Post here if you correctly picked the title game

[douggie]

Anyone create a new one for me to put up??

Can you make a GIF work?

 

[tnapucco]

right in the "whats up feed" you called me a dumbass for stating gonzage had in easy path

wasn't directed at you. it was at dole. sorry didn't @ him.

 

[SteelersPride]

wasn't directed at you. it was at dole. sorry didn't @ him.

darn

 

[SteelersPride]

darn

just kidding anyways

 

[tnapucco]

I'm so uninvested in the tourney it isn't funny.

Really...:crying:

 

[redseat]

BTW, I want to extend a debt of gratitude to @Shaggy for keeping the Indianapolis banner heading at the top of the CBB page. It reminds me of the time I picked Duke to win it all and there was a bunch of naysayers then as well. 2015 was a GREAT season!

Also reminds me of 2010 when I was there... How sweet that was too!

 

[CatsTopPac]

I don't really give a shit about Gonzaga tbh. I think they are really good. I think that anybody that used their lack of getting to a FF as a reason why they couldn't this year, or using the schedule as another reason is really fucking dumb. I just see that as flawed logic. Everyone was pointing out shit that had no affect on whether this particular team could get to a FF. It was all about schedule and them never getting there and always being overrated. 6 new players on this team from last year, 5 of them being in their first year with the program, with 3 of them being NBA prospects, and another a former top 60 recruit who almost averaged a double double in a P5 conference. How does not getting to a FF affect them? It doesn't. At all.

I'm not one to talk shit, I mean I've posted here all season for the last like 4 years and the biggest argument I've gotten into has been about fucking Gonzaga off all teams. People were pretty steadfast on saying they couldn't get to a FF, and gave me shit because I thought they could. Or would call Gonzaga overrated every year, when that's contrary to what has actually happened. People were talking out their ass. I don't really give a fuck if I'm right or wrong. I've been wrong about plenty of shit and will be wrong again. And when I am, I'll admit so.

Here's the thing though, the overwhelming majority of people on this board and in general think that GU is a solid program, with a great coach, a great team, and great players. And yet you make it out like everyone who didn't pick them to the FF is shitting on them. The reason why you've had so much of a discussion is because so much of it is people having to tell you over and over again that just because they don't have GU in their FF doesn't mean that they think GU is a bad team, or anything less than a great team. And you just refuse to accept it. You completely ignore it and read what you want to read: that everyone is shitting on GU and you, and you have to be the one to set everything straight. I've read where at least three people have had to remind you that they don't think GU is a bad team at all, and yet you've felt the need to propagate it when talking to them (and complain that people are shitting on GU). Someone says that they don't think that GU is a FF team and you jump all over their shit telling them that GU is great. No shit. No one you are discussing this with thinks otherwise, and yet it's something that you can't accept (whether you say you can or not). People repeat over and over that they're not saying GU is anything but a great team and you just think that people are shitting on them. That's bullshit.

Second of all, where are all the people giving you shit? You do take this personal. Someone comes on here and gives an informed opinion on a team to no one in particular and you take it personally. Their reasoning is fucking dumb and flawed logic? Who the fuck are you? Who's the one talking shit? You take this way too personal man. Coaches say after every tough conference/conference tourney game how glad they are to have played such a strong opponent (win or lose) because it helps their team develop. So the logical conclusion to that would be that playing good conference teams and tournaments helps teams learn and develop (ultimately for March). That's not flawed logic, that's aligning with what great coaches say after about every game against strong opponents. And yet you get to decide that it's fucking dumb? Fuck you. Also, how much of a stretch is it to say that having experienced players, teams, and coaches of deep tourney runs and team experience playing together is valuable? Again, coaches all the time talk about how valuable it is to have players experienced in their system, and relying on players deep in March who have been there before. And yet that also is flawed logic? Again, when people say these things as their opinion, it's at least well-informed. It's not like some random person was obviously trolling and has no idea what they're talking about. People are actually trying to have a genuine discussion about it, and you can't be bothered except to take a tone where you obviously think their position is fucking dumb. Again, fuck you if you're going to be a condescending prick about some opinions on a sports forum when people are saying shit that great coaches say every game.

