can we just textually shoot jason reid now ?

[Darrell Green Fan]

2011 NFL draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Try to use history as a gauge on this one. In 2011 the Redskins traded their pick to the Jags so they could select Gabbert. One pick later - the Texans selected JJ Watt who is now considered the best defensive player in the NFL. Several picks later the Skins selected Ryan Kerrigan who is the Redskins best defender at this time & expected to be a factor for quite a few more years.

So - does the team & do we as fans constantly lament that we could have had Watt? Perhaps on occasion but very rarely. Rather - we are very happy to have Ryan Kerrigan on the Redskins. The same should be true in this case if similar happens. You can't worry too much about woulda, shoulda, etc.

JJ Watt is constantly brought up as a cautionary tale when trading back is brought up. Me? I'm taking the best non-QB in the game over a pretty good player in Kerrigan every time. And so should you.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's not even close to what I said.

Then, please enlighten us. Would you have taken Williams over Scherff even if the later was a better fit and a better pick over all for the team??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Then, please enlighten us. Would you have taken Williams over Scherff even if the later was a better fit and a better pick over all for the team??

Good God are we really doing this dance again?????

This just in: The defensive line could use a young dominant player nearly as much as the offensive line. You are never wrong selecting the better player and in your scenario Williams is Reggie White and that's the better pick.

 

[Sharkinva]

Good God are we really doing this dance again?????

This just in: The defensive line could use a young dominant player nearly as much as the offensive line. You are never wrong selecting the better player and in your scenario Williams is Reggie White and that's the better pick.

Nope... because the pick has already been made. My hedged guess would be the GM thought Scherff was the better player. Either that or you are saying our GM did exactly what he said he wouldnt do and picked the lesser player in his opinion for need.

 

[redskinsfan]

Nope... because the pick has already been made. My hedged guess would be the GM thought Scherff was the better player. Either that or you are saying our GM did exactly what he said he wouldnt do and picked the lesser player in his opinion for need.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, shark: when I posed the Williams vs. Scherff hypo to you before the draft, you said you'd take Williams.

 

[Sharkinva]

But, correct me if I'm wrong, shark: when I posed the Williams vs. Scherff hypo to you before the draft, you said you'd take Williams.

Yep, I totally said I would have taken Williams based on taking what I would have considered the better player. But I also said repeatedly that i thought Scherff was the better player for this team. So yes if I were picking in a vacuum and team fit had NOTHING to do with it, sure I would have taken Williams. But unlike many around here I considered Scherff one of the top three in this draft class.

 

[redskinsfan]

Yep, I totally said I would have taken Williams based on taking what I would have considered the better player. But I also said repeatedly that i thought Scherff was the better player for this team. So yes if I were picking in a vacuum and team fit had NOTHING to do with it, sure I would have taken Williams. But unlike many around here I considered Scherff one of the top three in this draft class.

I don't remember that qualification, but I'll take you at your word. The vacuum part is another way of saying that you take the BPA period, without considering need. That's just dumb. For picks within the first three rounds, you need to consider need because those picks need to make an impact. The only teams that can get away with a straight BPA pick are perennial SB champs like GB that can layer talent. And that too is assuming they don't have pressing needs at other spots.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't remember that qualification, but I'll take you at your word. The vacuum part is another way of saying that you take the BPA period, without considering need. That's just dumb. For picks within the first three rounds, you need to consider need because those picks need to make an impact. The only teams that can get away with a straight BPA pick are perennial SB champs like GB that can layer talent. And that too is assuming they don't have pressing needs at other spots.

Since February I have been saying Scherff should be the pick. No flip flopping on that. I admitted that Williams likely would be the better player but that Scherff should be the pick for this team. I do accept that need likely played some factor in the pick. But I always thought Scherff was one of the top players in this draft. Now I think Williams will have a fine career. But I dont think he would have had the impact for us that Scherff should.

 

[redskinsfan]

Since February I have been saying Scherff should be the pick. No flip flopping on that. I admitted that Williams likely would be the better player but that Scherff should be the pick for this team. I do accept that need likely played some factor in the pick. But I always thought Scherff was one of the top players in this draft. Now I think Williams will have a fine career. But I dont think he would have had the impact for us that Scherff should.

Yep. Scherff may have been reach at #5, but he was worth it due to the abject we had at RT. I've got my doubts about Williams, but he's not my concern anymore. We could've gotten JJ Watt. But we didn't. Can't cry over that now.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

JJ Watt is constantly brought up as a cautionary tale when trading back is brought up. Me? I'm taking the best non-QB in the game over a pretty good player in Kerrigan every time. And so should you.

