Posey's future

[MarcoPolo]

Biggio was quick, something Posey is not. He's either a catcher, a 1st baseman, or a 3rd baseman.

I picture him being like Kent, but with less range.

So is the feeling that Buster was never quick (being a SS in college sort of denies that)? Or that because of all the weight he's put on to be a catcher (especially lower body mass) that he is a lot slower than he used to be?

The Giants have a history of bad fielding, ball mashing 2B : Kent, followed by Durham. IIRC, Kent, then Durham were the 2B with either the most or 2nd most errors in the NL while they played with the Giants.

 

[calsnowskier]

Flashes of McCovey/Cepeda. I don't remember seeing Cepeda play in a Giants' uni, but I do remember my dad and older brothers crying about having to trade him away. I heard the teeth gnashing and wailing every time he came back to play with a visiting team.

Sure, having to decide which guy to play where because of a glut is much, much better than having no local-grown talent. But, beware of what you wish for ...

Going through an almost 20-year drought between Mueller and Panda, and then having a steady stream after Panda is certainly enough to make any Giants fan do more than just a mild double-take.

I do, however, enjoy the situation about having to fret about which highly-touted guy to go with better than the situation about having to fret about which over-priced scrub we have to pin our hopes on. Certainly a better position.

 

[gp956]

So is the feeling that Buster was never quick (being a SS in college sort of denies that)? Or that because of all the weight he's put on to be a catcher (especially lower body mass) that he is a lot slower than he used to be?

The Giants have a history of bad fielding, ball mashing 2B : Kent, followed by Durham. IIRC, Kent, then Durham were the 2B with either the most or 2nd most errors in the NL while they played with the Giants.

It seems he was not an ideal SS, range wise. That's from reading "between the lines" from comments quoted from his FSU coaches. They're quoted as saying they projected him into a corner infield spot as he matured. It was the assistant manager who proposed moving him to catcher instead.

 

[MarcoPolo]

To me the glut is more a benefit because they won't all work out realistically so you have backup plans. Belt may or may not work out, so then there's Posey or Panda or Pill for 1B. Maybe ToJo or Susac or Sanchez are busts...etc.

My point was a glut *at the major league level* is a very painful thing as well, especially when the guys in question are all talented. I lived through the pain (reflected through my elder siblings and dad) of having to suffer through watching "our guy" play in another uni. Hell, the "he was MVP the year after they traded him" was one of the sayings that came up every time he visited.

Yes, having a glut is much better than having a black hole. Having a glut (and having to trade away a future hall-of-famer) is very painful as well. Believe me.

 

[gp956]

My point was a glut *at the major league level* is a very painful thing as well, especially when the guys in question are all talented. I lived through the pain (reflected through my elder siblings and dad) of having to suffer through watching "our guy" play in another uni. Hell, the "he was MVP the year after they traded him" was one of the sayings that came up every time he visited.

Yes, having a glut is much better than having a black hole. Having a glut (and having to trade away a future hall-of-famer) is very painful as well. Believe me.

Different era. With free agency it's routine to see guys leave.

I remember asking my dad why the Giants traded Cepeda, and he cited the glut at first base, the weakness of the Giants' middle infield, and the thought that Cepeda was a "stat producer" and not a "run producer". Very old school thinking - but reflected a common belief at the time.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Different era. With free agency it's routine to see guys leave.

I remember asking my dad why the Giants traded Cepeda, and he cited the glut at first base, the weakness of the Giants' middle infield, and the thought that Cepeda was a "stat producer" and not a "run producer". Very old school thinking - but reflected a common belief at the time.

There was also the knee injury the year before (at least that came up at my house as "yeah, so he was injured the year before, so what?"). It was the glut - because the Giants had McCovey AND Cepeda, both who were true 1B (really didn't play well anywhere else) and both great players. Even so, trading away a heavy hitter like Cepeda (power hitter at fucking Candlestick, before the fences were moved in!) because you can't play him is agony. Players leave via FA - trading them away is a different matter (meaning the first can be sad, the latter can really weigh on the soul).

