Rees doesn't deserve blame.

[purguy12]

with Daniels and Robinson throw up to them and give them a chance. Those are some big WR. Then you have sure hands with TJ.

 

[craigk217]

I think BK's philosophy is -- go with the experienced QB who knows how to read a defense (however limited his abilities might be), until he starts screwing the pooch big time, which he hasn't done and, hopefully, won't do. If he does, then we put in the youngsters ... what do we have to lose at that point? I don't much have a prob with Purguy's theory of rotating a QB if the situation might warrant it, but only if we have a comfortable lead. There are several pro's/con's with Rees (I'd say most of them valid), but I'll go with the experienced, immobile, senior QB who can read a defense pre-snap at this point who is managing the games and getting wins rather than gamble with an unknown factor in playing the younger guys.

 

[craigk217]

at the risk of starting a fued ..... i think YOU don't get it craig. i really think everyone here knows perfectly well that we are stuck with rees. i don't think anyone is suggesting there's much to be done about it. (we also know throwing the rookies in could do more harm than good and hendrix would be no upgrade). HOWEVER .... it is the right .... nay ... the DUTY of fans to grouse over crappy situations our teams find themselves in and no amount of "get over it guys" or "i'm tired of hearing's" or whatnot will change that. lord knows i've seen you grouse over things that you know are unchangable (see all your complaints about bk) .... so please ..... ease up. let us bitch and moan when the urge hits. it's our god-given right!

No feuds here Iddy ... I get ya and what the rest are saying, but it just seems like yall pile on Rees so much it sounds like all the blame is put on him. My biggest gripe(s) with Kelly is his play calling by giving up on the run too much and going pass-happy which, in turn, puts the game on Rees' shoulders. Not the wisest move(s) in my opinion and Tommy takes most (if not all) of the heat for his "dumb" play calls and, sometimes, piss-poor management of his offense. It's almost like he sets Rees/ND up for failure when he wants him to pass more often than he should. To say Rees is just absolutely horrible and the repeated calls for benching him and put somebody better in (when there isn't really a better option) is what makes me shake my head when my fellow Domers have their knee-jerk reactions to a bad play/series everytime it happens. I say BK is just as much at fault when this team "struggles" on offense ... it's not all on Tommy, as most people like to point the finger that way. I agree with the majority that Rees had a very subpar game against a VERY STOUT MSU defense ... I do believe most QBs will against that tough D. Isn't it ironic that the expectations of this team's strongpoints have flip-flopped? It's the offense winning the games, not so much the defense ... ? ? ? I, again, say we are lucky that MSU's QB/offense is just plain bad or this game might not have turned out the way it did. If we keep playing defense like we have been against OU ... OMG ... standby for a long game for us Irish fans.

 

[whywork2]

I by no means am calling for Tommy Rees to be benched, far from it. But I would have no problem seeing Andrew Hendrix get a series or two and add another dimension to this highly predictable offense.

 

[craigk217]

Can have running game when D's stack 8 in the box, because they know Rees cant throw the ball. So yes it is Rees fault why we have no running game. The kid doesn't do anything good. Defenses no that and that is why they stack 8 and their CB play up close to the WR. Oh yeah Defense knows he cant run either.

I beg to differ. Rees can throw the ball when he's given time. Maybe not 60 yds down the field on a dime like many would like him to do, but given time, he usually delivers accurate passes. You say he doesn't do ANYTHING good ... does astute, pre-snap reading of defenses and carrying this team to wins say anything??? Wins = nothing good? That's all he's ever done ... maybe not prettily or spectacularly, but he somehow manages to get wins ... remember how many times he had to come in and bail this team out last year to GET THE WIN? That statement is rather absurd IMO ... no offense, mind you, but c'mon man ... he gets wins! It's a double edge sword with him, the play calling and the "lack of a running game" cuz the coach wont play to that. Let's just be honest with ourseleves here ... this team is not what many of us thought it was gonna be this year ... especially on the D side of the ball and it's been a hit & miss pretty much every game, so far. This coaching staff needs to bear down on these guys, forget last year, and start REALLY coaching this team and prepare them for a 60 minute game of football.

 

[craigk217]

with Daniels and Robinson throw up to them and give them a chance. Those are some big WR. Then you have sure hands with TJ.