Now, let me take a step back, because I can already tell that you are about to come unglued because you think that I just said that GU couldn't, or was incapable of making the FF. Most of the lack of confidence comes down to people knowing how great GU is, and the difference is that they had GU as an EE team. That's it. People saying that GU is an EE team is not shitting on them. Get that through your fucking skull. If someone says that they think a tough schedule and an experienced team are valuable, it's not saying that GU is incapable of getting to the FF despite that, it's just saying that they (like great coaches everywhere) can see the value in teams that do. That's not people lining up against GU. It's not flawed logic and fucking dumb for people to favor teams that are coming off of deep March runs with some key returners in tough conferences. That's also not people shitting on GU. They just prefer those very logical indicators of success; not as laws that have to happen for a team to make the FF, but as indicators.

People come on and explain their reservations about GU being a FF team and give their reasons in order to have a discussion. You come on and feel the need to address almost each and every opinion as if it's fucking dumb of them to have that opinion (read: an opinion different than yours). You somehow in your mind think that people are giving you shit for it, take it personally, and then relentlessly rail against them until they give up. You think people are talking out of their ass when they are giving you well-thought-out opinions with evidence that backs it up. You might not agree with them, but it's not flawed logic, it's not fucking dumb, and they're not giving you shit.

 

[ericd7633]

Here's the thing though, the overwhelming majority of people on this board and in general think that GU is a solid program, with a great coach, a great team, and great players. And yet you make it out like everyone who didn't pick them to the FF is shitting on them. The reason why you've had so much of a discussion is because so much of it is people having to tell you over and over again that just because they don't have GU in their FF doesn't mean that they think GU is a bad team, or anything less than a great team. And you just refuse to accept it. You completely ignore it and read what you want to read: that everyone is shitting on GU and you, and you have to be the one to set everything straight. I've read where at least three people have had to remind you that they don't think GU is a bad team at all, and yet you've felt the need to propagate it when talking to them (and complain that people are shitting on GU). Someone says that they don't think that GU is a FF team and you jump all over their shit telling them that GU is great. No shit. No one you are discussing this with thinks otherwise, and yet it's something that you can't accept (whether you say you can or not). People repeat over and over that they're not saying GU is anything but a great team and you just think that people are shitting on them. That's bullshit.

Second of all, where are all the people giving you shit? You do take this personal. Someone comes on here and gives an informed opinion on a team to no one in particular and you take it personally. Their reasoning is fucking dumb and flawed logic? Who the fuck are you? Who's the one talking shit? You take this way too personal man. Coaches say after every tough conference/conference tourney game how glad they are to have played such a strong opponent (win or lose) because it helps their team develop. So the logical conclusion to that would be that playing good conference teams and tournaments helps teams learn and develop (ultimately for March). That's not flawed logic, that's aligning with what great coaches say after about every game against strong opponents. And yet you get to decide that it's fucking dumb? Fuck you. Also, how much of a stretch is it to say that having experienced players, teams, and coaches of deep tourney runs and team experience playing together is valuable? Again, coaches all the time talk about how valuable it is to have players experienced in their system, and relying on players deep in March who have been there before. And yet that also is flawed logic? Again, when people say these things as their opinion, it's at least well-informed. It's not like some random person was obviously trolling and has no idea what they're talking about. People are actually trying to have a genuine discussion about it, and you can't be bothered except to take a tone where you obviously think their position is fucking dumb. Again, fuck you if you're going to be a condescending prick about some opinions on a sports forum when people are saying shit that great coaches say every game.

Now, let me take a step back, because I can already tell that you are about to come unglued because you think that I just said that GU couldn't, or was incapable of making the FF. Most of the lack of confidence comes down to people knowing how great GU is, and the difference is that they had GU as an EE team. That's it. People saying that GU is an EE team is not shitting on them. Get that through your fucking skull. If someone says that they think a tough schedule and an experienced team are valuable, it's not saying that GU is incapable of getting to the FF despite that, it's just saying that they (like great coaches everywhere) can see the value in teams that do. That's not people lining up against GU. It's not flawed logic and fucking dumb for people to favor teams that are coming off of deep March runs with some key returners in tough conferences. That's also not people shitting on GU. They just prefer those very logical indicators of success; not as laws that have to happen for a team to make the FF, but as indicators.

