Question for WVU fans

[Anotherwvufan]

I probably should have changed the title of the thread to, "Question for WVU fans, do you think the Big 12 is tougher in basketball than you originally thought?", although I still believe the Big East receives too much hype.

I'm sure the Big East basketball got too much hype in bball, although in football, it was just the opposite. We were better than hyped.

Some of the sports talk shows are saying that the B12 is the best bball conference this year. That exceeded my expectations of the conference. I am very surprised that we are doing so well with the current team in this league.

 

[Slaton10]

Doubtful on that part. Seton Hall, USF, Rutgers, DePaul, St. John's and Providence are all pretty weak. This WVU team would be middle of the pack as well in the Big East. BTW, I'm glad WVU is in the Big 12; I just thought WVU would be competing for Big 12 titles in basketball immediately and help dethrone KU. With one and doners today, being young is very common now. Hell, Texas starts 3 freshmen, a soph and a junior. Last year, we started 3 fresh and 2 soph. I just think the Big East received waaaay too much hype by the media over the years. Doesn't mean it was/is a good conference, I just don't think it was as great of a conference as ESPN made it out to be.

Seton Hall Made the Final 4 in 1989... Providence..1987 Final four.. St Johns Final Four 1985 ..elite Eight..79,85,91 and 99........

 

[bbwvfan]

Lots of media hype, IMO. I mean, the Big East sent 8 teams to the tourney last year. 5 were eliminated in the 1st round. The year before, Big East sent 9 teams to the tourney; 6 were eliminated by the 2nd round. In 2011, the Big East sent 11 teams and 8 of them were eliminated by the 2nd round (to be fair though, 2 teams were eliminated by 2 Big East teams). Still, take those two away and half of the Big East teams were eliminated by the 2nd round. I guess this is why I've thought the Big East has been overhyped the past few years in basketball.

You cannot use one game scenarios in the NCAA to determine whether a conference is over-hyped. Look at the school's non-conference record... their RPI... to determine their worthiness.

In most cases, BE schools performed quite well in holiday tournaments and against other major conference schools.

We can point to the number of times BE schools dominated the Sweet 16, Elite 8 and Final 4 composition to counter any number of examples that a few teams got knocked out of the NCAA tourney in the early rounds.

 

[GoldRusher]

I was just ready to see it from day 1. In your opinion, do you think the Big 12 is tougher than you thought it would be in men's basketball?

Well, as mentioned our situation the last couple of years recruiting wise would have made us look bad in ANY conference, same goes for football. Huggs missed on some recruits and it has hurt bad and the football program ended the Orange bowl a few years ago with 61 scholarship football players out of a possible 85. For different reasons we have been operating like we were being punished by the NCAA .

As far as the conference, I think its about what I expected, always solid, certain teams rise up with some great athletes from time to time, some tough venues to play in when on the road(good/passionate fans) and the path to the CC goes through KU most times. Do I think the BE(when it was still the BE) was a tougher conference to get through? Yes.
Is that saying the Big12 is soft? Absolutely not, very solid conference in hoops imo.

 

[TexasExes98]

Seton Hall Made the Final 4 in 1989... Providence..1987 Final four.. St Johns Final Four 1985 ..elite Eight..79,85,91 and 99........

C'mon guy, those teams haven't been relevant in forever and would be battling TCU for last place.

 

[WvuDieHard]

I can assure you today--Providence, Seton Hall and St Johns would beat TCU. These teams are not as bad as you think they are. Sure they get beat on a regular basis by SYC, Pitt, UConn but they are far from being an easy win.

 

[Slaton10]

C'mon guy, those teams haven't been relevant in forever and would be battling TCU for last place.

My point being is that even the bottom feeders have had success in their programs ..and you can include Depaul in that conversation....there are teams in the Big 12 that have never had success...and those these schools are not top 25 programs at the moment...they have the ability to turn it around if they really wanted to...

 

[TexasExes98]

My point being is that even the bottom feeders have had success in their programs ..and you can include Depaul in that conversation....there are teams in the Big 12 that have never had success...and those these schools are not top 25 programs at the moment...they have the ability to turn it around if they really wanted to...

So the reason they haven't been back to the Final Four in decades is b/c they "haven't turned it on"? Gotcha.......Somebody tell George Mason they can turn it back on anytime they want b/c they made it to the Final Four once. Just messing with you, but I totally disagree with that statement. The reason those schools haven't made it back to the Final Four is b/c they're not good enough programs. Plus, it depends on the coach at the time. Pitino took Providence to the Final Four and they haven't made it back since 1987. Hell, if TCU had Rick Pitino as head coach, I'm sure he could take the Horny Toads to the Final Four. The bottom feeders in the Big East suck as bad as any bottom feeders from every major conference. Let's not overrate those programs b/c they made it to the Final Four 20 - 30 something years ago.

 

[Slaton10]

So the reason they haven't been back to the Final Four in decades is b/c they "haven't turned it on"? Gotcha.......Somebody tell George Mason they can turn it back on anytime they want b/c they made it to the Final Four once. Just messing with you, but I totally disagree with that statement. The reason those schools haven't made it back to the Final Four is b/c they're not good enough programs. Plus, it depends on the coach at the time. Pitino took Providence to the Final Four and they haven't made it back since 1987. Hell, if TCU had Rick Pitino as head coach, I'm sure he could take the Horny Toads to the Final Four. The bottom feeders in the Big East suck as bad as any bottom feeders from every major conference. Let's not overrate those programs b/c they made it to the Final Four 20 - 30 something years ago.