LOL ... and when that "throw it up to them" concept turns into unnecessary INTs ... then what ... Tommy's fault cuz he just "threw it up there"??? Man, am I glad you're not the OC.

:rollseyes:

 

[idseer]

I beg to differ. Rees can throw the ball when he's given time. Maybe not 60 yds down the field on a dime like many would like him to do, but given time, he usually delivers accurate passes. You say he doesn't do ANYTHING good ... does astute, pre-snap reading of defenses and carrying this team to wins say anything??? Wins = nothing good? That's all he's ever done ... maybe not prettily or spectacularly, but he somehow manages to get wins ... remember how many times he had to come in and bail this team out last year to GET THE WIN? That statement is rather absurd IMO ... no offense, mind you, but c'mon man ... he gets wins! It's a double edge sword with him, the play calling and the "lack of a running game" cuz the coach wont play to that. Let's just be honest with ourseleves here ... this team is not what many of us thought it was gonna be this year ... especially on the D side of the ball and it's been a hit & miss pretty much every game, so far. This coaching staff needs to bear down on these guys, forget last year, and start REALLY coaching this team and prepare them for a 60 minute game of football.

i guess i can understand you standing up for rees. no one else wants to!
let's look at your points here ....
"can throw the ball when he's given time" ... well, who can't?
"Maybe not 60 yds down the field on a dime (i'll interpret this as 'catchable') like many would like him to do" ... or 50, 40, 30 or even 20 yards most of the time. i'm aware of his completion %, but what i'd like to see is what kind of passes are we talking about ... behind the line of scrimmage? completion % is a cool stat ... but it is NOT comprehensive!
"he somehow manages to get wins" really? the credit goes to him?
and you have to stop blaming the coach for everything here. to say he reads the defense greatly and then blame the coach for the result of a play is a little disingenuous. either he reads the defense and CALLS the plays himself or he doesn't read as well as he's given credit for. you can't have it both ways.
"remember how many times he had to come in and bail this team out last year to GET THE WIN?" ok, i know of one game where he came in ... and they ended up with the win. all due to tommy? i don't think so. i say MANY of his wins came in spite of his own play and because of the team. if you like i can break this down and show you how he actually did in some of these games

again ... no one is blaming rees for all of nd's problems this season ... but for you to suggest EVERYONE is wrong about rees is a little silly. there's a reason he's lost the starting job twice before and was handed it this year only because they lost their REAL quarterback. HE'S NOT VERY GOOD! i don't care that he's been behind the center for more wins than losses .... i don't care that he is among the statistical leaders of nd qb's in a few catagories. it only proves that stats don't mean everything.

you've tried pointing out the good... now let me point out the bad: over all, the great majority of his statistical success has come against lower tier teams. his 34 td's lose a little shine when weighed against his 24 interceptions and 5 fumbles often at critical times and his MINUS 71 yards lifetime rushing. they don't call him turnover tommy for nothing. it's only circumstance that has allowed him to play so many games and rack up stats for nd. crist going down, twice and golson going down.
he may be a good guy (i don't know) or he may be a good teammate, but he stinks as a quarterback! after this season his football-playing career will be over! all i can say is ... THANK GOD!

 

[purguy12]

Love how people say he can read a Defense. That is so false. The guy throws Int and he throws to the wrong WR all the time. I don't buy it.

Craig Im talking about throwing to them to give them a chance to catch it. Not 15 yards Out of Bounds. Most of those balls were 1 on 1. Give them a chance.

Craig- 100% BLAME Rees for not having a running game this year. Teams know that he cant pass. Hence 8 in the box at all times. Hard to run when you always face 8 people in the box.

Craig- I do agree with you that Kelly is to blame also and I also blame Diaco.

Im just stating That Rees is hurting this team more then Helping. I know we are stuck with him but I rather see us start going another direction. If that means play Hendrix every once awhile do it. If it is to play the Freshman do it. This team isn't making to a BCS bowl with Rees as the starter and with the D playing how it is. So whats the difference if we go 9-3 with Rees or 9-3 or 8-4 with the Freshman or Hendrix. At least if we play the Freshman or give him some snaps he gets experience.

