Roster Projection

[Crimsoncrew]

have read 'live arm' and i'm sure he has mobility. don't recall reading 'good accuracy'? anyway, no big deal.

agree the 3rd QB should be a developmental guy, so the better QB should stick. not better versatility, but better QB. if Harbaugh prefers versatility fine, place the 3rd QB on the PS. but in this scenario he only has two years to develop that QB, and most "3rd QB's" need more than two years?

Better how? Better now? Higher ceiling? Lower floor? "Better" is a very broad word.

As for Daniels' accuracy, I recall reading that he was hitting guys in stride and looking quite good not long ago.

Here it is, from Grant Cohn:

B.J. Daniels – Except for his deep pass to Hawkins, Daniels’ passes were accurate. The first week of practice, he was hitting receivers, but not in stride. Today, he hit almost every target in stride. And he’s drastically improving his hands as a receiver every day.

This coming after mini camp reports that he was looking quite strong.

 

[deep9er]

Okoye is a bit of a longshot, but the PS is a developmental squad. If he shows any ability in the preseason at all, I think he's got a legit chance. It's hard to picture a PS player with more upside. It may come down to whether Tomsula wants to keep working with him.

As for Gray, I haven't heard much. But we need help at receiver with most of the group set to be FA after next year. Gray is versatile, smart, and has good physical traits. I think he'll appeal to this coaching staff.

Who do you think sticks instead of Okoye and Gray?

good question and don't have good answers in mind. i'd have to look up the eligible players first?

what about Tolzien on the 53, and Daniels to the PS? so depending on where the injuries occur, we can use Daniels?

 

[deep9er]

Better how? Better now? Higher ceiling? Lower floor? "Better" is a very broad word.

As for Daniels' accuracy, I recall reading that he was hitting guys in stride and looking quite good not long ago.

Here it is, from Grant Cohn:

B.J. Daniels – Except for his deep pass to Hawkins, Daniels’ passes were accurate. The first week of practice, he was hitting receivers, but not in stride. Today, he hit almost every target in stride. And he’s drastically improving his hands as a receiver every day.

This coming after mini camp reports that he was looking quite strong.

higher ceiling. odds are the 3rd QB won't have a HIGH ceiling, and odds are he'll need time IF he gets there at all, but the one with most potential to play well.

ok, good to read he started will in mini-camp, but now with the pads on and with 11 on 11's, we'll see? certainly not rooting against Daniels, just saying rather not push him over Tolzien because he's versatile. do push him over if he's a better QB.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

higher ceiling. odds are the 3rd QB won't have a HIGH ceiling, and odds are he'll need time IF he gets there at all, but the one with most potential to play well.

ok, good to read he started will in mini-camp, but now with the pads on and with 11 on 11's, we'll see? certainly not rooting against Daniels, just saying rather not push him over Tolzien because he's versatile. do push him over if he's a better QB.

The quote from Cohn was recent and from training camp. Tolzien is clearly not going to go away, but I really think the key competition is between McCoy and Tolzien for #2. I think Daniels has a good shot at #3.

 

[willtalk]

have read 'live arm' and i'm sure he has mobility. don't recall reading 'good accuracy'? anyway, no big deal.

agree the 3rd QB should be a developmental guy, so the better QB should stick. not better versatility, but better QB. if Harbaugh prefers versatility fine, place the 3rd QB on the PS. but in this scenario he only has two years to develop that QB, and most "3rd QB's" need more than two years?

