thrilled.

I really don't understand sometimes. Kerrigan has numbers that are equal to some top defensive rushers over the same period and you continually complain about his production. He gets holding calls, he puts pressure and he is rated very high in forced turnovers. No he does not get 15 sacks a year but lets also remember he has played on a horrendous defense his entire career. He is 82nd all time in sacks. He will certainly (barring injury) end up in the top 50 all time and has an outside chance at top 25. Don't get me wrong ..... that is not average.

 

[Stymietee]

I really don't understand sometimes. Kerrigan has numbers that are equal to some top defensive rushers over the same period and you continually complain about his production. He gets holding calls, he puts pressure and he is rated very high in forced turnovers. No he does not get 15 sacks a year but lets also remember he has played on a horrendous defense his entire career. He is 82nd all time in sacks. He will certainly (barring injury) end up in the top 50 all time and has an outside chance at top 25. Don't get me wrong ..... that is not average.

Nobody said that he was average, just that he's not what I look for in an OLB. I purposely listed his weaknesses, which are what I would look for in his replacement. Never was a big fan of his because of those weaknesses. Does he get the job done?...Absolutely!! Can we do much better?...Absolutely!! Same with Smith. he either show more than flashes with regards to his potential, or it's time to reevaluate!

 

[Sportster 72]

So there are only 81 guys in the history of the NFL (since the sack became an official stat) better. I agree, you need to reevaluate. He is doing what a 3-4 OLB/DE is supposed to do.

 

[ehb5]

Nobody said that he was average, just that he's not what I look for in an OLB. I purposely listed his weaknesses, which are what I would look for in his replacement. Never was a big fan of his because of those weaknesses. Does he get the job done?...Absolutely!! Can we do much better?...Absolutely!! Same with Smith. he either show more than flashes with regards to his potential, or it's time to reevaluate!

How many better 3-4 OLBs are there in the NFL right now? Its not a long list.

 

[Stymietee]

How many better 3-4 OLBs are there in the NFL right now? Its not a long list.

I agree, but that's not my point, so, to be clear, those are the things that I'm looking for in MY OLB'ers. Kerrigan is fine, I just think that this team can improve on what they currently have. BTW: I can name a few, Justin Houston, Von Miller, Chandler Jones, and Whitney Mercilius, all come to mind.

 

[ehb5]

I agree, but that's not my point, so, to be clear, those are the things that I'm looking for in MY OLB'ers. Kerrigan is fine, I just think that this team can improve on what they currently have. BTW: I can name a few, Justin Houston, Von Miller, Chandler Jones, and Whitney Mercilius, all come to mind.

What is your point then? If theres only a small handful of better players at his position I dont think we need to be worrying about improving there. Hes been one of 2 consistent bright spots on this team since he was drafted (TW being the other).

 

[Stymietee]

What is your point then? If theres only a small handful of better players at his position I dont think we need to be worrying about improving there. Hes been one of 2 consistent bright spots on this team since he was drafted (TW being the other).

Well, in keeping with my persistent theme to always look to upgrade, why rest on being one of the best instead of having THE best in the game. Right now, if everything works out with the youngsters inside, our weak spots become both of these outside players. I still think that Smith might show us something. We know what Kerrigan is, and there's still hope that Anderson will become the second round player that the team hoped him to be.
Put a Whitney Mercilus type in his place and it will drive offensive coordinators mad trying to game plan against this team. That's the difference.

 

[ehb5]

Well, in keeping with my persistent theme to always look to upgrade, why rest on being one of the best instead of having THE best in the game. Right now, if everything works out with the youngsters inside, our weak spots become both of these outside players. I still think that Smith might show us something. We know what Kerrigan is, and there's still hope that Anderson will become the second round player that the team hoped him to be.

Sure its a nice goal but its not really realistic. We simply cant afford to worry about upgrading from a top 10 OLB to a top 3 OLB unless we accidentally fall into some elite player on accident.

 

[Stymietee]

Sure its a nice goal but its not really realistic. We simply cant afford to worry about upgrading from a top 10 OLB to a top 3 OLB unless we accidentally fall into some elite player on accident.

That's the biggest problem with this team...they lack "elite" players, especially on defense. Who is "THAT GUY" on this team, that keeps offensive coordinators up late into early mornings trying to scheme against him/them? Why is it realistic for other teams to have the best player(s) at any given position, but not us?

BTW: you don't worry about getting that guy unless you can't identify him in a draft as better than what you already have. I'm not advocating a move from top 10 to top 3, but one that counts as #1 in the league.