You are missing my point. You don't go through life nor your job with regrets about the moves you didn't make. The bottom line is that if the Redskins every year were able to draft a player like Kerrigan & several other relatively productive guys in later rounds they would be major contenders. I also love that as a Redskins fan you label Kerrigan as a "pretty good player" - whatever.

Message board posters can play this game all night long, but I don't expect nor want front office personnel to think in this manner. Again - they are building a team not simply 1 or 2 superstars ala the NBA.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Yep. Scherff may have been reach at #5, but he was worth it due to the abject we had at RT. I've got my doubts about Williams, but he's not my concern anymore. We could've gotten JJ Watt. But we didn't. Can't cry over that now.

Amen to that - that is exactly my point. The FO can perhaps learn from various moves or potential mistakes. However - you can't regret it excessively since it is done.

 

[redskinsfan]

Amen to that - that is exactly my point. The FO can perhaps learn from various moves or potential mistakes. However - you can't regret it excessively since it is done.

On the flip side, we got people like Alf and Breeland in, respectively, the sixth and fourth rounds. So, it can go both ways. The key is making it all work with what we've got. That's going to depend a lot on the coaching staff, in particular, Callahan and RGIII's willingness to keep an open mind and learn what he needs to learn.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

On the flip side, we got people like Alf and Breeland in, respectively, the sixth and fourth rounds. So, it can go both ways. The key is making it all work with what we've got. That's going to depend a lot on the coaching staff, in particular, Callahan and RGIII's willingness to keep an open mind and learn what he needs to learn.

There you go - the current FO is trying to change the overall culture - not just make a few good draft picks. This is about player development, scouting, financial restraint, etc. To infer that SM will be mainly judged on his 1st round pick & judged harshly even if the player is good but not the best is a joke (like the writer).

This is a long term process & should be judged on all rounds over the next several years & primarily on the overall results on the field. Reid must still have a bit of the WP still in him that forces him to take one of the most positive moves in ages for the Redskins & try to turn it into a negative. Such a bitter man.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Guys I am not playing games. The premise presented was Scherff was the right pick even if Williams turns into a Hall of Famer. And we should have no regrets passing over the best player int he game, a player capable of taking over games as he did agianst us in JJ Watt because the player we took instead turned out to be good. Sorry, those 2 positions make no sense to me and I really don't feel like spending a day arguing it.

I'm on board with Scherff, he's a Redskins and will be a damn good one. Why must I be dragged into threads where it looks like I"m not in support of the player?

And by the way Shark most certainly said before the draft that he would take Williams over Scherff, said it a number of times.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Guys I am not playing games. The premise presented was Scherff was the right pick even if Williams turns into a Hall of Famer. And we should have no regrets passing over the best player int he game, a player capable of taking over games as he did agianst us in JJ Watt because the player we took instead turned out to be good. Sorry, those 2 positions make no sense to me and I really don't feel like spending a day arguing it.

I'm on board with Scherff, he's a Redskins and will be a damn good one. Why must I be dragged into threads where it looks like I"m not in support of the player?

And by the way Shark most certainly said before the draft that he would take Williams over Scherff, said it a number of times.

List of Washington Redskins first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not stating that you or anyone else can't briefly regret any moves made or not made. However - we should not dwell on this. No FO is going to make the perfect pick every time & there is luck involved in all of this (just ask the Jags). The main thing is that if the Redskins can consistently draft well for the foreseeable future they should be fine. They don't have to draft the best guys every time & not always picking up a guy like Watt is not their big problem.

Their problem is continually either trading picks or making poor picks. Take a look at the link above for their history of 1st round picks - awful. Removing Taylor from the equation they really only have 2 1st rounders between 2001 & 2014 who likely will have made a long term, significant impact on this team. That is unacceptable. If they had say 4-5 more Ryan Kerrigan type picks during this time this team very likely would be in the playoffs.

Not looking for perfection - just looking for a solid organization that does things the correct way & makes more good moves than bad moves.

 

[skinsdad62]

To say that you're all wrong would be an exercise in mimicking the same concocted views. What seems to be the pattern here is an intolerance towards objective/ constructive criticism. Don't get me wrong, Shark did put Reid's POV into a well reasoned counter argument, but to show disdain for a writer because he clearly thinks ahead about a team that until recently has shown a propensity to take something good and turn it into garbage is frankly puzzling.

