Ranking the young QBs

[Dude]

Concerning Dalton, at times I think people only focus on the prime-time deal, and while it's fair, in the same vein it's not fair, if you follow.

I mean, the guy came in, and took this team to the playoffs 4 straight years starting his rookie year, and did it in a pretty tough division where you have Pitt and Baltimore at times where they were both Super Bowl contenders. The offense was being over-hauled with him at QB, AJ at WR, etc...It's not like he walked into a veteran offense ready to roll. The offense has been built around him as the years have gone on.

You also have to remember that no one expected them to win that very 1st playoff game with a rookie QB and a rookie WR, and honestly (if I'm remembering correctly) AJ had the big drop in that game that could have won it for them. The last playoff game against IND the offense was starting it's 5th string WR and a converted RB at WR, lost 2 OL, and Bernard was hurt all year (though Hill was on fire). They had no chance in that playoff game to score points. None.

It's easy to focus on the few times that he's been bad, but when you look at the larger picture, Dalton has been pretty good, all things considered.

Agree, you also have to consider the team that surrounds the QB, in a motivational sense. If the team is hungry and motivated (from coach down to the bench), they can do wonders and launch a QB's career into the stratosphere. I will probably get hammered by my fellow fans, but Tom Brady is a case in point. He had a lot to do with the winner mentality and is a great leader, but the rest of team was highly motivated as well.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Agree, you also have to consider the team that surrounds the QB, in a motivational sense. If the team is hungry and motivated (from coach down to the bench), they can do wonders and launch a QB's career into the stratosphere. I will probably get hammered by my fellow fans, but Tom Brady is a case in point. He had a lot to do with the winner mentality and is a great leader, but the rest of team was highly motivated as well.

Agreed.

I mean, for 3+ years it was this team/defense carries Andy. I mean, the guy was never a Luck or a Newton or a guy that was drafted an expected to be a top 5 kind of passer. And that's ok. But on the flip side of that, it means there were going to be stretches and maybe more growing pains than other QB's because he does lack that higher end ceiling. Making the playoffs sooner than expected heightened the expectations of the team (fair or not) and after 2 or 3 years of not winning, I think the standard, or perception, was set for him. Even though you could argue that he exceeded any of those original expectations when he was drafted.

When he was drafted he was known to be a guy that got the ball out quickly, was smart, and could lead an offense, but even at TCU it took time. I think last year could have been a bigger year, but you saw Jones never played, Eifert played 1 quarter, AJ got hurt and struggled most of the year with turf toe, Bernard was starting RB and was banged up from the get go, and Hill never got a real chance at getting a shot until week 9 or 10. They ended up losing OL, and they didn't really have a viable backup. Winston is a nice veteran, but he was signed right off the street and wasn't ready. Newhouse was a complete bust as a backup and was benched finally. The entire offense just kind of fell a part last year, and more to your point I think it caused a lot of angst and lost some motivation when you feel like everything is moving against year.

Flip to this year, everyone is healthy, the depth is great, and there's no angst or lost motivation, instead you see it breeding confidence game by game. No more hung heads after INT's, or down 17pts, no more pointing fingers. These guys are picking things up and keep trusting that things are going to go there way, and Andy has been a big part of that. I think having a full and healthy offense has finally allowed him to shine a bit and play to his strengths, which is getting the ball out, making adjustments as he sees them, and using his smarts. It took time, but other than 2014, in his first 3 seasons every statistical category was pointing up and he finished 7th in passing in 2013 before 2014 was derailed by a lot of things offensively.

Time will tell, though. And fair or not, the tests for him are always going to be Prime Time games and playoffs until he can win a few consistently, or at least play well enough on his end to win those games.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Gosh, that was long...my bad.

Turning into @cdumler7 with that post...

 

[BUD]

Luck #1

 

[SonnyCID]

Luck #1

...in turnovers since 2012.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I once mistakenly said Scamperknick would be the best of himself, Griffin and the Wee One

Have to give the Wee One his due here, he is miles better than those 2 losers.

 

[Dude]

Gosh, that was long...my bad.

Turning into @cdumler7 with that post...

That's ok, most people won't read it anyway

 

[molsaniceman]

Agree, you also have to consider the team that surrounds the QB, in a motivational sense. If the team is hungry and motivated (from coach down to the bench), they can do wonders and launch a QB's career into the stratosphere. I will probably get hammered by my fellow fans, but Tom Brady is a case in point. He had a lot to do with the winner mentality and is a great leader, but the rest of team was highly motivated as well.

not sure many pats fans will disagree

top 5
Wilson
dalton
Luck
Cam
Carr

 

[CCF151]

I feel it's too early to rate either Mariota or Winston. You have to wait at least until after their first full season of starting to really gauge a qb IMO. That said I'd go:

1 Wilson
2 Luck
3 Cam
4 Dalton
5 Carr

 

[chf]

Kaepernick??? Are you on drugs young man?