Tolzien is competing with McCoy for the number 2 position. The loser does not go to the number 3 position but rather gets cut. There are a couple of factors that you are not even considering in this scenario.
1. Daniels has according to Harbaugh, narrowed the gap between himself and the other two QB's.
2. Keeping the better QB would only apply to the back up position. The 3rd stringer would be based more on potential to fulfill the teams need.
3.Tolzien was with Harbaugh for two years and the fact that he traded for McCoy speaks to Harbaughs confidence in Tolzein.
4.Tolzein was not kept over Johnson last year because he was the better QB, rather because he was a better fit for the teams needs as the third string QB. ( teams need )
5. Daniels is more suited than either McCoy or Tolzein to back up Kaep since he has similar skills which are a necessity for the read option. Cutting down the playbook would not be necessary. He is developing very fast and might be ready before the end of the year to replace the second stringer on the depth chart.
6. And most important. Daniels would never clear wavers to make it to the PS. A lot of teams are switching to the read option and those type of QB's are at a premium. Why do you think they drafted Manual before any pocket QB. The success of Russel Wilson broke the mold that said a Qb had to be tall to be successful. Daniel is a Russel Wilson clone. Seattle was going to draft him with one of the two picks that followed the Niner's selection. They would pick him up in a second.
7. Harbaugh said that he preferred his 3rd QB to be active for games but that to do so he would have to play multiple positions. He drafted Daniel with this in mind, provided that he could be developed in a reasonable amount of time. He has up to now exceeded that expectation.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Tolzien is competing with McCoy for the number 2 position. The loser does not go to the number 3 position but rather gets cut. There are a couple of factors that you are not even considering in this scenario.
1. Daniels has according to Harbaugh, narrowed the gap between himself and the other two QB's.
2. Keeping the better QB would only apply to the back up position. The 3rd stringer would be based more on potential to fulfill the teams need.
3.Tolzien was with Harbaugh for two years and the fact that he traded for McCoy speaks to Harbaughs confidence in Tolzein.
4.Tolzein was not kept over Johnson last year because he was the better QB, rather because he was a better fit for the teams needs as the third string QB. ( teams need )
5. Daniels is more suited than either McCoy or Tolzein to back up Kaep since he has similar skills which are a necessity for the read option. Cutting down the playbook would not be necessary. He is developing very fast and might be ready before the end of the year to replace the second stringer on the depth chart.
6. And most important. Daniels would never clear wavers to make it to the PS. A lot of teams are switching to the read option and those type of QB's are at a premium. Why do you think they drafted Manual before any pocket QB. The success of Russel Wilson broke the mold that said a Qb had to be tall to be successful. Daniel is a Russel Wilson clone. Seattle was going to draft him with one of the two picks that followed the Niner's selection. They would pick him up in a second.
7. Harbaugh said that he preferred his 3rd QB to be active for games but that to do so he would have to play multiple positions. He drafted Daniel with this in mind, provided that he could be developed in a reasonable amount of time. He has up to now exceeded that expectation.

Not sure I agree with the bold. You're talking about an undrafted, undersized QB who, at least to date, hasn't done anything in the preseason. I don't think there's a great risk that Daniels would get plucked off the PS unless he gets some reps and does something with them in the next three games.

I also wouldn't say Russell Wilson broke the mold in terms of height. Doug Flutie didn't break the mold. Drew Brees didn't break the mold. Michael Vick didn't break the mold. Those guys did/have done more than Wilson has to date, and Wilson still fell almost entirely due to his height. I don't think we'll suddenly see an influx of short QBs.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Revisions after the first game (and yes, I realize these are incredibly premature, but what the hell?):

QB (3): Kaepernick, Tolzien, Daniels

RB (5): Gore, LMJ, Hunter, Dixon, Miller

WR (6): Same, though Lockette and/or Osgood could make a bit on STs

TE (3): Same

OL (8): Same

DL (6): Same; if Dial gets healthy, he could bump Tukuafu, who I thought struggled holding the point a bit.

OLB (5): A. Smith, Brooks, Haralson, Skuta, Lemonier

ILB (4): Same

CB (5): Same

S (5): Whitner, Reid, Spillman, Dahl, Robinson

STs (3): Same

Rationale: I bump Hampton down to the PS. No idea why we didn't see him last night, but it may be that they're trying to stash him. I'm going to assume that's it for now. Cam Johnson didn't impress me much. We'll see going forward, but Lemonier is young and looked good. Haralson and Skuta also had good games.