I have personally read posts from almost everyone here figuratively impaling decision makers and players on this team for bone headed moves and/or play, yet when a man asks a question that can only be answered in time, he becomes a tool? Really?

It seems, to be for some, a virtual impossibility to address what is written or said about this team. They instead find some twisted solace in attacking the messenger (s) while doing much the same themselves. I'm now curious. .........What exactly did J. Reid opine about that you find objectionable? Is it not true that Williams could in time prove to be a better choice? To be fair he could be, of the two the worse choice. Isn't it equally true that SM first draft here, with all of our hopes pinned to it, will garner our wrath if they all disappoint? Here's what I believe, J. Reid does not hide from writing about sports teams in this city, he takes into account the histories of current regimes then touch those sensitive areas, where fear lies in most of the following here. Areas that you attempt to hide with enthusiasm, then makes you think about it. Tell me I'm wrong, and if you're honest, admit that it's not Reid that you dislike/hate. It's really the fear that he could be right, given what to too, know about the team's history.

stymie my beef with reid is the same as with wise . they will hate on the skins no matter what they do . i expect my journalist to be fair and impartial and report the news and not add their political view point or in this case agenda into it . it this particular case reid was another sap advocating we need a pass rusher and bought the stupid line of "we will draft the BPA " that every GM says and now he wants to either back track or bash the pick .

Again not even close to what I said. I am evaluating the players, nothing more. You can't just take one player and cherry pick his situation as being on a great team and take another player and put him on a bottom feeder team and then ask me to pick which one I would take.

Of course I would take the better team. But that's not what we are talking about. If Williams is a Hall of Famer and Scherff is Jon Jansen then Williams was the better pick, end of story.

you are right on this . williams would have been the better pick as an individual if he becomes a HOf'r and scherf turns into jansen . for the record i said williams would be the only guy you could make a case for drafting over scherf but i believe scherf was a top 5 player and said it all along

You are missing my point. You don't go through life nor your job with regrets about the moves you didn't make. The bottom line is that if the Redskins every year were able to draft a player like Kerrigan & several other relatively productive guys in later rounds they would be major contenders. I also love that as a Redskins fan you label Kerrigan as a "pretty good player" - whatever.

you are right here as well

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

List of Washington Redskins first-round draft picks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not stating that you or anyone else can't briefly regret any moves made or not made. However - we should not dwell on this. No FO is going to make the perfect pick every time & there is luck involved in all of this (just ask the Jags). The main thing is that if the Redskins can consistently draft well for the foreseeable future they should be fine. They don't have to draft the best guys every time & not always picking up a guy like Watt is not their big problem.

Their problem is continually either trading picks or making poor picks. Take a look at the link above for their history of 1st round picks - awful. Removing Taylor from the equation they really only have 2 1st rounders between 2001 & 2014 who likely will have made a long term, significant impact on this team. That is unacceptable. If they had say 4-5 more Ryan Kerrigan type picks during this time this team very likely would be in the playoffs.

Not looking for perfection - just looking for a solid organization that does things the correct way & makes more good moves than bad moves.

I see where you are going and I'm obviously happy with the Kerrigan pick. But what we are discussing started with you saying hardly anyone says Kerrigan over Watt was a bad selection and that we should have few reservations. I just disagree, people constantly pointed to missing JJ Watt every time a trade down is discussed. As for few reservations sorry I don't see how you can say we have few reservations over Kerrigan when we could have had the best player in the game.

 

[redskinsfan]

I see where you are going and I'm obviously happy with the Kerrigan pick. But what we are discussing started with you saying hardly anyone says Kerrigan over Watt was a bad selection and that we should have few reservations. I just disagree, people constantly pointed to missing JJ Watt every time a trade down is discussed. As for few reservations sorry I don't see how you can say we have few reservations over Kerrigan when we could have had the best player in the game.

But we also got Jarvis Jenkins.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

But we also got Jarvis Jenkins.

Bingo! The rest of that draft was weak & until the current regime was considered by some to be the best Redskins draft in recent memory. If the Redskins biggest mistake is say taking the 9th best player when they should have drafted the 4th best player then they should still do very well assuming that they use the rest of their picks wisely, and they draft like this pretty much every year.

I don't seem to recall the Seahawks selecting any huge stars with their #1 picks & they have been in the past two SBs. However - they have drafted very wisely beyond that - better than the Texans who have all sorts of all-stars & potential all-stars on their team.

 

[ehb5]

Scherff can end up a good RT and help turn this team around and still not be the best possible pick we could have made at #5. There's nothing wrong with that.