RAK

[j_y19]

OK , i will bite , who do we get that is better for less then the franchise tag ?

and way better ? rak is a 2x pro bowler who has set a team record for sacks . are you telling me that a guy who will push 90 career sacks isnt worth 9 mil ? in this day and age i think the franchise tag value is pretty darn close

Dad, you don't pay someone for what they have done, but what they are going to do. The question is why isn't he producing more and can he over come it to be a top OLB?

 

[skinsdad62]

Dad, you don't pay someone for what they have done, but what they are going to do. The question is why isn't he producing more and can he over come it to be a top OLB?

j-y19 , i put his resume out there to show what he has already done and the 90 plus career sacks as to what he will do hence his pay

now the poster above is telling me that we can get better for cheaper and i say "OK" show me

so far i feel RAK should be franchised and kept . he is a high character guy , he is a good player , and he is just reaching his prime .

 

[skinsdad62]

» Over the Cap- 2014 NFL Free Agent 34 Outside Linebackers

here is a list of free agent OLBS in the 3-4 defense scheme

make your argument for a better cheaper guy then RAK

 

[Sportster 72]

I'd take Rob Jackson based on last year for less than $9 million. Rob played the run and pass better than Orakpo.

Orakpo is 16th among LBs in sacks and 258th in tackles. Would I keep him? Yes for $4.5 million I would re-sign him. For $8 or $9 million the team would be overpaying. The feeling here in Washington is this was his year to show he was worth the money and he is not doing that. That's not from a bunch of bloggers, that is from ex-Redskin players.

The poster formerly above and now below would be fine with Jackson playing that spot if the option was to overpay Orakpo. I'd hold that money for Kerrigan.

 

[duke1861]

» Over the Cap- 2014 NFL Free Agent 34 Outside Linebackers

here is a list of free agent OLBS in the 3-4 defense scheme

make your argument for a better cheaper guy then RAK

I would let Jenkins and Jackson fight it out. We can use the cap room to address more pressing needs (Secondary and OLine). We can always use the 2nd rounder on a 3-4 OLB. Rak is going to want too much money.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'd take Rob Jackson based on last year for less than $9 million. Rob played the run and pass better than Orakpo.

Orakpo is 16th among LBs in sacks and 258th in tackles. Would I keep him? Yes for $4.5 million I would re-sign him. For $8 or $9 million the team would be overpaying. The feeling here in Washington is this was his year to show he was worth the money and he is not doing that. That's not from a bunch of bloggers, that is from ex-Redskin players.

The poster formerly above and now below would be fine with Jackson playing that spot if the option was to overpay Orakpo. I'd hold that money for Kerrigan.

ALL-22: Brian Orakpo's Impact VS The Dallas Cowboys

this is a typical Rak game and a game where he had no tackles . he certainly played the run very well in those clips and he did we vs the pass.

in the "rob jackson breakout year " the team had 32 sacks in 16 games . so far this year we have 20 in 7 games . the big difference ? rak is on the field

now the coaching staff disagrees with anyone saying Rob jackson is better then Rak as the depth chart indicates

now my question wasnt "who you would rather have " but who is available better and cheaper then Rak at the franchise tag of 8-9 mil which would be the market rate for a starting OLB with 2 pro bowls under his belt and a team record for sacks in 3 seasons

i would franchise him and let him prove he is worth more . but as i have shown he impacts the game a heck of a lot more then a rob jackson and the other FA's i listed

letting Rak go would cause our defense to take a step backward and would add yet another hole to a team that has quite a few

and you also discount that RAK is a great character guy as well and his work ethic is above reproach jackson , i believe , is also a step or maybe 2 away from a year suspension for drug use

 

[SkinsDalltheWay]

im on board with a franchise tag and trade. I have little love for RAK. :/

 

[gkekoa]

I'd be hesitant to offer 8 million a year and I like RAK. His injury history is what scares me.

I'm also interested in Brandon Jenkins.

That being said, I'd try to resign RAK at closer to 6 mil and settle around 7.

