rg3 was 7-8 in passing on 7 on 7 drills

[skinsdad62]

my principle has been you build the LOS 1st then pick the skill players always has always will be .

i dont like gutting drafts for one player

the fact is if RG3 fails it hurts the team and i could care less about "i told you so's " because my core principles wont change . build the LOS and then get skilled players . not gut 2 drafts and hope we get the right "franchise qb " lucky we didnt do that with braford or sanchez eh ?

what needs to be done is to forget what was paid for him and stop having your hatred of the trade transfer to the kid . support our qb . hope he has a great year and stop worrying about how many "i told you so's " you will get . me personally i would eat that crow gladly

i think RG3 will take another step in the right direction if he doesnt then "houston we have a problem "

by the way if he fails then my original premise would have been proven truthful and why you dont gut drafts to take bradford sanchez and perhaps RG3

 

[j_y19]

Socal... I will simply ask this. If it turns out IM wrong and RG3 does in fact become a complete "franchise" QB. How many I told you so's do you think I will have to deal with? HOw much pressure to admit I was wrong?? Hell for two years from the moment we made the trade I have been told how wrong and stupid I was for having my own opinion about the player and the trade.

In light of that, if I turn out to be right.. .would you seriously begrudge me an I told you so?? Because if I turn out to be wrong, I will likely never hear the end of it.

Shark, you have every right to your opinion and to tell folks you were right if he turns into a bust. My frustration with your position is you seem to hold Robert responsible for what we paid and I think your expectations for any young QB, no matter what we paid, is out of whack. As I said before, we paid for the potential, not the finished product out of college. We over paid, no doubt. But before we declare it a bad move and Robert a bust, lets give him a chance. 2 years, especially one where he was injured and was a wasted year, is just way to early to say he can or can't be an impact QB in this league. It takes almost all QBs 3-5 years in the league before they start to become an impact player. Robert will be no different, no matter what we paid. This will be a telling year. If he doesn't make strides as an NFL caliber player, then I too will become worried.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal... I will simply ask this. If it turns out IM wrong and RG3 does in fact become a complete "franchise" QB. How many I told you so's do you think I will have to deal with? HOw much pressure to admit I was wrong?? Hell for two years from the moment we made the trade I have been told how wrong and stupid I was for having my own opinion about the player and the trade.

In light of that, if I turn out to be right.. .would you seriously begrudge me an I told you so?? Because if I turn out to be wrong, I will likely never hear the end of it.

Cmon - I am sure that you are better than that. If RG3 becomes a very good QB (I have no idea what it means to be a "franchise QB" - that is a bogus media term) then I would also assume that means that the Redskins are doing well & winning! I would expect in that case that you would be thrilled to death!

Who cares about the "I told you so's"? Likewise - if you are correct so be it & won't be worried about you being right. I will be much more concerned about the fact that it probably means that the Redskins are having a bad season. The success of RG3 or any other player means much, much less to me than the success of the team.

If you were a Cowboys or Eagles fan I would completely understand your point. However - with you being a Redskins fan this confuses me. I would like to hope you care more about the success of the team then in being right. I have never understood this mentality. Like I said - I will gladly be 100% wrong (and take whatever comes with that) if it means that the Redskins are doing very well.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Socal... I will simply ask this. If it turns out IM wrong and RG3 does in fact become a complete "franchise" QB. How many I told you so's do you think I will have to deal with? HOw much pressure to admit I was wrong?? Hell for two years from the moment we made the trade I have been told how wrong and stupid I was for having my own opinion about the player and the trade.

In light of that, if I turn out to be right.. .would you seriously begrudge me an I told you so?? Because if I turn out to be wrong, I will likely never hear the end of it.

