Ray Lewis Vs Patrick Willis

[Dodub]

In their prime? Ray Lewis and it isn't even close. Ray is the greatest LB to ever play the game and Willis isn't even close in leadership qualities. This one isn't closr. A better question is Willis vs. Urlacher.

 

[NinerSickness]

Ray is the greatest LB to ever play the game---

2nd greatest. You're forgetting LT. Greatest MLB / ILB maybe. It's between him, Butkus and maybe Willis eventually.

and Willis isn't even close in leadership qualities.

Isn't even close? I don't know about that. I'd say they're pretty close in every aspect. Don't mistake Charisma for leadership (not that Ray lacks either).

A better question is Willis vs. Urlacher.

I don't know. Urlacher & Ray were pretty close in their primes too. Urlacher didn't have the DL Ray did with the exception of Ted Washington for a while (Willis hasn't ever had a great DL in front of him). But at this point I'd say Willis is better than Urlacher because Willis is better in coverage than Urlacher. Not that Urlacher was bad, but Willis can chase down WRs. There isn't a single aspect of Willis' game that isn't great. That's why he's the best LB in the game.

 

[Dodub]

Ray's leadership goes far beyond just the rah rah stuff, everyone who has been in that locker room says that it belong to Ray, he keeps the players in line and helps them get into position on the field. This isn't coming from me but former teammates of his that ive seen on tv. While im not saying that Willis isnt a great leader, I just havent heard the same things. In fact I read that it was Whitner getting Bowman into position and giving jim advice earlier in training camp.

 

[NinerSickness]

What you're saying is what breaks the tie IMO. But give Willis a great DL like Ray had and a playoff caliber team and Willis will have the chance to build upon his own lore. He's a 5th year player on a mediocre team.

 

[mem49er]

One thing I just remembered was Ray taking in Ed Reed. Reed basically credits Lewis with his success. Taught him to be a pro, be a student of the game, etc. They would (and probably still do) spend hours together watching film.

 

[clyde_carbon]

ok Clyde, there's no way to find proof Willis isn't a great leader. at the same time, you don't have proof he is? so you want to argue we don't have proof, but whats your basis?

if the question was "who are the leaders on the 49er team right now"? would you have named Willis first without a doubt? or would he have flowed out of your mouth second or third? cause IMO and yes its an opinion........if Willis was a GREAT leader - not just a leader - his name would would come first without hesitation.

going back to this thread - consisting of 49ers fans mind you - if Willis was a GREAT leader, there would be more than 0 votes for Willis.

But I'm not trying to prove that he is a great, and I'm just trying to disprove the notion that he isn't. Everything we've read/heard about Willis indicates that he's well respected in the locker room and on the field, and there's no question that he makes the players around him better.

If you're asking me who our defensive leader is my response would immediately be Willis - and I woudn't think twice about it.

 

[NinerSickness]

I don't think Willis had to take on as much of the leadership responsibility when Spikes was playing next to him. This year will be different obviously.

 

[mem49er]

If you're asking me who our defensive leader is my response would immediately be Willis - and I woudn't think twice about it.

How about Justin Smith?

 

[clyde_carbon]

How about Justin Smith?

He's a leader as well - just like how Terrell Suggs has been one aside Ray Lewis in Baltimore.

 

[Dodub]

Ray is the greatest LB to ever play the game---

2nd greatest. You're forgetting LT. Greatest MLB / ILB maybe. It's between him, Butkus and maybe Willis eventually.


I personally have LT ranked #2 behind Ray Ray. LT was a better pass rusher but Ray was better in coverage, better against the run, had better instinct and was a much better leader. Also LT used alot of tricks to give himself an advantage such as sending prostitutes and drugs to the hotel rooms of the opposing QB's and RB's the night before the game.

and Willis isn't even close in leadership qualities.

Isn't even close? I don't know about that. I'd say they're pretty close in every aspect. Don't mistake Charisma for leadership (not that Ray lacks either).

I'm not mistaking charisma for leadership. Charisma is what he shows to the fans and after he makes a big play, leadership is more of what he does behind the scenes and before the play starts. He is by far and away the leader of that team and has been for years.

A better question is Willis vs. Urlacher.