Looking over this, I think I had 54 in my initial roster. Whoops.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Tolzien is competing with McCoy for the number 2 position. The loser does not go to the number 3 position but rather gets cut. There are a couple of factors that you are not even considering in this scenario.
1. Daniels has according to Harbaugh, narrowed the gap between himself and the other two QB's.
2. Keeping the better QB would only apply to the back up position. The 3rd stringer would be based more on potential to fulfill the teams need.
3.Tolzien was with Harbaugh for two years and the fact that he traded for McCoy speaks to Harbaughs confidence in Tolzein.
4.Tolzein was not kept over Johnson last year because he was the better QB, rather because he was a better fit for the teams needs as the third string QB. ( teams need )
5. Daniels is more suited than either McCoy or Tolzein to back up Kaep since he has similar skills which are a necessity for the read option. Cutting down the playbook would not be necessary. He is developing very fast and might be ready before the end of the year to replace the second stringer on the depth chart.
6. And most important. Daniels would never clear wavers to make it to the PS. A lot of teams are switching to the read option and those type of QB's are at a premium. Why do you think they drafted Manual before any pocket QB. The success of Russel Wilson broke the mold that said a Qb had to be tall to be successful. Daniel is a Russel Wilson clone. Seattle was going to draft him with one of the two picks that followed the Niner's selection. They would pick him up in a second.
7. Harbaugh said that he preferred his 3rd QB to be active for games but that to do so he would have to play multiple positions. He drafted Daniel with this in mind, provided that he could be developed in a reasonable amount of time. He has up to now exceeded that expectation.

Tolzein has been battling it out for the third. Colt was brought in to fill Alex Smith's vacancy. How was Tolzein kept over Johnson last year based on team need? Why would the team slot a spot for a pocket passer for need when it could have gone with Johnson who can actually run the read-option? The answer is he beat Johnson out by outperforming him as a player.

Then for Daniels - if read-option QB's are at a premium and he's a good read-option QB prospect - why the hell would other teams allow him to fall to the very bottom of the 7th round? A team might activate him, but saying he would never clear waivers is absolutely ridiculous. Which team who let him slide that far in the draft suddenly needs to put him on the active roster off waivers? Did they change to a read-option system since the draft and realize that they have to have this guy? Speculating that Seattle would have taken him that late is a major reach when they could have easily locked him up at any point earlier.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Tolzein has been battling it out for the third. Colt was brought in to fill Alex Smith's vacancy. How was Tolzein kept over Johnson last year based on team need? Why would the team slot a spot for a pocket passer for need when it could have gone with Johnson who can actually run the read-option? The answer is he beat Johnson out by outperforming him as a player.

Then for Daniels - if read-option QB's are at a premium and he's a good read-option QB prospect - why the hell would other teams allow him to fall to the very bottom of the 7th round? A team might activate him, but saying he would never clear waivers is absolutely ridiculous. Which team who let him slide that far in the draft suddenly needs to put him on the active roster off waivers? Did they change to a read-option system since the draft and realize that they have to have this guy? Speculating that Seattle would have taken him that late is a major reach when they could have easily locked him up at any point earlier.

I said Daniels was an UDFA above, I realized. But late seventh round is basically the same thing.

Re: 2nd and 3rd QB, I do think there's a distinction between last year and this year. Generally, if you're keeping two backup QBs, I think you want two types: 1) a solid backup who can run the offense and keep you in games, and 2) a guy with some upside who could develop into a good player. Last year, our #2 QB fall into the second category, so we arguably wanted the more stable player at #3. This year, we may want our #2 to be a more conventional, dependable backup.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I said Daniels was an UDFA above, I realized. But late seventh round is basically the same thing.

Re: 2nd and 3rd QB, I do think there's a distinction between last year and this year. Generally, if you're keeping two backup QBs, I think you want two types: 1) a solid backup who can run the offense and keep you in games, and 2) a guy with some upside who could develop into a good player. Last year, our #2 QB fall into the second category, so we arguably wanted the more stable player at #3. This year, we may want our #2 to be a more conventional, dependable backup.

Yes that could have been true from last year to this year. But I wonder if in addition to being the better stable player that they looked at Tolzien as having more upside potential as a pocket passer compared to Josh Johnson's overall potential. Another big X factor is that Tolzien is highly competitive and has a crazy work ethic.

For this year I wouldn't mind if they go with an athletic rookie who can be activated to fill other roles at #3, but it's real tough penciling in this bottom 7th rounder who hasn't even been inserted in a preseason game at QB at this point. If Tolzien gives Colt a run for the money as the backup then he should definitely stay. If he falls apart he could be gone. I just don't see BJ Daniels as the backup unless there's an injury to the actual backup.

 

[deep9er]

Yes that could have been true from last year to this year. But I wonder if in addition to being the better stable player that they looked at Tolzien as having more upside potential as a pocket passer compared to Josh Johnson's overall potential. Another big X factor is that Tolzien is highly competitive and has a crazy work ethic.