 

[Sportster 72]

2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Linebacker

 

[j_y19]

2013 NFL Top Base Salaries - Linebacker

Based on this info, he probably falls more in the 6-7M/yr total compensation range. What are the rules of franchise tag? Doesn't a tagged player get guaranteed a certain amount based on the average of their position?

 

[Sportster 72]

This is better info than that last post.

» Over the Cap- Top NFL Contracts: 34 Outside Linebacker

Von Miller tops ATL's outside linebacker rankings - NFL.com

My point was never to not sign Orakpo it is to not overpay him. Cooley, Doc Walker and Brian Mitchell all feel this is Orakpo's show me year and he has not lived up to that. He has 9 more games to do so. IMO Kerrigan is the better player. If you can keep Rak at a reasonable salary I am all for it but $9 million is too much and would be irresponsible spending.

 

[j_y19]

I'm right there with ya, sportster. He is a good player. He is not a great player. It all comes down to value. Would we really see a huge drop off if we went with a Jackson at half the contract value of Rak? Honestly, I don't know. Jackson played pretty well last year. He clearly is a better cover OLB and does have pass rushing skills. We also have Jenkins who is probably more of a pass rushing specialist. Could we make a team of those two and replace Rak's production at a fraction of the cost? Quite possibly.

 

[Kevin12773]

I'm right there with ya, sportster. He is a good player. He is not a great player. It all comes down to value. Would we really see a huge drop off if we went with a Jackson at half the contract value of Rak? Honestly, I don't know. Jackson played pretty well last year. He clearly is a better cover OLB and does have pass rushing skills. We also have Jenkins who is probably more of a pass rushing specialist. Could we make a team of those two and replace Rak's production at a fraction of the cost? Quite possibly.

^^^^this^^^^

 

[skinsdad62]

ok , so the top salaries for an olb are well over 10 mil for an OLB and again i ask who do you get that is cheaper AND better ? a question we have avoided for going on 2 days

mathews NA , Ware NA and 32 , hali NA, spencer really ? suggs NA woodley not better and NA , mathis too old , kruger NA brooks NA barwin NA freeney to old

so tell me where is this underpriced OLB that we should just leap on ?

and please dont tell me rob jackson makes this defense better

 

[j_y19]

I offered a potential solution that needs to be looked at. It is a team of Jackson and Jenkins. And the question isn't does Jackson make the D better, it is does the money we save by no signing Orakpo to an over valued contract allow us to land a PB ILB or S that will make the defense better? Again, its not that Rak is a bad player, its is he worth the money that many of us think he is going to demand? If we can sign him for 6-7M/year, I say sign him and move on, he is worth that. But if we wants elite money (9-11M/year), we need to look at alternatives.

 

[skinsdad62]

I offered a potential solution that needs to be looked at. It is a team of Jackson and Jenkins. And the question isn't does Jackson make the D better, it is does the money we save by no signing Orakpo to an over valued contract allow us to land a PB ILB or S that will make the defense better? Again, its not that Rak is a bad player, its is he worth the money that many of us think he is going to demand? If we can sign him for 6-7M/year, I say sign him and move on, he is worth that. But if we wants elite money (9-11M/year), we need to look at alternatives.

i dont see that at all . you can add those pieces and keep RAK at the franchise tag amount if needs be . a 2x pro bowl player, who makes the impact as i have shown, on our defense certainly is worth a franchise tag tender

jackson is one strike away from a year long suspension and jenkins cant get on the active roster and you say we should tie our OLB fate to that ?

we have plenty of money and draft picks to keep a core redskins player and get other needs fixed at the franchise tag value if needs be

the guy is entering his prime

 

[j_y19]

i dont see that at all . you can add those pieces and keep RAK at the franchise tag amount if needs be . a 2x pro bowl player, who makes the impact as i have shown, on our defense certainly is worth a franchise tag tender

jackson is one strike away from a year long suspension and jenkins cant get on the active roster and you say we should tie our OLB fate to that ?

we have plenty of money and draft picks to keep a core redskins player and get other needs fixed at the franchise tag value if needs be

the guy is entering his prime

I didn't say that, dad. i said the team of Jackson/Jenkins needs to be considered in terms of the overall value vs production. We also need to consider all viable FAs as well as potential talent in the draft.