People come on and explain their reservations about GU being a FF team and give their reasons in order to have a discussion. You come on and feel the need to address almost each and every opinion as if it's fucking dumb of them to have that opinion (read: an opinion different than yours). You somehow in your mind think that people are giving you shit for it, take it personally, and then relentlessly rail against them until they give up. You think people are talking out of their ass when they are giving you well-thought-out opinions with evidence that backs it up. You might not agree with them, but it's not flawed logic, it's not fucking dumb, and they're not giving you shit.

Gonzaga starts a 5th year senior, a 4th year senior, two 4 year juniors and a 3rd year sophomore. They have all the experience in the world. And out of those 5 starters, four of them weren't on the team last year. What does Gonzaga having done in past tournaments have any bearing on this particular team? And, FWIW, Karnowski was a big part of their EE team from 2015. That's why I'm saying that type of thinking is flawed. You're basing something off of something that isn't quantifiable. This is a completely different team. It's the best team Few has ever had. I'm perfectly fine with somebody not thinking Gonzaga was a FF caliber team, but NOT because of tournament history(which it's been documented they've played on average to what their seed indicates) or their schedule. Should I not pick Arizona next year because their coach has never been to a FF? No, if their good enough, their good enough, he's that great of a coach, that I don't need a FF appearance to validate me picking them to make it that far. I think that's reasonable enough. If you don't think Gonzaga's good enough, you don't think their good enough, that's fine.

I think the more reasonable discussion is to talk about their roster, how good their players are, how good of a coach Few is, how good they've been from an analytical standpoint on both defense and offense, which is adjusted for schedule. How they've gone 6-0 against the top 25(entering in the tournament). I think it's dumb to bring up something from 4 years ago as to why this particular team can't make a FF. It's not like all of the sudden Few is a better coach because he has a FF appearance, sure it looks good on his resume, but he was already great as it was. I just think there's more relevant data points to use when basing an opinion like this than their past tournament history and their schedule.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Gonzaga starts a 5th year senior, a 4th year senior, two 4 year juniors and a 3rd year sophomore. They have all the experience in the world. And out of those 5 starters, four of them weren't on the team last year. What does Gonzaga having done in past tournaments have any bearing on this particular team? And, FWIW, Karnowski was a big part of their EE team from 2015. That's why I'm saying that type of thinking is flawed. You're basing something off of something that isn't quantifiable. This is a completely different team. It's the best team Few has ever had. I'm perfectly fine with somebody not thinking Gonzaga was a FF caliber team, but NOT because of tournament history(which it's been documented they've played on average to what their seed indicates) or their schedule. Should I not pick Arizona next year because their coach has never been to a FF? No, if their good enough, their good enough, he's that great of a coach, that I don't need a FF appearance to validate me picking them to make it that far. I think that's reasonable enough. If you don't think Gonzaga's good enough, you don't think their good enough, that's fine.

I think the more reasonable discussion is to talk about their roster, how good their players are, how good of a coach Few is, how good they've been from an analytical standpoint on both defense and offense, which is adjusted for schedule. How they've gone 6-0 against the top 25(entering in the tournament). I think it's dumb to bring up something from 4 years ago as to why this particular team can't make a FF. It's not like all of the sudden Few is a better coach because he has a FF appearance, sure it looks good on his resume, but he was already great as it was. I just think there's more relevant data points to use when basing an opinion like this than their past tournament history and their schedule.

You just said it yourself, they have a lot of experience individually, but 4 of their 5 starters were not even on the team last year. Does bringing that up against the consideration of teams that have key players and leaders returning mean my thinking is flawed? You have four starters with less than a year of experience playing games in Few's system together. It's not fucking dumb, or flawed logic to bring that up against other teams that have a more experienced team, together. I'm not holding 2015 (or any other year) against them. I never said or implied that because they never made a FF that they can't go. I'm just saying that I look around CBB and there are teams that I just saw last year that have multiple returners and an experienced group together that I think I can bet on.