I think it has to do with facilities...Depaul plays in a barn 40 minutes from campus...the Dunkin Donut joint in Providence needs a major upgrade...and Seton Hall is like Georgetown...they do not have their own floor...the schools need to make an investment to revenue drivers that they have on campus..whether it is sports or educational driven...and these schools have not...George Mason plays at the Patriot Center and it is heads and shoulders better than the places these schools play in...

 

[DCWV4life]

Pitino took Providence to the Final Four and they haven't made it back since 1987.

Still one more time than 3 teams in the Big 12....same with Rutgers, Seton Hall, ND, Pitt. You asked which conf we thought was tougher, historically year in and year out the BE was a tougher conf...IMO. Big 12 was a one man show for years and until someone proves it otherwise, it may stay a one man show.

10 BE teams have multiple final four appearances compared to 5 for the Big 12.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

I don't get it TexEx. You ask our opinion, and when you get the answer you don't like you argue with us. I'm sure we all wish we could honestly say the Big XII was the better conference. It just isn't. Well, wasn't. After all, that Big East is dead.

While the BE had its share of bottom feeders, no other conference had as many heaver hitters as the old BE did. Not even the ACC could match the quality depth at the top of the BE. When you start putting your 6th best team into the elite 8, you have a lot of quality teams. Sorry you don't like the answer. I wish I could tell you otherwise.

 

[TexasExes98]

I don't get it TexEx. You ask our opinion, and when you get the answer you don't like you argue with us. I'm sure we all wish we could honestly say the Big XII was the better conference. It just isn't. Well, wasn't. After all, that Big East is dead.

While the BE had its share of bottom feeders, no other conference had as many heaver hitters as the old BE did. Not even the ACC could match the quality depth at the top of the BE. When you start putting your 6th best team into the elite 8, you have a lot of quality teams. Sorry you don't like the answer. I wish I could tell you otherwise.

I'm not arguing, you all have given good answers, just giving my opinion. For the record, I don't think the Big 12 is better than the Big East in basketball, I was just saying I think the Big East received too much hype (we're a football conference anyway). It was/is a good conference, always has been. Not sure now since 'Cuse and some of the others left.

 

[bbwvfan]

Just like there are those who have had a hard time with the success of SEC teams in football, I guess there will always be those who have a hard time with the success the BE had over its history in basketball.

When the teams from the conference enjoy such sustained success, I find it hard to understand how anyone feels it is overhyped.

Was the BE given the benefit of the doubt in terms of rankings over the years… absolutely.

But, look at the non-conference record of the BE over any time period. It was impressive.

And, that ain't no hype…

 

[bbwvfan]

Lots of media hype, IMO. I mean, the Big East sent 8 teams to the tourney last year. 5 were eliminated in the 1st round. The year before, Big East sent 9 teams to the tourney; 6 were eliminated by the 2nd round. In 2011, the Big East sent 11 teams and 8 of them were eliminated by the 2nd round (to be fair though, 2 teams were eliminated by 2 Big East teams). Still, take those two away and half of the Big East teams were eliminated by the 2nd round. I guess this is why I've thought the Big East has been overhyped the past few years in basketball.

So... do you think the Big 12 was overhyped this year? It's member schools have had similar results in post-season play as the past BE years you cited for us.

 

[bbwvfan]

Thankfully, ISU won. At least now the Big 12 won't be shut out of the Sweet 16 this year!

 

[DCWV4life]

2 out of 16 aint bad this year.....

 

[DBAR4WVU]

What was is not what is.

The BigEast is not even the 2nd or 3rd best conference today, IMO. 5th maybe? In it's heyday - I would have put it at the top with G-Town, 'Nova, uConn, 'Cuse, Pitt - then came Louisville. Even St. John's and Providence had their moments. And while WV won the title and had a few good seasons, I would put them in the middle (lower) of the pack overall at best. The ACC probably was 2nd or 3rd prior to recent acquisitions - but they clearly now are the strongest, toughest conference with adding Pitt, 'Cuse and Louisville. Again - IMO.

The battle for # 2 lies between the Big12 and Big10. You can argue for the PAC - but I think top to bottom, the B12 and 10 have them beat.

And the strongest conference doesn't always mean you will automatically have the most Sweet 16, Final 4 or even NC teams. Things happen, upsets occur. It all comes down to perception of who has the strongest, best, toughest (pick your adjective) conference and how you define that. Is it most undefeated, most teams with 20+ wins, best record against OOC? What about Strength of schedule?

Much like the (previously?) mythical college football NC - it was opinion based at best and many arguments could have and still can be made against the eventual, selected winner.

 

[bbwvfan]

2 out of 16 aint bad this year.....

Yeah, but having only 2 of 7 Big 12 teams make it past the 2nd round was no better than the years the Texas fan cited for us in this thread. He used recent NCAA performances for his argument that he thought the BE was overhyped. Right?

 

[element1286]

Lol @ the Texas fan, other than Kansas there is nothing special about the Big12. The full compliment Big East from the last 10 years was superior to the Big12, not even arguable. Especially in the depth department.

Most Final Fours By Conference Since 2000 - UCONN | Men's Basketball

Little outdated list, but from 2000 to 2011 final fours by conference.

 

[DCWV4life]

Yeah, but having only 2 of 7 Big 12 teams make it past the 2nd round was no better than the years the Texas fan cited for us in this thread. He used recent NCAA performances for his argument that he thought the BE was overhyped. Right?

LOL I was just saying 2 out of 16 aint bad...not involved in analysis...