Series Thread: Rangers Travel to Minnesota for 4 Games August 24-27

[WastinSomeTime]

And yesterday he used Leclerc and Stratton going to Smith to hold the 8th (failed) with the intent of using Chapman to close out the 9th. With the way the entire bullpen has fluctuated up and down with their effectiveness I don’t think he and Maddux know who to trust anymore

Bochy and Maddux both should know that putting Smith in was a mistake. Of course Sborz didn't help either.

 

[DT LUNA]

Bochy and Maddux both should know that putting Smith in was a mistake. Of course Sborz didn't help either.

Old habits die hard.

 

[scotsman1948]

Yes, even if we kept our 4 or 5 best relievers, we would still need to acquire two guys for that top level to push everyone else down.

Yes exactly but are you including Chapman and Stratton in your group of 4 or 5?

 

[scotsman1948]

Bochy and Maddux both should know that putting Smith in was a mistake. Of course Sborz didn't help either.

Who should they have put in instead of Smith? And how would that have affected what we did in the bottom of the 9th and maybe in the extra innings if it had gotten that far?

 

[saddles]

Normally, I am against having young starters go to the pen before it has been determined they cannot be big league starters. However, at this point in the season I have nothing against it. There isn't a whole lot of time left in the season for them to start in the minor leagues any way.

Guys like Kent, Bradford, White and Otto should be considered to help out in the pen for the rest of the year.

I also think Kyle Cody should be given some consideration.

 

[saddles]

Yes exactly but are you including Chapman and Stratton in your group of 4 or 5?

Yes, just to use as an example, I was. I am not saying they necessarily have to be there next year though.

I know you already have certain guys picked out. I have certain quality levels picked out. I am a little more flexible about who can fill those categories.

 

[Kelleyman]

I think the problem is you need 5 or 6 guys you have trust in to pitch the 7th-9th. We come up very short.

Ideally, next year I would like to go into the season with the following makeup in the bullpen:

2 guys you can trust to close

2 guys you can count on to do consistently well in the 7th or 8th

2 guys who are maybe too inexperienced or a little too inconsistent to trust in late innings, but who have good enough stuff to keep the game close

2 guys who can give you 2 or 3 innings if need be, but who you wouldn't be afraid of, if they needed to go into the 7th or 8th on occasion.

In that first category, I want two guys I can trust more than Chapman. He would be in the second category for me.

I agree and this is why we needed to temper expectations for this year and dare I say fo last offseason. Too much needed
bUt yeah Heaney pick up could have been used for pen but still would not have been enough. Unfortunately we will have to slug our way out of the slump while playing a catcher who needs to be on IL

 

[scotsman1948]

Yes, just to use as an example, I was. I am not saying they necessarily have to be there next year though.

I know you already have certain guys picked out. I have certain quality levels picked out. I am a little more flexible about who can fill those categories.

I pick certain relievers that I felt fill our needs but if there are other options that are equally or better options I’m flexible to accept those

 

[scotsman1948]

It is probably time for Sborz to go to Round Rock and try someone else. Maybe Anderson too.

I am still wanting to see what Heaney can do coming out of the bullpen. He might be able to have a lot of success pitching an inning three to five times a week.

You may be correct about Sborz and Anderson but who do we bring up to replace them? JHern and Speas are pitching well in the minors but both were given opportunities up here and their performances were less than stellar

 

[jaar01]

OR....We recognize that it's not all about this season and just bring up and try almost anyone from the minors and see what you've got.

Our bullpen is terrible. That's plain to see for anyone. Yes, even our players know it sucks.

What have you got to lose at this point? There is not a single coach or player in the Rangers organization that thinks the current bullpen could help win a playoff series.

 

[saddles]

I agree and this is why we needed to temper expectations for this year and dare I say fo last offseason. Too much needed
bUt yeah Heaney pick up could have been used for pen but still would not have been enough. Unfortunately we will have to slug our way out of the slump while playing a catcher who needs to be on IL

We have to temper expectations for this year because we failed to do that last offseason .

We overspent last offseason on starting pitching and underspent on relievers.

Now, are we going to make that same kind of mistake again? Are we going to spend on other areas instead of relief pitching again?

