Right Guard Redux: Jay Gruden On Right Guard: 'I Feel Good About That Spot'

[skinsdad62]

You apparently aren't either reading or understanding my posts. I'm NOT talking about the difference in value between players. I'm talking about the difference in value between draft picks. And we know what that general value is based on the Browns-Bills trade last year: a first and fourth rounder the next year. It makes ZERO difference if there's a little if no different in talent since, if the player holds a lower rank down a big board, that means you can get an otherwise talented player later. Thus, let's assume that Fowler is ranked at 9.4 out of 10 at the fifth overall spot and Scherff is a 9.6 at nine. There's a hairline difference in player value but, because Scherff still ranks out at nine, there's a huge difference in the draft pick value.

One example of this was the Raiders' selection of Robert Gallery with their second overall pick in 2004. He was a bust as a tackle but was a standout guard. (Does this sound like somebody we're talking about?) While the Raiders still got a solid interior linemen that served them well for several years, the Raiders still lost tremendous value with that pick. Why? Because they could've gotten someone like Gallery in third rounder. So, the value they gave up was the difference between a second overall pick and a third rounder, which was huge. And to illustrate how bad this was, you can look to players they passed up like Phillip Rivers, Big Ben, and Vince Wilfork. This is a shining of example of lost opportunity cost.

i have consistently stated that i have been talking about the players PERIOD you keep trying to debate me about BS that has nothing to do with what i have said now do i have to out vernon gholston for you ? . the raiders picked the wrong guy just like we blew it on RG3 so what ?

i dont care about the draft pick value , it means little if no one is willing to give you something for it its a phantom

you can lipstick on this pig all day long its still a pig

 

[redskinsfan]

i have consistently stated that i have been talking about the players PERIOD you keep trying to debate me about BS that has nothing to do with what i have said now do i have to out vernon gholston for you ? . the raiders picked the wrong guy just like we blew it on RG3 so what ?

i dont care about the draft pick value , it means little if no one is willing to give you something for it its a phantom

you can lipstick on this pig all day long its still a pig

Because draft pick value does matter when selecting players. If you don't think so, you've become Al Davis justifying taking Gallery with the second overall pick.

 

[skinsdad62]

Because draft pick value does matter when selecting players. If you don't think so, you've become Al Davis justifying taking Gallery with the second overall pick.

ok so what does your wonderful little draft chart say about drafting a 10 year starting RT/OG over drafting a 10 3rd down pass rush specialist ?

 

[redskinsfan]

ok so what does your wonderful little draft chart say about drafting a 10 year starting RT/OG over drafting a 10 3rd down pass rush specialist ?

You mean Dante Fowler, an OLB who can play immediately, at any position on the field, rush the passers and seal the edge on the run? And the Gallery point was to illustrate my point on value even where there are no trade partners. When Al Davis defended his use of the second overall pick by saying that Gallery turned out to be a darn good guard, he was laughed out of town? Why? Because (1) no one uses that pick for an OG and (2) the Raiders gave up on people like Rivers and Wilfork.

 

[skinsdad62]

You mean Dante Fowler, an OLB who can play immediately, at any position on the field, rush the passers and seal the edge on the run? And the Gallery point was to illustrate my point on value even where there are no trade partners. When Al Davis defended his use of the second overall pick by saying that Gallery turned out to be a darn good guard, he was laughed out of town? Why? Because (1) no one uses that pick for an OG and (2) the Raiders gave up on people like Rivers and Wilfork.

well fowler has one pass rush move (sound familiar Rak ?) doesnt have an elite 1st step , is raw as a pass rusher (sound familiar murphy ?)

and gallery was a bust as a player and wasnt even that great a OG

hell you guys ran out rak (fowler) out of town because he had one pass rush move despite 3 PBS and now you want another ?

 

[redskinsfan]

well fowler has one pass rush move (sound familiar Rak ?) doesnt have an elite 1st step , is raw as a pass rusher (sound familiar murphy ?)

and gallery was a bust as a player and wasnt even that great a OG

hell you guys ran out rak (fowler) out of town because he had one pass rush move despite 3 PBS and now you want another ?

I have no problem saying Rak was overrated, but one of his other major problems is with injury. Fowler does not have just one move and while he lacks an "elite" first step, he's a guy that can play multiple positions and rush the passer. With his skill set, he can complement Kerrigan really well in our defense. And Fowler isn't the only guy under consideration as Vic Beasley is too. I've got my reservations with him (as I do with all of the OLBs), but he's the type of pass rusher most teams covet.

And Gallery was a solid OG for Oakland after making the transition from OT. That was what prompted Al Davis and/or other Raiders execs to say that "hey, we didn't blow that #2 overall pick since we got a solid OG out of it." Does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, and that was despite passing on people like Vince Wilfork and Phillip Rivers, who the Raiders got to see twice every season for the past 11 years.

