Rosenthal: M's need free agents...but will find it hard to attract decent ones

[cezero]

yeah, i agree with just about all of that

plus, even 1 or 2 seasons of cano doing well here (realistic considering his age) could entice other FA to come here in the future with less begging/overpaying.

I'm not advocating the M's going after Cano but eventually they are going to have to massively over pay for a few free agents. You have to over pay to make money and eventually not have to overpay. The M's use to spend a ton of money and thats the late 90-2003 team were made up of guys who took lesser money to be in Seattle.

I'd like Cano because
A. He is proven
B. Him coming in opens up plenty of trade possibilities that do not involve Walker. With a Cano, it is a time that they can open up discussions with dealing Seager as he is a sell high guy with this type of organization because when it comes to contract time he is going to be worth way more to the Mariners than any other team.

 

[wazzu31]

yeah, i agree with just about all of that

plus, even 1 or 2 seasons of cano doing well here (realistic considering his age) could entice other FA to come here in the future with less begging/overpaying.

I really do hate how organizations get so caught up on "years" Seattle is always known for only 4 year deals so if you are going to have only a set amount of years then make those years much more lucrative. I personally think giving Cano a 4 year 33 million a year contract is much better than his most likely 8-10 for 28. You pay much more up front but don't get stuck with the baggage at the end like say a Fielder type contract. Oh hell, go big for a Bobby Bonilla contract with a million dollars a year lifetime contract.

 

[cezero]

... I personally think giving Cano a 4 year 33 million a year contract is much better than his most likely 8-10 for 28...contract.

that's not going to happen

he'll get a monster contract for for the 8-10 years you spoke of....any team will end up waaaay overpaying him for his "past prime" years. it's the way it goes with marquee players like pujols/fielder/hamilton/etc.

if we get a cano type, let's just hope he's not an instantaneous albatross like hamilton or pujuols.

 

[briwas101]

I'm not advocating the M's going after Cano but eventually they are going to have to massively over pay for a few free agents. You have to over pay to make money and eventually not have to overpay. The M's use to spend a ton of money and thats the late 90-2003 team were made up of guys who took lesser money to be in Seattle.

I'd like Cano because
A. He is proven
B. Him coming in opens up plenty of trade possibilities that do not involve Walker. With a Cano, it is a time that they can open up discussions with dealing Seager as he is a sell high guy with this type of organization because when it comes to contract time he is going to be worth way more to the Mariners than any other team.

Why do they HAVE TO go out and overpay someone?

Look at all the high priced sluggers from thr last decade and how FEW of them actually were worth it.

You have a better chance of bedding a supermodel than you do of paying someone $25+ million per year and NOT regretting it.



Paying someone $200m when they are only worth $25-50 million is an easy way to make your team worse.

NO ONE EVER HAS TO OVERPAY!

Overpaying is a CHOICE, and when you CHOOSE to overpay you CHOOSE to set the team back a few years.


You think the Mariners suck now? Try taking away $20-30m per year from our payroll and giving it to someone who doesn't deserve it.

The Ms can be a lot worse than they are now. Following your advice would get them there.

(Note, I am not talking about Cano making us worse, he's one of the only ones who wouldnt make us worse, but he would prevent us from making the playoffs because he would take up 30% of the payroll.)

 

[cezero]

Why do they HAVE TO go out and overpay someone?



NO ONE EVER HAS TO OVERPAY!

if you have quality free agents that can command the same money from multiple teams, they'd be idiots to pick a losing team to join.

of course the m's will have to overpay to get quality free agents. i don't always agree with rosenthal, but this is 3rd grade logic.

there's no way around it. it's the bed howchuck have made with all of their choices for the past decade and more.

it's part of the reason i'm more in favor of setting up good trades to acquire younger talent that other teams have indeed developed.

 

[wazzu31]

Why do they HAVE TO go out and overpay someone?

Look at all the high priced sluggers from thr last decade and how FEW of them actually were worth it.

You have a better chance of bedding a supermodel than you do of paying someone $25+ million per year and NOT regretting it.



Paying someone $200m when they are only worth $25-50 million is an easy way to make your team worse.

NO ONE EVER HAS TO OVERPAY!

Overpaying is a CHOICE, and when you CHOOSE to overpay you CHOOSE to set the team back a few years.


You think the Mariners suck now? Try taking away $20-30m per year from our payroll and giving it to someone who doesn't deserve it.

The Ms can be a lot worse than they are now. Following your advice would get them there.

(Note, I am not talking about Cano making us worse, he's one of the only ones who wouldnt make us worse, but he would prevent us from making the playoffs because he would take up 30% of the payroll.)

They have to overpay because they are a laughing stock of a franchise that cannot attract any sluggers and haven't developed an offensive star since Arod.

Look at the stars, would you take Pujols or Fielder right now, yes or no? Does it suck having bad contracts towards the end of their careers yes, but that is why you don't just build your franchise entirely around free agents. You can swallow huge contracts by having prospects or making wise trades for younger players.

I totally understand the logic, but by that logic why is Felix on the team? Felix is nowhere worth the money he has been given if you consider his impact on the field.