We had young starters we should have tried going into this season and didn't, at least, not initially. We have young hitters and young starting pitchers we should trust going into next season. Will we trust them and spend big money on the pen like we need to? I doubt it. I won't believe it until I see it.

 

[Kelleyman]

Q
M

We have to temper expectations for this year because we failed to do that last offseason .

We overspent last offseason on starting pitching and underspent on relievers.

Now, are we going to make that same kind of mistake again? Are we going to spend on other areas instead of relief pitching again?

We had young starters we should have tried going into this season and didn't, at least, not initially. We have young hitters and young starting pitchers we should trust going into next season. Will we trust them and spend big money on the pen like we need to? I doubt it. I won't believe it until I see it.

Pretty harsh assessment

 

[saddles]

You may be correct about Sborz and Anderson but who do we bring up to replace them? JHern and Speas are pitching well in the minors but both were given opportunities up here and their performances were less than stellar

Some guys will improve after being sent down. We are so desperate right now that something has to be tried. Whether it works or not, remains to be seen

 

[saddles]

Pretty harsh assessment

Hey, I call it like I see it. And, that is the way I called it last offseason as well. I am not using hindsight. I am, however, using the past to predict the future. Hopefully, I am wrong about that part.

 

[saddles]

 

[Kelleyman]

Doubt any thought we would be at this point come September

 

[True Rangers Fan]

Doubt any thought we would be at this point come September

if you mean fighting for a postseason spot, then... kinda?

going into the season, most people assumed that for the Rangers to be in line for a postseason spot, everything would have to go right.

looks like they are now going to be fighting for a postseason spot, but because a lot of things have started to go wrong.

Baseball is tricky

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Who should they have put in instead of Smith? And how would that have affected what we did in the bottom of the 9th and maybe in the extra innings if it had gotten that far?

Burke

 

[saddles]

Doubt any thought we would be at this point come September

That is true in one way if you go back to a year ago. (Pleasantly surprised)

It is true in the opposite way if you go back to that game I attended in early June against the Cardinals that brought our winning percentage to .667. (Unpleasantly surprised)

Neither of those should affect how we view the construction of our bullpen last offseason though. We wanted to be a contender and contenders need a really good bullpen.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Who does he put in in their place? You say don’t use the best relievers in what you call non- important innings so who does he use?

I’ve explained this many times before. It’s not rocket science here.

In games you’re winning by a run or two, you’re tied, or you’re losing by only 1, you use the following pitchers: Chapman, Stratton, Burke, and maybe LeClerc. That’s IT. Will Smith used to fall into this category as well, but he has taken an absolute nosedive over the last month and can no longer be trusted.

In games where you are comfortably ahead or behind by multiple runs and there is room to allow 2-3 runs, you use the following pitchers: Anderson, Sborz, Smith, Speas (if recalled), Perez

It’s simple. It won’t be a perfect system because even the “best” guys give up runs or blow leads sometimes. And sometimes the best guys are all tired and so you have to use a bum in a tight spot. But if you manage CORRECTLY, that will only happen very rarely.

Do you know just how many times this year Bochy has put really bad or inexperienced pitchers into situations where the game was truly on the line? WAY too many. He threw Alex Speas into the fire in one of his first Major League games against the Dodgers with the game on the line. He was clearly not ready for the moment and it was unfair to him. Of course he blew it badly. That was a game given away. I remember him putting King into an 8th inning situation in June I believe it was where the Rangers held a 1-run lead. Everyone on this board exploded with “NOT KING!” the moment Bochy did it. Of course King blew it. Everyone knew it was coming. Those losses add up. And they’re ENTIRELY avoidable.

It’s happened at least 8-10 times, if not way more than that, this season where Bochy has either elected to pitch a terrible pitcher in a game-defining moment or he had no choice but to pitch a terrible guy there because he had already burned out his good guys in other non-critical moments. And even if you want to say that some of those were not his fault and unavoidable, then take only 3 of those losses and convert them to wins. Suddenly we’re 4 games up on the Astros and Mariners instead of 1. Major difference, all because terrible guys were used when they had no business being in the game.