For this year I wouldn't mind if they go with an athletic rookie who can be activated to fill other roles at #3, but it's real tough penciling in this bottom 7th rounder who hasn't even been inserted in a preseason game at QB at this point. If Tolzien gives Colt a run for the money as the backup then he should definitely stay. If he falls apart he could be gone. I just don't see BJ Daniels as the backup unless there's an injury to the actual backup.

this is close to my opinion.

NFL QB's are about passing first and foremost, the athletic part, versatile part, is gravy on the passing. no matter how athletic or versatile you are, you won't make it without being a good passer. if Kaep couldn't pass well, he wouldn't be considered a good QB. despite him being very athletic, and able to run like a gazelle.

same with Daniels, judge him on his passing skills first. if he is as good as Tolzien, THEN his versatility pushes him ahead. I wouldn't add his versatility right now.

if Harbaugh wants an active "3rd QB"......not #2 but 3rd QB, fine with me. but you decide this after you sort out who's the QB with a higher ceiling?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

From Barrows on Hampton. It will be interesting to see how this develops:

Meanwhile, fellow running back Jewel Hampton didn't see any snaps. Hampton was the weak link in pass-protection drills early in training camp (though he got better as time went on). His lack of snaps may be a signal from position coach Tom Rathman - if you want to play, learn how to protect the quarterback.

Read more here: 49ers Blog and Q&A: Film review: Wilhoite, Cox shine; a closer look at Jenkins' night

 

[deep9er]

From Barrows on Hampton. It will be interesting to see how this develops:

Meanwhile, fellow running back Jewel Hampton didn't see any snaps. Hampton was the weak link in pass-protection drills early in training camp (though he got better as time went on). His lack of snaps may be a signal from position coach Tom Rathman - if you want to play, learn how to protect the quarterback.

Read more here: 49ers Blog and Q&A: Film review: Wilhoite, Cox shine; a closer look at Jenkins' night

the bright side..........he didn't fumble.

isn't he competing with BJ Harper?, or is it Harper AND Dixon?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

the bright side..........he didn't fumble.

isn't he competing with BJ Harper?, or is it Harper AND Dixon?

He's competing primarily with people at other positions IMO. We'll be fine with Gore, James, Hunter, and Dixon at HB. A fifth guy is a luxury, but worth it if he's promising. Given Dixon's STs ability and performance last night, I don't see him getting cut - though it's certainly possible. That means another RB will have to make it worth our while to keep him at the expense of another DB, DL, or WR.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

It's been a couple weeks and a few injuries, trades, cuts. So I decided to do a 53 man projection. Here is my best go

QB:
7 Kaepernick, Colin
QB 6-4 230 25 3 Nevada
5 Daniels, B.J.
QB 6-1 217 23 R South Florida
2 McCoy, Colt
QB 6-1 220 26 4 Texas

RB:
21 Gore, Frank
RB 5-9 217 30 9 Miami (Fla.)
32 Hunter, Kendall
RB 5-7 199 24 3 Oklahoma St.
23 James, LaMichael
RB 5-9 195 23 2 Oregon
24 Dixon, Anthony
RB 6-1 233 25 4 Mississippi St.

FB:
49 Miller, Bruce
FB 6-2 248 26 3 Central Florida

WR:
81 Boldin, Anquan
WR 6-1 220 32 11 Florida St.
19 Moore, Marlon
WR 6-0 190 25 4 Fresno St.
10 Williams, Kyle
WR 5-10 186 25 4 Arizona St.
11 Patton, Quinton
WR 6-0 204 23 R Louisiana Tech
Baldwin, Jon
WR 6-4 230 24 3 Pittsburgh
6 Collie, Austin
WR 6-0 204 27 5 Brigham Young

TE:
85 Davis, Vernon
TE 6-3 250 29 8 Maryland
89 McDonald, Vance
TE 6-4 267 23 R Rice
88 Celek, Garrett
TE 6-5 252 25 2 Michigan St.

