Posey's future

[gp956]

In all seriousness, that was one my favorite baseball trades of all time. Both teams HAD to be considered winners in a big way. Next to the McGriff / Alomar deal, one of the biggest trades of the last 25 years...

that's a good call.

 

[tzill]

I know that Buster wants to stay at catcher and that he is a value to the Giants while he is there. But with the talent the Giants have in the minors (and Chez3) and with his injury last season, most people here think that it would be best if Posey not remain at catcher. The logical place for him to move seems to be 1B.

Well, I want to think outside the box here. At 1B, Posey becomes an average bat at best. He would be Mark Grace lite. 15-20 bombs 85-90 RBI and a .300 batting average. Those are solid numbers, but not power numbers. Plus, putting Posey at 1B would be condemning Brandon Belt to another organization because we all know that Belt is not the LF of the future.

So, what does the organization do with Posey? I started thinking about him and the name that keeps coming to me is Craig Biggio. Sure, Biggio was smaller than Posey, but Buster is just as good an athlete as Biggio, if not better. Buster was a SS in college and only switched to C because the team needed him there. The move to 2B could not be THAT difficult.

Why not give the kid a 2B glove and see what he can do with it on the infield? Freddie Sanchez is too Italian - ooh Fragee-lee - and is getting up in age. Burriss sucks and always will. TheRiot is a stop-gap at best. Unless the Giants move Panik from SS to 2B, they really do not have a top prospect at the 2B position. If the China Doll makes it back onto the field this season, he can play most of the games at 2B while Posey learns. In the future, Sanchez/Susac at C, Belt at 1B, Posey at 2B, Panik at SS, Panda/Chris Dominguez at 3B, Peguero, Brown and (insert player here) in the OF.

Fire at will.

I believe that is exactly the plan, bro.

 

[tzill]

I think covering 2B will be a stretch for Posey. He's not going to get any quicker as he ages, and I'd estimate his range at 2B would be really poor if he played there now.

Nope....I don't think this idea will make it.

This. His value is at catcher, much as it Susac's to say that.

 

[SFGRTB]

How about have Joseph/Posey split time at catcher/1B (obviously if ToJo every develops), keep Pablo at 3rd, swing a trade involving Belt/Susac (again assuming both develop) for some big OF/2B bat (sorry tzill for trading Susac)

 

[Stokes1931]

How about have Joseph/Posey split time at catcher/1B (obviously if ToJo every develops), keep Pablo at 3rd, swing a trade involving Belt/Susac (again assuming both develop) for some big OF/2B bat (sorry tzill for trading Susac)

I believe tzill will have all your alts for this, sir. Not that he doesn't already own all our alts anyway. Trade Susac?!? Shoot, well why not trade Wheeler, then?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Now imagine if the Giants traded away a potential HOF like Matt Williams (who subsequently got hurt and became a shadow if his former self) and got back integral pieces that made a run at a World Series title.

ORRR...

Trading our starting 3B, closer, and a MiL reliever with promise to a division rival for a legit #2 starter, LOOGY, and a journeyman 3B with weight issues, only to see the closer we shipped win the CY the next year and the starter we received as the centerpiece to suffer career-ending cancer in his throwing arm about a year after the trade.

Now THAT would be a horrible trade as well.

Right?

I'm really not sure how any of the above has to do with "there's a glut at a position and we have to trade a player because of it". Oh, wait, it doesn't - not at all.

Are we going to switch to conversation as to how red cars are batter than blue cars now?

 

[gp956]

I'm really not sure how any of the above has to do with "there's a glut at a position and we have to trade a player because of it". Oh, wait, it doesn't - not at all.

Are we going to switch to conversation as to how red cars are batter than blue cars now?

Actually, you said this:

Sure, having to decide which guy to play where because of a glut is much, much better than having no local-grown talent. But, beware of what you wish for ...Flashes of McCovey/Cepeda.....I do remember my dad and older brothers crying about having to trade him away. My point was a glut *at the major league level* is a very painful thing as well, especially when the guys in question are all talented

and I said this:

Bottom line, it's not the leaving, per se, that hurts, it's the getting back "nothing" in return.

Obviously the comments you quote address the assertion of "it's not the glut that hurts, or getting rid of a great player, it's making a bad trade". They seem relevant to the discussion to me.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'm really not sure how any of the above has to do with "there's a glut at a position and we have to trade a player because of it". Oh, wait, it doesn't - not at all.

Are we going to switch to conversation as to how red cars are batter than blue cars now?

When you sit at the bar talking to the dude next to you, do you get pissed if the subject of the convo drifts a bit this way or that?

 

[mistgl]

It seems he was not an ideal SS, range wise. That's from reading "between the lines" from comments quoted from his FSU coaches. They're quoted as saying they projected him into a corner infield spot as he matured. It was the assistant manager who proposed moving him to catcher instead.

The key word there is proposed. It was Busters choice as to where he went on the field. You can find a couple interviews where he pretty much says that he went with catcher because he thought it was the surest guarantee one could have of getting to the Bigs.