And as far as the tourney goes, they're taking four starters that weren't on the team last year and trying to make it to the FF. NWG may be an upperclassmen, but he's never played a tourney game, and this is his first year playing games in Few's system. And he's supposed to lead 3 other new starters and a returner to the final weekend? And questioning the ability for all of that to go well is crazy? It's not saying they can't, but it's a sensible question to ask.

I look around and I see some familiar faces on teams that made deep runs just last year that have been in the coach's system, and return. I look at KU, Oregon (with Boucher), Nova, Duke, UNC, and those are the teams that I feel comfortable betting on in March. That doesn't mean that by doing so, I'm shitting on GU.

Again, for the 50th time, you think that because I didn't pick GU that I'm against them. And I'm not. I'm just not for them compared to the other teams I saw going into March. I look at how many guys from Oregon returned from a strong EE run last year and I like them. I look at Duke having some pieces from their NC run two years ago and some killer freshmen and think the same thing. I see how Mason and KU did last year in March and I liked them. Nova won it last year with some nice pieces that came back. UNC got to the title game last year I like the way Jackson and Meeks play. That's why I picked them. That's what I was looking for. It's not crazy to like those guys and those teams based on their personnel and past success together. That doesn't mean that I think GU is incapable. It just means I bet more on the returning success of guys that have experience playing deep in March together. For fuck's sake, that's all I'm saying. And that is a perfectly reasonable and logical bet to make.

Absolutely nowhere did I say that because GU has never been to a FF that they can't make it. As a fan of AZ and Sean Miller, why in the fuck would I ever think that? Just because I place value on teams that make deep runs doesn't mean that I think a team has to have been to the FF just to make it. Again, I'm spending half of my time telling you that I didn't say a bunch of shit you accuse me of. I already went over how I think AZ might or might not get to the FF next year. We've already been through this. I think that playing in a tough conference helps AZ and hurts when they don't play in a strong Pac. I'm not just picking on GU. I told you that in the years AZ didn't play in a strong Pac, it looked like they weren't ready for the FF. But even then, I wasn't going to say that they couldn't make it, just that they didn't look ready for it. It's not something going in that I'd bet on.

You get so defensive that people disagree with you that you blow what they say out of proportion so you can act like you're so fucking right all the time. You build a strawman of shit no one is really saying so that you can burn it down and claim victory. No one is shitting on you or saying that GU is anything other than a very good team. No one is saying that because Few has never been that he can never go. No one is saying that because GU plays in the WCC that they can never go. All we are saying is that those are not strong markers to go off of to bet a team will reach the FF. Seriously, stop reading right now and just understand what I just wrote. You made all that shit up and then hold it against people even though we have to tell you over and over that you are taking shit to extreme.

GU is a great program, they have a great team and a great coach. Other teams play in better conferences that everyone from coaches to analysts think helps to develop teams and players more than playing in the WCC. Other teams have returning players and groups that have made deep runs together in the last year or two that show they have the experience of playing in those situations. None of that is a knock on GU or anyone for picking GU. It's not a death sentence for GU.

I'm also not saying anything new that I haven't been saying for the last month and a half that you still ignore, just to tell me that because GU hasn't been to the FF that I don't think they can go, or that because they play in the WCC that I don't think they can go. And around and around we go. All I said is that I'll bet more on the teams that have done it before and play in a tough conference.

If you're not willing to see the difference then I honestly have no idea how else to say it. But I'm fucking tired of constantly defending myself against things I never said and don't believe, just because you take what I actually do say and bastardize it until it's unrecognizable and then shit on it and throw it back in my face. That's not how a discussion goes. You want to be right by telling everyone else how wrong we all are. But in the end, after all of this shit and wasted time, you said they would go to the FF and I said EE. One fucking game man. All of this is you trying to put as much distance between the EE and the FF as you can so that you can start a thread rubbing it in people's faces that you thought they would do one game better than I did. I don't expect you to see that. You're locked in to being so fucking defensive that all you've been doing this whole time is thinking about how to twist my words so that you are right. And I'm fucking done with it.