 

[skinsdad62]

I have no problem saying Rak was overrated, but one of his other major problems is with injury. Fowler does not have just one move and while he lacks an "elite" first step, he's a guy that can play multiple positions and rush the passer. With his skill set, he can complement Kerrigan really well in our defense. And Fowler isn't the only guy under consideration as Vic Beasley is too. I've got my reservations with him (as I do with all of the OLBs), but he's the type of pass rusher most teams covet.

And Gallery was a solid OG for Oakland after making the transition from OT. That was what prompted Al Davis and/or other Raiders execs to say that "hey, we didn't blow that #2 overall pick since we got a solid OG out of it." Does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, and that was despite passing on people like Vince Wilfork and Phillip Rivers, who the Raiders got to see twice every season for the past 11 years.

not what the scouts say . they say he has a club move and that is it

 

[redskinsfan]

not what the scouts say . they say he has a club move and that is it

Not what I'm hearing. He's got more than just that one move. The issue with him is that he's not as explosive as Gregory or Beasley. The upside Fowler brings is his versatility as a LB, his ability to immediately play in a 3-4, and his size makes him ideal to stop the run and feature him as three-down LB. Having said that, I've got issues with Fowler and each and very other OLB in the draft. So, my ideal option will be to trade down. We can still get an OG and OT later on in the draft that can anchor our line for the long term.

 

[skinsdad62]

so how is he different then murphy ?

 

[redskinsfan]

so how is he different then murphy ?

Murphy's positives are that he's strong and can stop the run. Fowler may not be as strong, but can stop the run just as well or as better than Murphy. While Fowler may not have that explosive first step as a Beasley or Gregory, he's got plenty of a first step to speed rush around tackles. He's clearly a better prospect than Murphy, though I'm willing to give Murphy a chance to show what he can do this year.

 

[skinsdad62]

Murphy's positives are that he's strong and can stop the run. Fowler may not be as strong, but can stop the run just as well or as better than Murphy. While Fowler may not have that explosive first step as a Beasley or Gregory, he's got plenty of a first step to speed rush around tackles. He's clearly a better prospect than Murphy, though I'm willing to give Murphy a chance to show what he can do this year.

the knock on him is he is raw as a pass rusher , he has only one move then club and swim and he doesnt have an explosive 1st step

now can that be overcome ? sure the same as sherfs flaws which you and others cant possibly believe

 

[redskinsfan]

the knock on him is he is raw as a pass rusher , he has only one move then club and swim and he doesnt have an explosive 1st step

now can that be overcome ? sure the same as sherfs flaws which you and others cant possibly believe

If Scherff is playing OT, he's got a huge flaw, that being pass pro. If he's playing OG, he's virtually flawless. The issue is whether we'd better off getting someone that may be not as talented at OG but still someone who can be a franchise OG for the next 10 years in addition to selecting another OT. I think the answer to that is obvious.

 

[skinsdad62]

If Scherff is playing OT, he's got a huge flaw, that being pass pro. If he's playing OG, he's virtually flawless. The issue is whether we'd better off getting someone that may be not as talented at OG but still someone who can be a franchise OG for the next 10 years in addition to selecting another OT. I think the answer to that is obvious.

the guy played LT in college ,not a huge stretch to say he can play RT in the pros

 

[redskinsfan]

the guy played LT in college ,not a huge stretch to say he can play RT in the pros

Uh yes, he is. Key word: "in college." Eric Crouch and Tim Tebow also played QB "in college." Look where that got them.

 

[skinsdad62]

still not a huge stretch

 

[redskinsfan]

still not a huge stretch

You're only as good as your weakest link. And for Scherff, that's pass protection. He got beat "in college" by speed rushers. What's that going to look like in the pros?

 

[skinsdad62]

tom brady through picks in college so did drew brees how did they work out ?

 

[redskinsfan]

tom brady through picks in college so did drew brees how did they work out ?

Those were fixable problems. The problem Scherff has is fundamental: he lacks the athleticism and footwork to hold off speed rushers. That's rarely fixable and with that big of an issue, there's no way I'd consider him an OT. If the NFL awarded him to us for free, I still wouldn't play him at OT.

 

[skinsdad62]

Those were fixable problems. The problem Scherff has is fundamental: he lacks the athleticism and footwork to hold off speed rushers. That's rarely fixable and with that big of an issue, there's no way I'd consider him an OT. If the NFL awarded him to us for free, I still wouldn't play him at OT.

if i had a nickel for everytime i heard he doesnt have the athletism and footwork to do something i would be rich . its called coaching

 

[martinez]

Well then we better not give up on long and moses