You also keep on pointing out him being a 2XPB player. That was a few years back. DHall has been a multiple PB player, should we franchise tag him? LF has been a multiple PB player? Franchise tag candidate? Again, you don't sign a player to a huge contract based on what he has done or what awards he has won in the past. You sign him based on what you think he can do for you during the life of the contract. And the best predictor of that is recent history. Since he has been injured most of the last 2 years, this year is the best predictor. He is on pace for 6-9 sacks this year. His tackles totals will be the lowest he has ever had for a full season if he continues on the same pace. In reality, he is not improving, he is regressing in terms of production measured for an OLB in a 3-4 (for what ever reason, injury, scheme, etc). Do I think this year is an indicator of the best he can do going forward? No. I think he has the ability to potentially still produce at a higher level. But I sure wouldn't sign him to an elite level contact based on potential after he has been in the league for 5 years.

The franchise tag value for OLBs in 2013 was approximately $9.6M. That will go up in 2014. Lets just say it goes to $10M. That's a lot of money for a 8/9 sack and maybe 50 total tackles a year guy. Hell, that's a lot of money for a 12 sack a year guy. So if we are going to do that, what is going to change in Rak's game after 5 years to get him to a 16-18 sacks/year? Cause at that money level, thats what we need from him. So my point, again, is one of value. We have established contractual discipline since the Allen has taken over. We need to maintain that discipline. Although we have money to spend, we still need to spend it wisely. The last thing we want is to find ourselves in a situation where we sign our players to big time contracts and they don't deliver on the value. They become untradeable due to the contract and we can't cut them unless we want to be back in cap hell..........Let dallas do that type of player management.

 

[Sportster 72]

I didn't say that, dad. i said the team of Jackson/Jenkins needs to be considered in terms of the overall value vs production. We also need to consider all viable FAs as well as potential talent in the draft.

You also keep on pointing out him being a 2XPB player. That was a few years back. DHall has been a multiple PB player, should we franchise tag him? LF has been a multiple PB player? Franchise tag candidate? Again, you don't sign a player to a huge contract based on what he has done or what awards he has won in the past. You sign him based on what you think he can do for you during the life of the contract. And the best predictor of that is recent history. Since he has been injured most of the last 2 years, this year is the best predictor. He is on pace for 6-9 sacks this year. His tackles totals will be the lowest he has ever had for a full season if he continues on the same pace. In reality, he is not improving, he is regressing in terms of production measured for an OLB in a 3-4 (for what ever reason, injury, scheme, etc). Do I think this year is an indicator of the best he can do going forward? No. I think he has the ability to potentially still produce at a higher level. But I sure wouldn't sign him to an elite level contact based on potential after he has been in the league for 5 years.

The franchise tag value for OLBs in 2013 was approximately $9.6M. That will go up in 2014. Lets just say it goes to $10M. That's a lot of money for a 8/9 sack and maybe 50 total tackles a year guy. Hell, that's a lot of money for a 12 sack a year guy. So if we are going to do that, what is going to change in Rak's game after 5 years to get him to a 16-18 sacks/year? Cause at that money level, thats what we need from him. So my point, again, is one of value. We have established contractual discipline since the Allen has taken over. We need to maintain that discipline. Although we have money to spend, we still need to spend it wisely. The last thing we want is to find ourselves in a situation where we sign our players to big time contracts and they don't deliver on the value. They become untradeable due to the contract and we can't cut them unless we want to be back in cap hell..........Let dallas do that type of player management.

Yep. I don't see anyone against signing Orakpo, what I see is a bunch of people who say don't sign him to stupid money. We've been there and done that. No offense but the guy with the blog is not proof that Rak is a good player. As I mentioned all the ex-Skins are wondering where Orakpo is seeing it is his contract year.

You asked me to pick a player and I did. I picked Jackson if Orakpo was going to cost $9 million. The team won 7 games in a row last year with him at the same position. It's obviously doable.

 

[skinsdad62]

I didn't say that, dad. i said the team of Jackson/Jenkins needs to be considered in terms of the overall value vs production. We also need to consider all viable FAs as well as potential talent in the draft.