That was in response to Rock's post (which I should then have quoted)

Kaep has playoff experience.

 

[flyerhawk]

yates is the only one with playoff experience if i am correct.

Yates is the only one of what that has playoff experience? People that have two letters for a first name??

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Because Luck plays for a team in the absolute worst division, pretty much since he has been in the league, I am skeptical of his success. If the Colts played in any other division, they would have been around a .500 team the past few years.

Their only wins this year are division wins.
6 of their 11 wins last year are division wins.
6 of their 11 wins in 2013 are divisional wins.

If they split divisional wins like most teams in competitive divisions, they are an 8-8 team.

I am not saying he is a horrible QB at all. At this point, I would say he is an average QB, but so are most of the QB's on that list. My top five in order would be.

Wilson
Dalton
Carr
Newton
Luck

 

[cdumler7]

Because Luck plays for a team in the absolute worst division, pretty much since he has been in the league, I am skeptical of his success. If the Colts played in any other division, they would have been around a .500 team the past few years.

Their only wins this year are division wins.
6 of their 11 wins last year are division wins.
6 of their 11 wins in 2013 are divisional wins.

If they split divisional wins like most teams in competitive divisions, they are an 8-8 team.

I am not saying he is a horrible QB at all. At this point, I would say he is an average QB, but so are most of the QB's on that list. My top five in order would be.

Wilson
Dalton
Carr
Newton
Luck

I think I saw some stat that since Luck came into the league he is 17-2 against teams within his own division. He is something like 17-17 or 17-18 against teams outside the division. So yeah I agree he has been very fortunate to be in such a tough division. I will say though he has shown up big in some of the tougher games. He beat both San Francisco and Seattle in 2013 when they were the NFC teams in the Championship. He has beaten the Broncos. So it seems like he shows up sometimes in the craziest games. He just is not consistent though week in and week out.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I think I saw some stat that since Luck came into the league he is 17-2 against teams within his own division. He is something like 17-17 or 17-18 against teams outside the division. So yeah I agree he has been very fortunate to be in such a tough division. I will say though he has shown up big in some of the tougher games. He beat both San Francisco and Seattle in 2013 when they were the NFC teams in the Championship. He has beaten the Broncos. So it seems like he shows up sometimes in the craziest games. He just is not consistent though week in and week out.

He has pulled some good wins, but the division he is playing in is the reason he has been in the playoffs.

 

[JMR]

If I look at this from the prisoner-of-the-moment viewpoint, Dalton and Newton will be way higher than they should, and Luck & Wilson probably a bit lower.

Taking it all in, strip away the QB from all 32 teams, put all these young QBs in the hopper, let the NFL teams pick, and Luck will go 1 and RW 2. Leaving either of these guys out of your top 5 is the same as making a public announcement that no one should take you seriously.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

If I look at this from the prisoner-of-the-moment viewpoint, Dalton and Newton will be way higher than they should, and Luck & Wilson probably a bit lower.

Taking it all in, strip away the QB from all 32 teams, put all these young QBs in the hopper, let the NFL teams pick, and Luck will go 1 and RW 2. Leaving either of these guys out of your top 5 is the same as making a public announcement that no one should take you seriously.

I have a hard time buying Dalton but this year he seems like a winner, so far.

And Luck? Something's not quite right.

Newton seems to have come of age but like with Dalton, it's early.

 

[cdumler7]

I have a hard time buying Dalton but this year he seems like a winner, so far.

And Luck? Something's not quite right.

Newton seems to have come of age but like with Dalton, it's early.

Dalton for many won't get himself into that last of among the best from these draft classes until he proves it in the playoffs. Really most of these guys it is that way. It is why for me Wilson, Luck, and Cam are probably the top-3 as they have shown ability in both the season and helping their team win but also in the playoffs.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Dalton for many won't get himself into that last of among the best from these draft classes until he proves it in the playoffs. Really most of these guys it is that way. It is why for me Wilson, Luck, and Cam are probably the top-3 as they have shown ability in both the season and helping their team win but also in the playoffs.

Agreed.

 

[Clayton]

Dalton for many won't get himself into that last of among the best from these draft classes until he proves it in the playoffs. Really most of these guys it is that way. It is why for me Wilson, Luck, and Cam are probably the top-3 as they have shown ability in both the season and helping their team win but also in the playoffs.

Eh...playoffs are like 75% defense. Its why Peyton has a ring and Mark Sanchez has playoff wins.

In Dalton's defense, one of his playoff games everyone was injured and the other he might have won if he connected on a deep pass that AJ Green could have caught.

 

[Tech_God]

I get putting Dalton lower in a 'regressing to the mean' way, but as of right now, today, Dalton has to be #1.

Dalton is putting up some sick numbers this season.