Re: Felix...Is he about done?

[AceKeptic]

Before you rate this one, I should clarify:

I've been seeing the articles about Felix and how age might be starting to take its toll on him a little bit.

But given what happened tonight, at home, against the worst team in the AL, you can't help but be concerned.

But rather than give my viewpoint on this, I'll leave it up to you all to discuss.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I missed the game... What happened ? I thought for sure this was a win, worst team in the AL, Felix on the mound... @$#%&^@$

 

[Cloud]

No, I don't think he's done but he's for sure not the same pitcher we used to seeing. As he's getting older, I think he's re-inventing himself on how to pitch because he's not a flame-thrower like he used to be when he first came up to the Bigs. Remember that he used to throw 96-97 and now his average velocity on the fastball is 92-94.

When I say he's re-inventing himself, I meant he's actually pitching and not just throwing. There's a lot of reason behind it but let's not forget he's has A LOT of innings on that arm. His changeups are still lethal as before. The main issue with him this season has been the lack of focus when he gets into jams, more of mental issue than mechanic as he just look really uncomfortable out there on the mounds when he gives up a couple of hits or walks.

Also, another reason why I don't think he's done is because prior to tonight's game he has a 2.21 ERA which was second best in the league and a pretty decent May. His walks numbers are down compared to April. I just think that he's been so good for so long now that we're seeing something different and it has been at least 2-3 years now and we know he's on the decline. The reality is he IS on the decline, but at the same time he's re-inventing himself into a more finesse type of pitcher with still a deadly changeup.

He had a bad game.. so what? I'm not too concerned about it. I don't think he's close to being done... we're seeing an evolution to become a different type of pitcher from Felix. He's still going to be pitching and be good at 35-36 years old down the road.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think you are kidding yourself if you don't think something is wrong.

ERA doesn't tell the whole story here. Remember his own error caused a bunch of runs not to be counted in Oakland. It's deeper then that.

His strikeouts are down and the walks are up. His FIP is also now over 4 which isn't good. Only Miley's is worse among our starters but he has been improving.

I really don't care about the velocity part because the happens over time.

I'm not saying he is done because I still see electric stuff out there. The command part is my issue. I think he is capable of bouncing back but we will have to see.

 

[Anointed One]

He was wildly inaccurate during the month of May... Last night was a great example... He wasn't hitting his locations... He was leaving pitches inside when Iannetta was set up on the outside, vice-versa... He was leaving curve balls hanging over the plate, etc... Velocity isn't a concern for me at this point because he has enough pitches to overcome that... He needs to paint the plate and hit his spots is the issue imo...

 

[cezero]

I didn't realize there was a whole other thread about this, so I'll just say what I said in the other one.

It's impossible to look at the control and pitch selection that Felix has had for most of the year and not see something is amiss.

If it's not an injury or an issue of him trying to avoid blowing out his elbow and getting Tommy John (which would probably result in him playing the last year of his contract for the M's for $1 million), then great. I have faith that he can adjust with his current repertoire of pitches and make it work. That's probably what we're seeing right now. I hope. Really hope.

 

[unlvmariners]

I think you are kidding yourself if you don't think something is wrong.

ERA doesn't tell the whole story here. Remember his own error caused a bunch of runs not to be counted in Oakland. It's deeper then that.

His strikeouts are down and the walks are up. His FIP is also now over 4 which isn't good. Only Miley's is worse among our starters but he has been improving.

I really don't care about the velocity part because the happens over time.

I'm not saying he is done because I still see electric stuff out there. The command part is my issue. I think he is capable of bouncing back but we will have to see.

Nailed it. Very well put.

 

[Voltaire26]

Seriously ... 30 years old ... ERA under 3 ... hasn't pitched under 200 innings since 2007. I would dump him on the Tigers for Mike Pelfry and Seattle pays half his salary.

King Felix looks pretty good now. I wouldn't worry.

 

[NWinAZ]

Seriously ... 30 years old ... ERA under 3 ... hasn't pitched under 200 innings since 2007. I would dump him on the Tigers for Mike Pelfry and Seattle pays half his salary.

King Felix looks pretty good now. I wouldn't worry.

He is our version of your Verlander. Not done by any means, but not the guy that will dominate just by stepping out on the mound every 5 days either. Time does that to us all.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Seriously ... 30 years old ... ERA under 3 ... hasn't pitched under 200 innings since 2007. I would dump him on the Tigers for Mike Pelfry and Seattle pays half his salary.

King Felix looks pretty good now. I wouldn't worry.

He's also an "old 30" because he's pitching since age 19.

 

[Anointed One]

He is our version of your Verlander. Not done by any means, but not the guy that will dominate just by stepping out on the mound every 5 days either. Time does that to us all.

Not sure how Felix would respond in a big game... He really hasn't had too many of those during his career... But if memory serves me right, the few big games he's pitched in, he wasn't anything to write home about... I could be wrong... Felix is like a box of chocolates these days - you don't know what you're going to get... At least the month of May proved that to be the case... Felix is a solid ace, but he's no longer in the top 10 in the league imo... However, I still think we'd have a staff from top to bottom that would help us be competitive if we did make the postseason... I think Iwakuma would be a solid pitcher in the postseason and I think Walker will only continue to improve and get stronger as the season unfolds... Our 1-3 will keep us competitive but the difference imo would be how Felix pitches against the opposing team's ace...

I'm a huge Felix fan but his decline is going to come sometime... The reason fans are a bit concerned is due to the month of May he had with us being a postseason contender, 1st place this late in the season and Felix still didn't pitch very well... Those are the moments an ace should solidify himself as the ace and take charge, but he didn't... He hasn't done anything imo to prove himself to be a big game pitcher for us yet when we need him the most... Last night was a classic example... You have a 12-34 team coming to your home field with the Rangers 1.5 games behind you and he throws an absolutely stinker of a game...

