Rotation

[thecrow124]

1. I don't agree Garza is better than Latos, they are both #2 starters to me.

2. Alonso is consensus top 100 prospects

3. I don't agree that the Cubs are full rebuild mode, they don't have to be, they have money to do a rebuild on the fly, and their farm system isn't that bad.

If we are going to say Latos return = Garza's return, it would probably be Lincoln/McDonald, Grossman, ZvR/Cain, and Owens/Locke.

1. I believe we may have to agree to disagree. While I said both were top of the rotation starters, I do believe Garza is the better of the 2. Latos is a flyball pitcher who had the luxury of playing in one of, if not the best, pitchers parks in MLB, all while playing in the worst hitting division in all of baseball. He will be exposed in Cincy where a much larger number of his flyballs will find the seats.

2. I never said Alonso wasn't a top prospect, but he is not the power hitting line-up changing 1B we are looking for, he is likely to have fewer HR's than our platoon.

3. To listen to the broadcast on ESPN radio out of Chicago, they pretty much sound like they are in re-build mode, unless they can move Soriano and most of his contract, the owner does not want to spend money right now. He lost money last year on the team and presumably isn't going to let that happen again. The top of their farm system might not be bad, but there is a sudden and significant dropoff after about 4 or 5 people.

 

[element1286]

1. I believe we may have to agree to disagree. While I said both were top of the rotation starters, I do believe Garza is the better of the 2. Latos is a flyball pitcher who had the luxury of playing in one of, if not the best, pitchers parks in MLB, all while playing in the worst hitting division in all of baseball. He will be exposed in Cincy where a much larger number of his flyballs will find the seats.

2. I never said Alonso wasn't a top prospect, but he is not the power hitting line-up changing 1B we are looking for, he is likely to have fewer HR's than our platoon.

3. To listen to the broadcast on ESPN radio out of Chicago, they pretty much sound like they are in re-build mode, unless they can move Soriano and most of his contract, the owner does not want to spend money right now. He lost money last year on the team and presumably isn't going to let that happen again. The top of their farm system might not be bad, but there is a sudden and significant dropoff after about 4 or 5 people.

1. Fair enough, agree to disagree.

2. I'm probably higher on Alonso than most; I think he becomes Kevin Youkilis type with the bat, and develops power as he gets older. But I think he is good for 280/360/450 next year.

3. Maybe they don't want to spend, but I still find it hard to believe they are going to just give Garza away, especially considering what they paid to get him (in prospects), and the fact that he has improved since becoming a Cub.

 

[thecrow124]

Epstein and Hoyer didn't give up anything to get Garza. They weren't even there when he was acquired. The package I put out there may not be enough, but it can't be too far off. Maybe another major league arm with more years of control and another lesser prospect. I guess it would matter more what they are looking to get, if they want prospects with higher ceilings or if they want more prospects. I was betting on them wanting more people in return.

 

[Etrius24]

Alonso is not a elite power bat... but he is not Doug eyechart either... HE has some pop... enough average and plate discipline to be a good major league hitter...

But you are right he has already been traded.... so the theoretical is moot.

 

[Illinest]

Is this the roatation thread? Because ive got some good news to share. Morton told wtae that his recovery is ahead of schedule. Hes already thrown off the mound four times and he thinks he can be ready in time for opening day.

 

[thecrow124]

Is this the roatation thread? Because ive got some good news to share. Morton told wtae that his recovery is ahead of schedule. Hes already thrown off the mound four times and he thinks he can be ready in time for opening day.

I read somewhere that he was ahead of schedule as well, but that his conditioning was behind where it should be at, as per Hurdle. Good news indeed, we can probably get by without needing Lincoln or Correia as a starter in the early part of the season and Morton can get his strength back.

 

[Darkstone42]

Is this the roatation thread? Because ive got some good news to share. Morton told wtae that his recovery is ahead of schedule. Hes already thrown off the mound four times and he thinks he can be ready in time for opening day.

I read somewhere that he was ahead of schedule as well, but that his conditioning was behind where it should be at, as per Hurdle. Good news indeed, we can probably get by without needing Lincoln or Correia as a starter in the early part of the season and Morton can get his strength back.