I for one, won't say I told ya so, if Griff does well. All I care about is the future success of this franchise and the team.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

my principle has been you build the LOS 1st then pick the skill players always has always will be .

i dont like gutting drafts for one player

the fact is if RG3 fails it hurts the team and i could care less about "i told you so's " because my core principles wont change . build the LOS and then get skilled players . not gut 2 drafts and hope we get the right "franchise qb " lucky we didnt do that with braford or sanchez eh ?

what needs to be done is to forget what was paid for him and stop having your hatred of the trade transfer to the kid . support our qb . hope he has a great year and stop worrying about how many "i told you so's " you will get . me personally i would eat that crow gladly

i think RG3 will take another step in the right direction if he doesnt then "houston we have a problem "

by the way if he fails then my original premise would have been proven truthful and why you dont gut drafts to take bradford sanchez and perhaps RG3

Nicely summed up, skinsdad

 

[Sharkinva]

Socal... I do care more about the team than the player in almost every aspect. Thing is, I think they made a bad move in giving up so much on this particular player and in the long run I think it will hurt the team. I have a feeling that even if he is only slightly above average over the next two years, we will still give him a deal on par with some of the other QB contracts recently handed out... thus continuing to hurt the team. And yes I do think that his value going forward will be skewed not so much by his performance, but based on what we already gave up to get him.

As for Skinsdads take on Sanchez and Bradford... at the time we did have a better team in place and would have been in a better position to make that kind of move. (Never Mind I thought both were a better fit to transition to a complete QB coming out of school). Would have been much better say in 2010 when Shanahan first got here as apposed to when we did finally make the move. BUt once again thats my opinion based on what I expected from both players at the time.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal... I do care more about the team than the player in almost every aspect. Thing is, I think they made a bad move in giving up so much on this particular player and in the long run I think it will hurt the team. I have a feeling that even if he is only slightly above average over the next two years, we will still give him a deal on par with some of the other QB contracts recently handed out... thus continuing to hurt the team. And yes I do think that his value going forward will be skewed not so much by his performance, but based on what we already gave up to get him.

As for Skinsdads take on Sanchez and Bradford... at the time we did have a better team in place and would have been in a better position to make that kind of move. (Never Mind I thought both were a better fit to transition to a complete QB coming out of school). Would have been much better say in 2010 when Shanahan first got here as apposed to when we did finally make the move. BUt once again thats my opinion based on what I expected from both players at the time.

Pretty much any half way decent QB at this time is going to command a very big contract. If the guy is considered a long term QB he will get a big contract & RG3 fits into this category barring disaster over the next few seasons.

It still sounds like you are almost hoping for the guy to fail. Why isn't one of the possibilities the fact that RG3 might shine & in the process make the Redskins much better? Why are your only possibilities they he will either be a bust or a very avg QB?

I also believe that they are in a position to upgrade all positions over the next few seasons. Issues in that area over the last several seasons were not simply the result of the RG3 trade. They were also due to other issues such as the cap penalities & problems due to the fact that Shanahan was a complete control freak. Instead of worrying so much about all of the "what ifs" how about holding out some hope & actually potentially enjoying the upcoming season?

 

[Sharkinva]

Pretty much any half way decent QB at this time is going to command a very big contract. If the guy is considered a long term QB he will get a big contract & RG3 fits into this category barring disaster over the next few seasons.

It still sounds like you are almost hoping for the guy to fail. Why isn't one of the possibilities the fact that RG3 might shine & in the process make the Redskins much better? Why are your only possibilities they he will either be a bust or a very avg QB?

I also believe that they are in a position to upgrade all positions over the next few seasons. Issues in that area over the last several seasons were not simply the result of the RG3 trade. They were also due to other issues such as the cap penalities & problems due to the fact that Shanahan was a complete control freak. Instead of worrying so much about all of the "what ifs" how about holding out some hope & actually potentially enjoying the upcoming season?

Because to me he was simply an upgraded version of Mike Vick who we over paid to get. Thus I have very little expectation he will turn into more than well an upgraded version of Vick minus the off field issues.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Because to me he was simply an upgraded version of Mike Vick who we over paid to get. Thus I have very little expectation he will turn into more than well an upgraded version of Vick minus the off field issues.

OK. Do you even want him to do well over the next few seasons?

 

[Sharkinva]

OK. Do you even want him to do well over the next few seasons?