Thats the answer for the camera. I'm sure he's well aware of the $$$$$ difference between elite C and average 1B.

 

[msgkings322]

When you sit at the bar talking to the dude next to you, do you get pissed if the subject of the convo drifts a bit this way or that?

+100

Marco, relax! Have a beer, we're all just bullshitting about stuff. This ain't law school.

 

[filosofy29]

When you sit at the bar talking to the dude next to you, do you get pissed if the subject of the convo drifts a bit this way or that?

+100

Marco, relax! Have a beer, we're all just bullshitting about stuff. This ain't law school.

In fairness gents, he may have felt like they (cal and gp) were poking fun at him. It takes awhile to understand the nuances of humor when new with an individual or a group. A lot of us have known each other for years.

That said, yes Marco, they are right, relax brotha and grab a beer.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Actually, you said this {...} and I said this {...}
Obviously the comments you quote address the assertion of "it's not the glut that hurts, or getting rid of a great player, it's making a bad trade". They seem relevant to the discussion to me.

The glut AND HAVING TO GET RID OF A PLAYER is of course the pain I was trying to express. A "glut" where the team can keep all of the talented players isn't much of a problem, so I'm a little confused as to your point.

And the point I was trying to make (that I thought was pretty obvious) was that trading away a franchise player because of a glut really hurts.

All of the comments having to do with trades *that weren't due to a glut* don't have anything to do with my point, IMHO.

 

[gp956]

The key word there is proposed. It was Busters choice as to where he went on the field. You can find a couple interviews where he pretty much says that he went with catcher because he thought it was the surest guarantee one could have of getting to the Bigs.

Thats the answer for the camera. I'm sure he's well aware of the $$$$$ difference between elite C and average 1B.

Yes, the coach discussed this as well. The salient point though, is that they did not see him as a ML middle infielder.

 

[gp956]

The glut AND HAVING TO GET RID OF A PLAYER is of course the pain I was trying to express. A "glut" where the team can keep all of the talented players isn't much of a problem, so I'm a little confused as to your point.

And the point I was trying to make (that I thought was pretty obvious) was that trading away a franchise player because of a glut really hurts.

All of the comments having to do with trades *that weren't due to a glut* don't have anything to do with my point, IMHO.

Obviously it would not hurt if you kept the player. It's also obvious that it would not hurt if you traded the player and got fair value back. Consequently, the only conclusion one can reach is that the real pain is from not getting fair value back. Anyway, that's the lesson I'd take from the Cepeda trade.

And, If you really think about the Matt Williams trade, that trade was precipitated by a "glut" of high priced and about to get more expensive talent, such that the Giants felt they could not afford to keep them all. So there's that too.

 

[Stokes1931]

In fairness gents, he may have felt like they (cal and gp) were poking fun at him. It takes awhile to understand the nuances of humor when new with an individual or a group. A lot of us have known each other for years.

That said, yes Marco, they are right, relax brotha and grab a beer.

There's humor on this board? Wait....what?

Even having this debate indicates how far the Giants have come in the last five years in developing talent. Instead of trading pitching talent for over-priced and over-aged vets, we now have to figure out who can stay and who needs to be voted off the island? Awesomeness.

 

[calsnowskier]

Obviously it would not hurt if you kept the player. It's also obvious that it would not hurt if you traded the player and got fair value back. Consequently, the only conclusion one can reach is that the real pain is from not getting fair value back. Anyway, that's the lesson I'd take from the Cepeda trade.

And, If you really think about the Matt Williams trade, that trade was precipitated by a "glut" of high priced and about to get more expensive talent, such that the Giants felt they could not afford to keep them all. So there's that too.

I am not saying this did not play a roll as well, but I seem to remember that Matty requested a trade because of his divorce. I know he ultimately left Cleveland and went to Arizona primarily to be closer to his kids...

 

[MacJ88]

Speaking of Matty's kids. Did anyone else see the Diamondbacks spring training game a week ago vs the Brewers? Matt's son Jake ripped a double, the proud father couldn't help but crack a smile. Wish I could find a video for it, I was watching the game on MLB Network. Here's a picture of Jake, looks just like pops. Milwaukee Brewers vs. Arizona Diamondbacks - Photos - April 04, 2012 - ESPN

 

[gp956]

I am not saying this did not play a roll as well, but I seem to remember that Matty requested a trade because of his divorce. I know he ultimately left Cleveland and went to Arizona primarily to be closer to his kids...

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious there. But, while I knew Matty requested a trade to the DBacks when he was in Cleveland, that he might have also requested a trade away from the Giants would be news to me. I really doubt that.

 

[tzill]

I believe tzill will have all your alts for this, sir. Not that he doesn't already own all our alts anyway. Trade Susac?!? Shoot, well why not trade Wheeler, then?

Throw in Timmy, Cain, Bum, Posey and Panda while you're at it.

 

[tzill]

Now imagine if the Giants traded away a potential HOF like Matt Williams (who subsequently got hurt and became a shadow if his former self) and got back integral pieces that made a run at a World Series title.

pssssh...like that could ever happen. Ai yay yay! Seban sucks!!!

JA!