And that's all I have to say about that.


Well, okay, one more thing, I wonder if he's figured out a plan for lefties yet...

 

[magnumo]

Seems that Morton MAY be ready by the time the Bucs need a 5th starter in mid-April. That would be good news.

If true, they'll need to make a decision on Correia vs. Karstens sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, I continue to see hints that Correia is a "lock" to be in the rotation.

I hope the Pirates' brain trust come to their senses about that. IMO, it would be almost criminal to demote Karstens to the bullpen in order to keep Correia in the rotation. But maybe health issues will take care of the situation. (They probably won't trade away rotation depth, at least until mid-season.)

 

[Etrius24]

Darkstone

The dancing smiley guy is way cool... I feel the exact same way!

 

[stillmatic32]

I like that Correia even has a shot of not making the rotation. I agree, how could Karstens not make it? Sure, you could say he was very lucky last year, but I'd like to give him the chance to prove otherwise.

 

[thecrow124]

I like that Correia even has a shot of not making the rotation. I agree, how could Karstens not make it? Sure, you could say he was very lucky last year, but I'd like to give him the chance to prove otherwise.

The only problem with going with Karstens in the rotation is that he is much better suited for the long relief/emergency starter role. He is close to the perfect guy for that spot. That being said, until he proves beyond a doubt that he isn't the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th best starter on this team I would keep him in the rotation.

 

[Etrius24]

As much as I hate the thought of doing it...Because you always need more pitching... Should the Bucs Package Karstens or Correia with a prospect to another team in hopes of getting a bat back in return?

 

[Darkstone42]

Darkstone

The dancing smiley guy is way cool... I feel the exact same way!

This one's better:

In retrospect, I should have used that one, as he just looks the happiest of anything anywhere ever.

 

[element1286]

As much as I hate the thought of doing it...Because you always need more pitching... Should the Bucs Package Karstens or Correia with a prospect to another team in hopes of getting a bat back in return?

No one would give a bat worth anything for such a package.

 

[stillmatic32]

A package like that could potentially land Matt Stairs

 

[magnumo]

All the reports (which mention the issue) in today's media continue to indicate that either Karstens or Correia will come out of the rotation.

On the other hand, I've been reading 3 Pirate boards pretty regularly..... and have yet to see a single projected rotation posted by a single Pirate fan which includes Correia. There's gotta be one out there somewhere, but I haven't seen it yet.

Clearly, there's cognitive dissonance involved in this in some way.

 

[Etrius24]

Darkstone,

I am not even sure what that smiley guy is doing.... He looks pretty happy though.. I like the first one better I think.

 

[Etrius24]

I guess the Pirates need a Brain Daubach... Someone that they can get cheap that can be productive.

 

[magnumo]

A Few Thoughts about Pirate Starters.....

- Hopefully, our starting pitchers will NOT suffer any more debilitating injuries as Spring Training progresses.

- With Burnett on the shelf, there should be no more worries about Karstens returning to the bullpen..... at least at the start the season. It appears HIGHLY unlikely that Karstens could be bumped by Lincoln, Locke, or anyone else other than Burnett.

- Barring injury, Bedard, Karstens, McDonald, and Correia (not necessarily in that order) seem to be locks to take four slots, coming out of the gate. Confidence seems to be growing that Morton will be ready to take a turn, at least when the Pirates need a 5th starter.

- By the time Burnett returns, management should have a clue about who's pitching well and who isn't..... and can drop the RIGHT guy from the rotation, whoever that may be.

- Wouldn't it by great if one of the LONG shots (e.g., Reyes, Cabrera, Martis) forced himself into the picture? Seems highly unlikely at this point, but stranger things have happened.

- Where is Rudy Owens? After 6 ST games, there's a list of 28 pitchers who have appeared for the Pirates..... but none is named Rudy Owens. And Owens doesn't show up on the injury list. Anyone have any info?

 

[element1286]

Yea, not sure whats up with Owens, he might be hurt in some way. Didn't he have some arm fatigue at the end of last year?