 

[purguy12]

I agree with Idseer. He doesn't read the D well. If he manages the game well Nd would look better. A good game manager is Alex Smith of KC. That's a Game manager. Rees not so much.

I know college and NFL different but it still the same meaning.

 

[Lillyliverd]

Let's compare Rees with Smith:

Rees is a college player that will never be a pro.
Smith is a 9 year NFL veteran taken in the 1st round.
Rees plays on one of the worst rushing teams in college
Smith plays on one of the better rushing teams in the NFL
The Chiefs defense has given up 2 touchdowns.
The Irish defense has given up 9 touchdowns.

It really helps a QB to "manage" a game when he has a good defense and some sort of a running game.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Interesting debate here.

I just think there is a lot more to blame than just Rees himself.

I'm going to focus the majority of my blame on the very simple, very basic, and very predictable offensive and defensive schemes. In all fairness to Kelly, I think our offensive scheme is simple because of who is at QB.

 

[Lillyliverd]

When I created the OP, it was prior to the MSU game. Rees played poorly against MSU and he deserves criticism for his performance in that game. I understand that if we had a mobile QB it could loosen up the opposing defense some and could help our running game.

However, to say that Rees's immobility is the reason our running game sucks is preposterous.
The Irish had an immobile quarterback by the name of Tommy Rees back in 2011. The interesting thing is; Notre Dame had a good running game back then. How can that be? The reason we have no running game is because we don't have play maker running backs and our line has played like shit! We could get by with average backs if there was some damned daylight to run through every once in awhile!

Lots of pressure on Rees when the team relies on him to move the chains because running it won't work. Then, when we pass I really dread the spread. I would like the spread better if we had a mobile QB, but Rees isn't gonna kill you with a draw or sweep so everyone knows it will be a pass. Also I would like the spread more if we were playing a team that wasn't deep enough to cover the extra receivers, but we haven't seen many wide open receivers out of the spread. Also, I prefer having a back in the backfield. A back gives some nice options like run, draw, flat pass, delay route, or blocking. I don't think Rees fits the spread offense and I blame the coaches for that. And why the hell was he throwing all those deep balls. Low percentage throws for any QB. Didn't see many slants. Bunch of garbage pass plays and I am sure the coaches were calling the plays.

How about the running game against MSU? We rushed for 78 yards. "8 in the box" doesn't mean you can't run. It just means you need to knock 8 guys on their ass. Ask Stanford.

I'm not yet convinced the defense has turned the corner. MSU's offense was pathetic. Tommy has some issues but the concerns I have about Rees as our QB are nothing like my concerns for our defense, offensive line, special teams and play calling. We have a bunch of problems with this team and Rees is about the least of them.

 

[craigk217]

i guess i can understand you standing up for rees. no one else wants to!

"he somehow manages to get wins" really? the credit goes to him?
and you have to stop blaming the coach for everything here.

again ... no one is blaming rees for all of nd's problems this season ... but for you to suggest EVERYONE is wrong about rees is a little silly. there's a reason he's lost the starting job twice before and was handed it this year only because they lost their REAL quarterback. HE'S NOT VERY GOOD!

I'm not so much standing up for his play ... I'm just saying get off the guys nads sooooo much and stop blaming him for every little thing he does wrong ... no QB is perfect ... NONE. I know he's not the greatest QB and I've said that many times over and that I am no fan of Rees. I just laugh at how every little thing he does wrong gets all the attention and tends to get blown out of proportion by alot of fellow fans on this forum.

I dont recall blaming Kelly for everything ... I was just trying to point out that much of the finger pointing at Rees could also very well be pointed at BK, as well, with his boneheaded and oft nonsensical play calling. I mean how many times have we seen him want to heave the ball down the field on a 2nd/3rd & short, trying to be cute/tricky, when all we needed was a simple 1st down to keep a drive alive. I have not blamed him for everything ... that's ridiculous. Have I pointed our HC's faults ... yes. Many would have to agree with me on this one ... his play calling is many times very suspect and sets this team up for struggles/failures when he does this. Rees cannot control what plays get sent in and BK's philosophy on running an offense.