You're correct, noone ever has to overpay but in MLB pretty much noone is worth the money they are being paid. It's either massively underpaid or massively overpaid. It has been designed like that since the union started running baseball. I am totally fine with the not overpaying for someone but they can't have it both ways and have a contract like Felix if they are going to go cheap.

The Mariners suck now, but exactly how would a couple of bad contracts make them worse? You think had they replaced a Saunders for Ellsbury they would've been worse or Cano for Franklin/Miller/Ackley? Had they taken on Hamilton's contract they wouldn't have been any worse than last year.

The Mariners biggest problem is they have zero identity, the organization does not have the personel to run a small market team yet they don't have the commitment to be a big market franchise.

 

[wazzu31]

if you have quality free agents that can command the same money from multiple teams, they'd be idiots to pick a losing team to join.

of course the m's will have to overpay to get quality free agents. i don't always agree with rosenthal, but this is 3rd grade logic.

there's no way around it. it's the bed howchuck have made with all of their choices for the past decade and more.

it's part of the reason i'm more in favor of setting up good trades to acquire younger talent that other teams have indeed developed.

Agreed except the M's have backed themselves into a corner. How does it benefit the franchise if it keeps being prospect for prospect deals? I still think that keeps them in limbo. Outside of Walker, in my opinion, there is not a single prospect that the Mariners have that can attract a good offensive prospect. Bavasi's Bedard deal hurt the franchise big time but Jack's Cliff Lee and Doug Fister deals have crippled the organization.

 

[johnfree63]

I totally understand the logic, but by that logic why is Felix on the team? Felix is nowhere worth the money he has been given if you consider his impact on the field.

Pick a different player. Felix has lived up to his contract thus far. He's one of the top 10 pitcher in Baseball.

 

[cezero]

Agreed except the M's have backed themselves into a corner. How does it benefit the franchise.....

Until the M's learn how to trade quality players they have for quality pieces they need, they'll be in limbo and never contend.

Trades, along with farm building and acquiring free agents, are a cornerstone to any contending team.

They're especially important for a team like the M's because we're so dreadful at farm building and acquiring free agents.

I agree that Z and pretty much every other M's GM have sucked at it. It doesn't mean that it's not an integral part of long-term success for any team.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree, but I still believe we need to add assets before moving pieces around. Trading vets for more young talent is truly needed, but unfortunately Felix is the only guy that fits that description. When you really think about that, it really is a sad over view of the organization. Iwakuma ight be the next closest guy, but not sure you could get more back fr him that really helps overall. Maybe if you deal him for a bat and then sign two pitchers between Garza, Tanaka, Santana, Jimenez, Colon, and Arroyo then you come out on the better end of the total transaction. Something I wouldn't object to since Iwakuma is still unproven and is 32 with history of arm issues.

Would you deal him for Cespedes and Anderson? Would Oakland?

 

[cezero]

I have about as much faith in z and our front office acquiring assets through free agency as you all do in trades.

Not only do free agents not want to come here, but even if Z did want to go after them, I don't think nintendo will invest the kind of money year after year that it would take to acquire enough "assets" to be anywhere near contention...especially since we'll probably have to overpay to entice them to come in the first place.

It would be nice if our front office was like the Yankees and other big markets, and put revenue from $2 billion media deals like ours right back into the team, but we simply don't have that.

The best trades tend to be payroll neutral while still adding long-term quality to the team. Skilled front offices with a true focus on winning understand the necessity of it.

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

2 yr deal for Willie Bloomquist. Wow. See ya. It's the same old garbage. I'll be back IF the M's make a "decent or good" move and from what I've just seen that's highly doubtful. This team is F***ED.

 

[Banned 10x]

2 yr deal for Willie Bloomquist. Wow. See ya. It's the same old garbage. I'll be back IF the M's make a "decent or good" move and from what I've just seen that's highly doubtful. This team is F***ED.

This team.....

 

[gregrey972]

Ranger fan chiming in...rumors are that the M's may be willing to pay the $200M to sign Cano...that was surprising to me!

 

[unlvmariners]

Ranger fan chiming in...rumors are that the M's may be willing to pay the $200M to sign Cano...that was surprising to me!

Its hard for me to believe that the Mariners would be willing to pay that much money and that Cano would be willing to play in Seattle. I don't trust rumors about the Mariners and big name free agents.

 

[Banned 10x]

Its hard for me to believe that the Mariners would be willing to pay that much money and that Cano would be willing to play in Seattle. I don't trust rumors about the Mariners and big name free agents.

Every year the Mariners are the front runners for the big free agents and every year they finish in 2nd, and it's usually a distant 2nd.

 

[Thisnamewasntaken]

Ranger fan chiming in...rumors are that the M's may be willing to pay the $200M to sign Cano...that was surprising to me!

It's the reason I'm lurking now.haha

 

[wazzu31]

Pick a different player. Felix has lived up to his contract thus far. He's one of the top 10 pitcher in Baseball.

Does not matter if Felix is living up to his end if this is an organization is going to refuse to get big name free agents. Felix is one of the best pitchers in the game but just like how Z builds closers value up then just holds onto them instead of dealing them, they do nothing to further the growth of the organization. Without Felix the past 3 years what the Mariners wouldvd lost an extra 20 games?