 

[ericd7633]

You just said it yourself, they have a lot of experience individually, but 4 of their 5 starters were not even on the team last year. Does bringing that up against the consideration of teams that have key players and leaders returning mean my thinking is flawed? You have four starters with less than a year of experience playing games in Few's system together. It's not fucking dumb, or flawed logic to bring that up against other teams that have a more experienced team, together. I'm not holding 2015 (or any other year) against them. I never said or implied that because they never made a FF that they can't go. I'm just saying that I look around CBB and there are teams that I just saw last year that have multiple returners and an experienced group together that I think I can bet on.

And as far as the tourney goes, they're taking four starters that weren't on the team last year and trying to make it to the FF. NWG may be an upperclassmen, but he's never played a tourney game, and this is his first year playing games in Few's system. And he's supposed to lead 3 other new starters and a returner to the final weekend? And questioning the ability for all of that to go well is crazy? It's not saying they can't, but it's a sensible question to ask.

I look around and I see some familiar faces on teams that made deep runs just last year that have been in the coach's system, and return. I look at KU, Oregon (with Boucher), Nova, Duke, UNC, and those are the teams that I feel comfortable betting on in March. That doesn't mean that by doing so, I'm shitting on GU.

Again, for the 50th time, you think that because I didn't pick GU that I'm against them. And I'm not. I'm just not for them compared to the other teams I saw going into March. I look at how many guys from Oregon returned from a strong EE run last year and I like them. I look at Duke having some pieces from their NC run two years ago and some killer freshmen and think the same thing. I see how Mason and KU did last year in March and I liked them. Nova won it last year with some nice pieces that came back. UNC got to the title game last year I like the way Jackson and Meeks play. That's why I picked them. That's what I was looking for. It's not crazy to like those guys and those teams based on their personnel and past success together. That doesn't mean that I think GU is incapable. It just means I bet more on the returning success of guys that have experience playing deep in March together. For fuck's sake, that's all I'm saying. And that is a perfectly reasonable and logical bet to make.

Absolutely nowhere did I say that because GU has never been to a FF that they can't make it. As a fan of AZ and Sean Miller, why in the fuck would I ever think that? Just because I place value on teams that make deep runs doesn't mean that I think a team has to have been to the FF just to make it. Again, I'm spending half of my time telling you that I didn't say a bunch of shit you accuse me of. I already went over how I think AZ might or might not get to the FF next year. We've already been through this. I think that playing in a tough conference helps AZ and hurts when they don't play in a strong Pac. I'm not just picking on GU. I told you that in the years AZ didn't play in a strong Pac, it looked like they weren't ready for the FF. But even then, I wasn't going to say that they couldn't make it, just that they didn't look ready for it. It's not something going in that I'd bet on.

You get so defensive that people disagree with you that you blow what they say out of proportion so you can act like you're so fucking right all the time. You build a strawman of shit no one is really saying so that you can burn it down and claim victory. No one is shitting on you or saying that GU is anything other than a very good team. No one is saying that because Few has never been that he can never go. No one is saying that because GU plays in the WCC that they can never go. All we are saying is that those are not strong markers to go off of to bet a team will reach the FF. Seriously, stop reading right now and just understand what I just wrote. You made all that shit up and then hold it against people even though we have to tell you over and over that you are taking shit to extreme.

GU is a great program, they have a great team and a great coach. Other teams play in better conferences that everyone from coaches to analysts think helps to develop teams and players more than playing in the WCC. Other teams have returning players and groups that have made deep runs together in the last year or two that show they have the experience of playing in those situations. None of that is a knock on GU or anyone for picking GU. It's not a death sentence for GU.

I'm also not saying anything new that I haven't been saying for the last month and a half that you still ignore, just to tell me that because GU hasn't been to the FF that I don't think they can go, or that because they play in the WCC that I don't think they can go. And around and around we go. All I said is that I'll bet more on the teams that have done it before and play in a tough conference.