I don't know. Urlacher & Ray were pretty close in their primes too. Urlacher didn't have the DL Ray did with the exception of Ted Washington for a while (Willis hasn't ever had a great DL in front of him). But at this point I'd say Willis is better than Urlacher because Willis is better in coverage than Urlacher. Not that Urlacher was bad, but Willis can chase down WRs. There isn't a single aspect of Willis' game that isn't great. That's why he's the best LB in the game.

Not taking anything away for Urlacher but I don't think he's on Ray's level honestly. He is an all time great yes but I don't see him as a top 5 all time guy.

I don't agree that Willis is better in coverage than Urlacher, I actually couldn't disagree more with that statement. One of Willis' biggest weaknesses is in coverage while that is one of Urlacher's strengths, of course his experience at DB had alot to do with that. Urlacher can chase down WR's too, but chasing down WR"s doesn't make you good in coverage that means you are good in pursuit.

 

[drekeeper]

Ray Lewis has intangibles from a physical, mental, passion and way of leading that sets him apart from anyone else. Taking him all day over anyone, even LT. Ray could lead the Spartans if the movie was 300 and he doesn't just lead with brawn

 

[numone9er]

But I'm not trying to prove that he is a great, and I'm just trying to disprove the notion that he isn't. Everything we've read/heard about Willis indicates that he's well respected in the locker room and on the field, and there's no question that he makes the players around him better.

If you're asking me who our defensive leader is my response would immediately be Willis - and I woudn't think twice about it.

Well, deep kind of took the words out of my mouth. I understand your point of saying Willis is a leader and you don't think there is any evidence to show otherwise, but either way i don't hear about Willis as a captain and leader.

I'm not giving this as a reason, but maybe a contributing factor in my assessment is when they tried the mic in Willis's helmet and his production dropped dramatically because it was too much of a responsibility for him to handle both playing well and getting the Defense organized. It seems like he struggles to manage both of them. We all know he is a great player, nobody is arguing that, but when it comes down to it there is no proof of him being a "great" leader.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

I remember 2 years ago when we went into Seattle and the playoffs were pretty much on the line. We win that game and we had a great shot at making it. Willis was taking over that game. He was making ever tackle. Like the team was gonna win if he had to do it by himself. Alas... like the team of the past decade...we came up short. We couldn't capitalize in the redzone and kept them in it. I think it was Brown who got burned for a big 3rd and long late, that led to their win.

In Willis career that is about the only thing he's had near a playoff type scenario. Ray Lewis has had the benefit of a great DL.... great LB's, and incredibly good secondary. And lets not forget when their line wasn't as dominant (after Seragusa and some others left) before they got Ngata he wasn't making the plays as often and there was talks of Ray Lewis declining.

So I think Willis has a great opportunity to eclipse Lewis.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

....but either way i don't hear about Willis as a captain and leader.

I'm pretty sure that the C on his uniform means he is a captain. Voted on by the players on the team.

 

[zman1527]

Hmmm, Patrick is really nice player but to my mind he lacks in making big plays, game changing plays. Not enough sacks, ints, forced fumbles. He gets his tackles but not enough of the big plays.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Hmmm, Patrick is really nice player but to my mind he lacks in making big plays, game changing plays. Not enough sacks, ints, forced fumbles. He gets his tackles but not enough of the big plays.

He made more "big plays" his first four years in that league than Ray Lewis did his first four.

 

[threelittleturds]

I'm pretty sure that the C on his uniform means he is a captain. Voted on by the players on the team.

Except when that douchebag Singletary handed out Captain assignments. Although I have no doubt the players would have still voted for Willis last year.

 

[PWilly52]

At this point it is really tough to say. Ray has accomplished so much and has been very consistent for a while. Willis is my favorite player but I think Lewis has a slight edge. Now if your talking about right now I think Willis is probably better but if your talking about career then its obviously Lewis at this point.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I agree with those saying its too hard to say - hard to project Willis out that far to match the incredible achievements Lewis has already made. Lewis is an 100%-of-the-vote Hall of Famer if he retires today, Willis would hardly get any votes if he retired. What he does over the next few seasons determines it.......so while I wouldn't say its "not even close", its hard to give it to Willis in any way here.

Regarding the thing about leadership, you have to consider that in the NFL "leadership" tends to be more loud and energetic, that's what the players seem to respond to better. Leading by example, or being a quiet leader, is all good.......but the players always want to see someone step up and act like larger-than-life figure. Lewis's style is simply more effective in that environment, IMO.