You also keep on pointing out him being a 2XPB player. That was a few years back. DHall has been a multiple PB player, should we franchise tag him? LF has been a multiple PB player? Franchise tag candidate? Again, you don't sign a player to a huge contract based on what he has done or what awards he has won in the past. You sign him based on what you think he can do for you during the life of the contract. And the best predictor of that is recent history. Since he has been injured most of the last 2 years, this year is the best predictor. He is on pace for 6-9 sacks this year. His tackles totals will be the lowest he has ever had for a full season if he continues on the same pace. In reality, he is not improving, he is regressing in terms of production measured for an OLB in a 3-4 (for what ever reason, injury, scheme, etc). Do I think this year is an indicator of the best he can do going forward? No. I think he has the ability to potentially still produce at a higher level. But I sure wouldn't sign him to an elite level contact based on potential after he has been in the league for 5 years.



The franchise tag value for OLBs in 2013 was approximately $9.6M. That will go up in 2014. Lets just say it goes to $10M. That's a lot of money for a 8/9 sack and maybe 50 total tackles a year guy. Hell, that's a lot of money for a 12 sack a year guy. So if we are going to do that, what is going to change in Rak's game after 5 years to get him to a 16-18 sacks/year? Cause at that money level, thats what we need from him. So my point, again, is one of value. We have established contractual discipline since the Allen has taken over. We need to maintain that discipline. Although we have money to spend, we still need to spend it wisely. The last thing we want is to find ourselves in a situation where we sign our players to big time contracts and they don't deliver on the value. They become untradeable due to the contract and we can't cut them unless we want to be back in cap hell..........Let dallas do that type of player management.

apples and oranges j-y19 . both hall and LBF are on the downside of thier careers Rak is entering his prime

as i have shown before Rak is more than stats he makes others around him better

the facts are "seeing " if jackson and jenkins work out is more of a gamble then simply paying Rak a 1 year franchise tag . i have seen a jackson led pass rush and it isnt as good as it is with Rak .

the facts are at this point in niether of you want to tell me who is better for cheaper , so you deflect to lesser and cheaper with more unproven players while i say we have over 30 mil and a draft to help us which would easily cover the cost of rak and then some .

i deal with Rak's contract as a virtual certainty he gets franchised because of his alleged asking price that is not written in stone but i use it as a point of discussion .

if cooley and others were researching his play instead of listening to here say perhaps their on air comments would be different

if for some reason Rak doesnt work out after the on year franchise tag that is 10 mil in the bank in 2015

Rak is a 2x pro bowl player and pro bowl alternate in 3 of the 4 healthy years he has played he is entering his prime and based on past production he could be a 4x pro bowl player and an alternate for 2 more . what more production do you need ? add to it he should push 90 career sacks and i certainly think a measly i year franchise tender is worth it

certainly when you can easily get out of it after one season

 

[skinsdad62]

Yep. I don't see anyone against signing Orakpo, what I see is a bunch of people who say don't sign him to stupid money. We've been there and done that. No offense but the guy with the blog is not proof that Rak is a good player. As I mentioned all the ex-Skins are wondering where Orakpo is seeing it is his contract year.

You asked me to pick a player and I did. I picked Jackson if Orakpo was going to cost $9 million. The team won 7 games in a row last year with him at the same position. It's obviously doable.

i asked you to pick a BETTER player that was cheaper . jackson isnt a better player

you want to dismiss a blog that has visual proof of what he did yet offer nothing but a stat or 2 . the stats i have have is a RAK playing skins defense is on pace for 42 sacks (low side ) as opposed to 32

last season we had 6 defensive TDS in 16 games this season after 7 games we have 5. we are on pace for 10 (low side)

the difference is RAK and the pressure he applies and the people he frees up to make tackles and get sacks

those are stats . and you dismiss the blog because it doesnt back up your "0 tackles " statement

how many of mannings ints were caused by pressure Rak applied or the people he occupied so that others could apply pressure ? what about the fumble recovery and the subsequent holding penalty he drew that gave the skins a short field for a score ?

sorry but he is at least worth a one year franchise tag and if it doesnt work out you have 10 mil for 2015