I either want him to light it up or fail miserably. What i dont want is him to be average or slightly above and we commit more time and resources to him if he is only average. Been there, done that. So yea, to me there is no middle ground, because middle ground does more harm than good for the team.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

QB tutor: RG3 looks '100 percent healthy'


Good article on this subject from several months ago. I think it is not necessarily accurate to believe that RG3 was much worse last year simply because teams "figured him out". There is the issue of the injury, the brace, the supporting cast & - as mentioned in this article - perhaps coaching that fell short. This season will provide a good test & I would not be too shocked if we see big improvements for RG3.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I either want him to light it up or fail miserably. What i dont want is him to be average or slightly above and we commit more time and resources to him if he is only average. Been there, done that. So yea, to me there is no middle ground, because middle ground does more harm than good for the team.

Why would any Redskins fan hope for their starting QB to "fail miserably"? Weren't you the one who stated that any team should be built to win it all every year & not just focus on the future? If so - why would you want the team to be put in a position where they have to rebuild again & wait 3-4 more years to have any real hope?

What if RG3 is average yet developing to the pt where he fulfills his potential in another year or so? I am confused on this one. Oh well.

 

[Sharkinva]

Why would any Redskins fan hope for their starting QB to "fail miserably"? Weren't you the one who stated that any team should be built to win it all every year & not just focus on the future? If so - why would you want the team to be put in a position where they have to rebuild again & wait 3-4 more years to have any real hope?

What if RG3 is average yet developing to the pt where he fulfills his potential in another year or so? I am confused on this one. Oh well.

Socal... weather or not you want to admit it, we didnt make the deal for a 3-5 year project player. I know some will say its not fair to hold the player accountable to live up to the deal that was made to get him. But reality is, outside the glass bubble of homerdom, RG3 DOES need to live up to his draft position and the deal that was used to get him. And yes I would rather see him fail than just turn out to be average and the team commit another 4-5 years to an average QB. So he either needs to be the franchise QB we moved up to draft, or fail. Average wont cut it.

 

[j_y19]

Socal... weather or not you want to admit it, we didnt make the deal for a 3-5 year project player. I know some will say its not fair to hold the player accountable to live up to the deal that was made to get him. But reality is, outside the glass bubble of homerdom, RG3 DOES need to live up to his draft position and the deal that was used to get him. And yes I would rather see him fail than just turn out to be average and the team commit another 4-5 years to an average QB. So he either needs to be the franchise QB we moved up to draft, or fail. Average wont cut it.

Since I'm the one that said we paid for his potential and that you can't hold it against him for what we paid, let me clarify. Yes, RG3 will have to eventually produce to a level that makes the cost worthwhile or the trade/draft was a bad one. But it is not realistic for anyone to expect him to do it in years 1 or 2 and, in some cases, year 3. You appear to believe that since we paid so much for him, he should have been the best QB in the league the minute he stepped on the field. I just think that is both unrealistic and unfair. No matter what we paid, he was still a 20 year old kid fresh out of college. He has holes in his game that must be addressed. In a way, the previous coaching staff may have stunted his growth by using the offense they did the first 2 years. Maybe the better long term strategy was to put him in a more typical NFL offense and let him make the same mistakes that all young QBs make as they learn the position. He might be further ahead in his development.

As for RG3 earning his pay (or justifying what we paid for him), those returns may not come until years 4-10. Or they may start this year. Or he may never justify it. That's the point. We don't know, but it is way too early to say he is more likely to be a bust than a star, which is where you appear to be.

 

[Sharkinva]

Since I'm the one that said we paid for his potential and that you can't hold it against him for what we paid, let me clarify. Yes, RG3 will have to eventually produce to a level that makes the cost worthwhile or the trade/draft was a bad one. But it is not realistic for anyone to expect him to do it in years 1 or 2 and, in some cases, year 3. You appear to believe that since we paid so much for him, he should have been the best QB in the league the minute he stepped on the field. I just think that is both unrealistic and unfair. No matter what we paid, he was still a 20 year old kid fresh out of college. He has holes in his game that must be addressed. In a way, the previous coaching staff may have stunted his growth by using the offense they did the first 2 years. Maybe the better long term strategy was to put him in a more typical NFL offense and let him make the same mistakes that all young QBs make as they learn the position. He might be further ahead in his development.