Again, I'm not suggesting EVERYONE is wrong ... I'm suggesting stop trying to put the onus of all the Irish woes on our non-athletic QB and seemingly blaming him for every little thing wrong with the offense when the Irish have a bad play/series ... that's all. It seems most of the complaints are piled onto Rees, his inability to run, his weak arm, throwing the ball away (when it is probably the smart move), or his general lack of athleticism. We know who he is, so why all of the piling on the guy when we already know what he does/doesnt have when certain plays/situation dont work when the coach has a tendency to "set him up for failure". Again ... I'm way far away from ever being a Rees fan ... I'm just saying the guy has done what he has been able to do with this offense and the offense is what is winning us our games this year ... not the defense. The defense is where the fault lies with this team, but everyone seems to want to put the onus on Rees' sucky capabilities and subpar play everytime something goes haywire. I guess what I'm saying is stop nit-picking the guy for who/what he is and really start bitching about where the problem with this team really lies ... Diaco and his swiss-cheese, poor tackling defense.

 

[idseer]

craig ... no argument that there are several places to place blame for this team as it stands right now. this particular thread tho is pretty much about rees supposedly being blameless because of his stats. the op is suggesting he's not to blame at all and i am disagreeing with this sentiment.

i doubt there's anyone here who in fact lays all our problems at rees's feet. i think you exaggerate this point a little too much. i would ask right now .... IS ANYONE OUT THERE SUGGESTING ALL OUR PROBLEMS ARE REES'S FAULT?

i doubt we'll get any yea's.

 

[purguy12]

I agree there are many problems:
1)rees(just doesnt give us anything)
2)Diaco(all that talent and he cant find the right packages to use)
3)Kelly(poor offensive game plan. Easy to read)
4) Special teams(Punting getting better)
5)No Run game(I blame Oline, Rees, and Kelly for not trying all RBs. Give up on GA3 play the young guys)
6)Secondary(Took a step back.)
7) MLBs (they just stink)

 

[craigk217]

craig ... no argument that there are several places to place blame for this team as it stands right now. this particular thread tho is pretty much about rees supposedly being blameless because of his stats. the op is suggesting he's not to blame at all and i am disagreeing with this sentiment.

i doubt there's anyone here who in fact lays all our problems at rees's feet. i think you exaggerate this point a little too much. i would ask right now .... IS ANYONE OUT THERE SUGGESTING ALL OUR PROBLEMS ARE REES'S FAULT?

i doubt we'll get any yea's.

Agreed Iddy ... but it seems the primary blame from most always seems to be put on Rees ... he's the first one/thing that everybody starts wanking about when things arent going "right" in Domerland. It seems peeps are locked & loaded for him to make a mistake/bad play and BAMMMMMM ... let the hail, fire & brimstone commence on the guy. He is always the first thing peeps start bitching about and I dont understand why, when it's the defense that shares the brunt of the blame, IMO. Case in point ... see above ... Rees listed first. Case in point ... read the game threads ... Rees blamed first in most cases. It's the defense screwing the pooch mostly ... not Turnover Tommy (8 TDs ... 2 INTs).

 

[idseer]

Agreed Iddy ... but it seems the primary blame from most always seems to be put on Rees ... he's the first one/thing that everybody starts wanking about when things arent going "right" in Domerland. It seems peeps are locked & loaded for him to make a mistake/bad play and BAMMMMMM ... let the hail, fire & brimstone commence on the guy. He is always the first thing peeps start bitching about and I dont understand why, when it's the defense that shares the brunt of the blame, IMO. Case in point ... see above ... Rees listed first. Case in point ... read the game threads ... Rees blamed first in most cases. It's the defense screwing the pooch mostly ... not Turnover Tommy (8 TDs ... 2 INTs).

simple! he's been bad for 4 years. defense only for 1

 

[craigk217]

simple! he's been bad for 4 years. defense only for 1

Correction there, pal ... the defense was very suspect 3-4 yrs ago, also.

 

[bbirish73]

I'm not fan of Rees but he does an excellent job with his limited abilities. He is not the problem this year. I put most of the blame on the secondary. They can't cover and can't make open field tackles. I thought they would be a strong link this year but I was wrong.

 

[Irish7478]

For three years I've been saying that Andrew Hendrix would take over as the starter based on his arm strength and mobility. I'm starting to think it may never happen. I would still love to see him on the field, as a major part of the offense, but I think that window is starting to close. This might be his best last chance to have a positive impact on the team for this year.