 

[NWinAZ]

Again, I don't think anyone on here believes he is done as a MLB pitcher. That would be foolish to think. But not many on here believe he is the Cy Young Ace of years gone by either. That would be foolish to think.

He is on the Verlander path, but maybe a year or two ahead of where he currently is at.

 

[NWinAZ]

Not sure how Felix would respond in a big game... He really hasn't had too many of those during his career... But if memory serves me right, the few big games he's pitched in, he wasn't anything to write home about... I could be wrong... Felix is like a box of chocolates these days - you don't know what you're going to get... At least the month of May proved that to be the case... Felix is a solid ace, but he's no longer in the top 10 in the league imo... However, I still think we'd have a staff from top to bottom that would help us be competitive if we did make the postseason... I think Iwakuma would be a solid pitcher in the postseason and I think Walker will only continue to improve and get stronger as the season unfolds... Our 1-3 will keep us competitive but the difference imo would be how Felix pitches against the opposing team's ace...

I'm a huge Felix fan but his decline is going to come sometime... The reason fans are a bit concerned is due to the month of May he had with us being a postseason contender, 1st place this late in the season and Felix still didn't pitch very well... Those are the moments an ace should solidify himself as the ace and take charge, but he didn't... He hasn't done anything imo to prove himself to a big game pitcher for us yet...

Pretty much what I said right after your post...just in a shorter version...LOL!

 

[Anointed One]

Again, I don't think anyone on here believes he is done as a MLB pitcher. That would be foolish to think. But not many on here believe he is the Cy Young Ace of years gone by either. That would be foolish to think.

He is on the Verlander path, but maybe a year or two ahead of where he currently is at.

Yep... We all know this time would eventually come... We've all been saddened with the fact that we felt his talent had been wasted her for so many years, which is why we have come to appreciate him so much more... We have been losers for the most part, yet he stayed here when he could've gotten paid a lot more had he left to another team... His loyalty is why he's such a fan favorite, which is awesome...

 

[dude82]

Not sure how Felix would respond in a big game... He really hasn't had too many of those during his career... But if memory serves me right, the few big games he's pitched in, he wasn't anything to write home about... I could be wrong... Felix is like a box of chocolates these days - you don't know what you're going to get... At least the month of May proved that to be the case... Felix is a solid ace, but he's no longer in the top 10 in the league imo... However, I still think we'd have a staff from top to bottom that would help us be competitive if we did make the postseason... I think Iwakuma would be a solid pitcher in the postseason and I think Walker will only continue to improve and get stronger as the season unfolds... Our 1-3 will keep us competitive but the difference imo would be how Felix pitches against the opposing team's ace...

I'm a huge Felix fan but his decline is going to come sometime... The reason fans are a bit concerned is due to the month of May he had with us being a postseason contender, 1st place this late in the season and Felix still didn't pitch very well... Those are the moments an ace should solidify himself as the ace and take charge, but he didn't... He hasn't done anything imo to prove himself to be a big game pitcher for us yet when we need him the most... Last night was a classic example... You have a 12-34 team coming to your home field with the Rangers 1.5 games behind you and he throws an absolutely stinker of a game...

He hasn't pitched in many "high stakes" games, but I would argue that he's had to pitch in so many close games where one mistake or one inning that gets away from him would result in a loss that he'd be able to handle the pressure of pitching in the playoffs pretty well. Obviously playoff pressure is an entirely different animal, but the guy has pitched with the pressure of not being allowed to screw up or it's over so often that I think facing the same type of pressure in the playoffs wouldn't faze him quite as much as it would faze someone else who is used to getting comfortable early leads to pitch with or who knows that when he goes out there, there's a good chance that his offense is going to cover for any mistakes he might make so he doesn't have to be perfect with every pitch.

Something definitely seemed off with him in his last start, but I'm still not prepared to say that his time as a "must-see" ace is over yet. As far as his fielding goes... he's never been particularly good at it and every time he goes after a ball hit near him, I cringe a little bit. He's come away from too many fielding attempts limping to various degrees for me not to cringe when he races off the mound to try to make a play. That honestly scares me more than his potential to make an error.

 

[DunceKaep]

Without reHashing all the positive or negative props/failures on the KING.\\///

I suggest this.

Felix has suffered in how to adjust.......Felix, the KING will figure it out.

Sure, too much nitpicking, too many walks. Too many wasted pitches.

Felix will pitch.........At an ALL-Star Level. in 2016.
As soon as he discovers he is Maddux and not Ryan.

 

[NWinAZ]

Without reHashing all the positive or negative props/failures on the KING.\\///

I suggest this.

Felix has suffered in how to adjust.......Felix, the KING will figure it out.

Sure, too much nitpicking, too many walks. Too many wasted pitches.

Felix will pitch.........At an ALL-Star Level. in 2016.
As soon as he discovers he is Maddux and not Ryan.

I can agree with that.

 

[NWinAZ]

Baseball Prospectus | Players Prefer Presentation: The Hoping is the Hardest Part

An article on Felix.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yes

 

[PolarVortex]

He isn't done but we all need to accept what he is at this point in his career.
Paxton is better than Felix.
Miranda is better than Felix.
Andrew Moore is better than Felix.
Gaviglio is as good as Felix.

Felix is either our #4 or our #5. We should have the same expectations of him that we would have of Bergman or Gaviglio. That's the brutal truth.

Oh, and on a side note: Andrew Moore should never throw another pitch in the minor leagues. His apprenticeship needs to be over. He's got a Maddux-like baseball IQ. He pitches smart.