OT:
76 Davis, Anthony
T 6-5 323 23 4 Rutgers
74 Staley, Joe
T 6-5 315 28 7 Central Michigan

G:
75 Boone, Alex
G 6-8 300 26 4 Ohio St.
77 Iupati, Mike
G 6-5 331 26 4 Idaho
68 Snyder, Adam
G 6-6 325 31 9 Oregon
78 Looney, Joe
G 6-3 315 22 2 Wake Forest

C:
59 Goodwin, Jonathan
C 6-3 318 34 12 Michigan
67 Kilgore, Daniel
G 6-3 308 25 3 Appalachian St.

DT:
94 Smith, Justin
DT 6-4 285 33 13 Missouri
91 McDonald, Ray
DT 6-3 290 28 7 Florida
48 Tukuafu, Will
FB/DT 6-4 293 29 3 Oregon
83 Dobbs, Demarcus
TE/DT 6-2 275 25 3 Georgia


NT:
93 Williams, Ian
NT 6-1 305 23 3 Notre Dame
90 Dorsey, Glenn
DL 6-1 297 28 6 LSU

OLB:
99 Smith, Aldon
LB 6-4 265 23 3 Missouri
55 Brooks, Ahmad
LB 6-3 259 29 8 Virginia
98 Haralson, Parys
LB 6-0 255 29 8 Tennessee
96 Lemonier, Corey
LB 6-3 255 21 R Auburn

ILB:
52 Willis, Patrick
LB 6-1 240 28 7 Mississippi
53 Bowman, NaVorro
LB 6-0 242 25 4 Penn St.
57 Wilhoite, Michael
LB 6-0 240 26 2 Washburn
54 Moody, Nick
LB 6-1 236 23 R Florida State

CB:
22 Rogers, Carlos
CB 6-0 192 32 9 Auburn
25 Brown, Tarell
CB 5-10 193 28 7 Texas
24 Asomugha, Nnamdi
CB 6-2 210 32 11 California
26 Brock, Tramaine
CB 5-10 197 25 4 Belhaven
20 Cox, Perrish
CB 6-0 198 26 3 Oklahoma St.
38 Morris, Darryl
CB 5-10 188 22 R Texas State

S:
31 Whitner, Donte
S 5-10 208 28 8 Ohio St.
Reid, Eric
S 6-1 213 21 R LSU
43 Dahl, Craig
S 6-1 212 28 7 North Dakota State
27 Spillman, C.J.
S 6-0 199 27 5 Marshall
36 Thomas, Michael
S 5-11 196 24 1 Stanford

ST:
4 Lee, Andy
P 6-2 180 31 10 Pittsburgh
9 Dawson, Phil
K 5-11 200 38 15 Texas
86 Jennings, Brian
TE/LS 6-5 242 36 14 Arizona St.

PUP:
15 Crabtree, Michael
WR 6-1 214 25 5 Texas Tech
82 Manningham, Mario
WR 6-0 185 27 6 Michigan
95 Carradine, Tank
DT 6-4 276 24 R Florida State
71 Dial, Quinton
DT 6-6 304 23 R Alabama
38 Lattimore, Marcus
RB 5-11 221 21 R South Carolina

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'd be surprised if Skuta doesn't make it. Otherwise, that's darn close to what I think will shake out. I have Robinson ahead of Thomas (Thomas a likely PS candidate). We also need Eric Wright somewhere, either PUP or as the sixth CB - unless you think he doesn't make it?

 

[supreme_clientele81]

I'd be surprised if Skuta doesn't make it. Otherwise, that's darn close to what I think will shake out. I have Robinson ahead of Thomas (Thomas a likely PS candidate). We also need Eric Wright somewhere, either PUP or as the sixth CB - unless you think he doesn't make it?

forgot he was on the team to be honest I thought about Skuta for STs but I don't remember him doing anything in the 2 games and I would rather keep an extra CB then him. I thought Thomas made the team last year was that Robinson?

 

[deep9er]

should there be one more 'Gunner'? someone who also covers kick-offs? not pushing had to get rid of Celek, but maybe that is a spot to target? MacDonald can catch as well right?

or use that 3rd TE spot for another OLB such, as Cam Johnson?

 

[luckyluke22]

Robinson made it.

Yeah an extra gunner would be nice. Sakura also played decent enough. His numbers were ok if memory serves me right. The last few spots on the team will be tight.

 

[luckyluke22]

Skuta*

Dang phone.