If you're not willing to see the difference then I honestly have no idea how else to say it. But I'm fucking tired of constantly defending myself against things I never said and don't believe, just because you take what I actually do say and bastardize it until it's unrecognizable and then shit on it and throw it back in my face. That's not how a discussion goes. You want to be right by telling everyone else how wrong we all are. But in the end, after all of this shit and wasted time, you said they would go to the FF and I said EE. One fucking game man. All of this is you trying to put as much distance between the EE and the FF as you can so that you can start a thread rubbing it in people's faces that you thought they would do one game better than I did. I don't expect you to see that. You're locked in to being so fucking defensive that all you've been doing this whole time is thinking about how to twist my words so that you are right. And I'm fucking done with it.

Look, this whole thing stems from you thinking that their weak schedule would prohibit them from making the FF. That was your stance. You threw in the occasional, yeah they can get there, statement because any top 40 team can conceivably make it to a FF. So congrats, I guess?

You even said you think they are good only because they play a bunch of weak opponents surrounding a tough game. Which directly reflects on their schedule and not the team.

But I'm done here.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Look, this whole thing stems from you thinking that their weak schedule would prohibit them from making the FF. That was your stance. You threw in the occasional, yeah they can get there, statement because any top 40 team can conceivably make it to a FF. So congrats, I guess?

You even said you think they are good only because they play a bunch of weak opponents surrounding a tough game. Which directly reflects on their schedule and not the team.

But I'm done here.

Wow. You just completely walked into my point.

This whole thing started because in the very first post and paragraph I wrote, "I'm not saying that they can't make it to the FF or win it (especially in a win or go home setting), but I just don't think it helps them to play against WCC competition for the final two months of the season every year." In your head you took that as me saying that I think their weak schedule would prohibit them from getting to the FF.

Even though I wrote in plain English that I'm not saying they can't make it and I just don't think it helps to play weak conference competition, you built up a straw man that I think their weak schedule prohibits them from getting them to the FF. You haven't looked back since, and you can't even see that you completely fucked up my plain words and ran with it regardless of how many times over and over I've told you (as it was happening) that you are fighting an argument that I'm not making.

 

[ericd7633]

Wow. You just completely walked into my point.

This whole thing started because in the very first post and paragraph I wrote, "I'm not saying that they can't make it to the FF or win it (especially in a win or go home setting), but I just don't think it helps them to play against WCC competition for the final two months of the season every year." In your head you took that as me saying that I think their weak schedule would prohibit them from getting to the FF.

Even though I wrote in plain English that I'm not saying they can't make it and I just don't think it helps to play weak conference competition, you built up a straw man that I think their weak schedule prohibits them from getting them to the FF. You haven't looked back since, and you can't even see that you completely fucked up my plain words and ran with it regardless of how many times over and over I've told you (as it was happening) that you are fighting an argument that I'm not making.

Lol. Your main point was talking about their weak schedule and how it will hurt them. That was wrong. If you want me to give you credit for saying, "I'm not saying they can't make it" then congrats, you were correct.

This is like me saying, "I'm not saying Arizona can't make a FF, but I don't think it helps having a coach who's never been to one" That sounds incredibly stupid.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Lol. Your main point was talking about their weak schedule and how it will hurt them. That was wrong. If you want me to give you credit for saying, "I'm not saying they can't make it" then congrats, you were correct.

This is like me saying, "I'm not saying Arizona can't make a FF, but I don't think it helps having a coach who's never been to one" That sounds incredibly stupid.

It sounds incredibly stupid because you're wrong, and you're inventing some shit again to argue against. I could set my watch to this shit.

You saying what's in bold would be exactly like if I said that I don't think Few could make it because he's never been to a FF. And I never said that. So that's not like what I'm saying at all.

What I am saying though, would actually be like you saying that if AZ played in a down Pac then the weak conference schedule wouldn't help them get to the FF. That's exactly what it would be like. And I would agree with you because I have said the same thing.

Keep making shit up you think I'm saying and call it stupid.