As for RG3 earning his pay (or justifying what we paid for him), those returns may not come until years 4-10. Or they may start this year. Or he may never justify it. That's the point. We don't know, but it is way too early to say he is more likely to be a bust than a star, which is where you appear to be.

j_y... he should have been the best QB in his draft class no matter what offense you put him in. Im not sure he would have fared as well had we not incorporated the college elements we did. And for him to live up to what we gave up he needs to be well above average by year four. If he is merely average or slightly above average... I would have to consider the trade a bad deal. So considering what we paid for him, and now the talent around him... if we arent in the playoffs (deep in the playoffs) in 2015, and the team remained relatively healthy.... well what can you say??

And where i am is, from day one I thought he was Vick+, today I still think he is Vick+. And i thought we would have been better off passing on him.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

j_y... he should have been the best QB in his draft class no matter what offense you put him in. Im not sure he would have fared as well had we not incorporated the college elements we did. And for him to live up to what we gave up he needs to be well above average by year four. If he is merely average or slightly above average... I would have to consider the trade a bad deal. So considering what we paid for him, and now the talent around him... if we arent in the playoffs (deep in the playoffs) in 2015, and the team remained relatively healthy.... well what can you say??

And where i am is, from day one I thought he was Vick+, today I still think he is Vick+. And i thought we would have been better off passing on him.

Your statement about 2015 is fair enough & for the most part I agree. What is not fair is all of this prejudgment & having expectations for the guy starting on day one & expecting no setbacks ever. Using that logic Brees, E. Manning, Favre, etc would have never lasted in the NFL & a guy like Kurt Warner would have never even stepped on the field.

You appear to give whatever credit is due to him to the Shanahans. Did you ever stop & think that perhaps those same Shanahans were also partially responsible for his downfall last season? You can make an argument for that for several reasons.

This whole "shoulda, woulda, coulda" logic is also a complete waste of time. RG3 should be the QB if he produces (like in year one) - not because of how he was acquired & constantly worrying about how many picks were traded for him is just an exercise in futility. I also laugh at the Vick comparison. Beyond being mobile how exactly is he just like Vick? There are many differences between the two.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

j_y... he should have been the best QB in his draft class no matter what offense you put him in.

Cmon - we may all be a bit biased, but can you actually make a statement like this for a draft class that included Andrew Luck?

 

[Sharkinva]

Cmon - we may all be a bit biased, but can you actually make a statement like this for a draft class that included Andrew Luck?

Again dude, had we traded up that much to get Luck... sure no problem. But we traded up to get an option QB. Had we gotten him at #6 where we were and he only cost one pick no problem.

Sadly neither of those conditions exist.

 

[j_y19]

j_y... he should have been the best QB in his draft class no matter what offense you put him in. Im not sure he would have fared as well had we not incorporated the college elements we did. And for him to live up to what we gave up he needs to be well above average by year four. If he is merely average or slightly above average... I would have to consider the trade a bad deal. So considering what we paid for him, and now the talent around him... if we arent in the playoffs (deep in the playoffs) in 2015, and the team remained relatively healthy.... well what can you say??

And where i am is, from day one I thought he was Vick+, today I still think he is Vick+. And i thought we would have been better off passing on him.

How do you know he won't turn out to be the best? If we go by a QB's first couple of years, Aikman would be considered the worst QB ever. There are numerous other examples of HOF QBs that plain sucked their first few years. No doubt the offense the Shanahan's employed helped him achieve the success he did. But it may have delayed his development into more of a stereotypical NFL QB, so it was a double edged sword.

But I agree that if by year 4 he hasn't begun to emerge as an elite QB, then we may have a problem. As far as you claiming he was Vick+, I will acknowledge that you were against the trade from the beginning. I will also point out that after year 1 and before his off the field shenanigans, you were firmly behind the kid and used the term franchise QB often, especially on the Cowboys board. It was his attitude and statements in that offseason that soured you on Robert.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Again dude, had we traded up that much to get Luck... sure no problem. But we traded up to get an option QB. Had we gotten him at #6 where we were and he only cost one pick no problem.

Sadly neither of those conditions exist.

Let me get this straight. Simply because multiple picks were traded for RG3 he should be the best QB from that draft class - no questions asked? What? That is ridiculous. I certainly hope that the team never implied that to him since that is a good way to screw up a young player's head.

Again - the trade is over & done with - why focus on it so much? If you are so worried about the QB position worry about it since we all don't want to suffer through another rebuild - not because of some trade from several years ago that can't be undone.