 

[gp956]

There was also the knee injury the year before (at least that came up at my house as "yeah, so he was injured the year before, so what?"). It was the glut - because the Giants had McCovey AND Cepeda, both who were true 1B (really didn't play well anywhere else) and both great players. Even so, trading away a heavy hitter like Cepeda (power hitter at fucking Candlestick, before the fences were moved in!) because you can't play him is agony. Players leave via FA - trading them away is a different matter (meaning the first can be sad, the latter can really weigh on the soul).

Today many trades occur because of pending free agency, i.e. trades and free agency are related. Nevertheless, in the days of the reserve clause, at least when you made a trade you were theoretically getting something back of equal value - no such return value exists when you let a FA walk without compensation. So you would think reserve clause trades would be less painful. If they were not, it was because of the expectation that players stayed with their organization for life (or close to it). So again - different era, or, in Cepeda's case, it was simply a very poor trade. Very much like the Pierzynski trade for Giants fans in this era. Bottom line, it's not the leaving, per se, that hurts, it's the getting back "nothing" in return.

 

[MarcoPolo]

So you would think reserve clause trades would be less painful. If they were not, it was because of the expectation that players stayed with their organization for life (or close to it).

Yup. Hated the idea of Cepeda playing for some other team, same with Bobby Bonds. At least I rarely had to watch Bobby play for somebody else, as he played mostly in the AL (and there weren't 20 sports channels via satellite in the 70's - not many out of town games were televised).

But, imagine if Sanchez signs a 5-year contract with KC and wins 2 Cy Youngs, and Melky plays like Fred Lewis and is released in Aug ... Well, no, that still wouldn't be the same. Different era. They each only had one year left before FA.

Still, imagine if TJ makes the team in Sep and kills as backup catcher in the first half of 2013 AND Pablo is rockin' AND Belt is hitting like Matt Williams ... and they trade Posey in July with 3 years left before FA. And Posey wins MVP for the next 3 years straight. I agree that as problems go, it's a "pleasant" one (having too many great players) - but it will still be acutely painful. (Well, unless they get Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg back in the trade ).

 

[gp956]

Yup. Hated the idea of Cepeda playing for some other team, same with Bobby Bonds. At least I rarely had to watch Bobby play for somebody else, as he played mostly in the AL (and there weren't 20 sports channels via satellite in the 70's - not many out of town games were televised).

But, imagine if Sanchez signs a 5-year contract with KC and wins 2 Cy Youngs, and Melky plays like Fred Lewis and is released in Aug ... Well, no, that still wouldn't be the same. Different era. They each only had one year left before FA.

Still, imagine if TJ makes the team in Sep and kills as backup catcher in the first half of 2013 AND Pablo is rockin' AND Belt is hitting like Matt Williams ... and they trade Posey in July with 3 years left before FA. And Posey wins MVP for the next 3 years straight. I agree that as problems go, it's a "pleasant" one (having too many great players) - but it will still be acutely painful. (Well, unless they get Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg back in the trade ).

Now imagine if the Giants traded away a potential HOF like Matt Williams (who subsequently got hurt and became a shadow if his former self) and got back integral pieces that made a run at a World Series title.

 

[calsnowskier]

Now imagine if the Giants traded away a potential HOF like Matt Williams and got back integral pieces that made a run at a World Series title.

And one of those integral parts became a full-fledged, legit HOF himself.

If only...

 

[gp956]

And one of those integral parts became a full-fledged, legit HOF himself.

If only...

....and there's that too!

 

[calsnowskier]

Now imagine if the Giants traded away a potential HOF like Matt Williams (who subsequently got hurt and became a shadow if his former self) and got back integral pieces that made a run at a World Series title.

ORRR...

Trading our starting 3B, closer, and a MiL reliever with promise to a division rival for a legit #2 starter, LOOGY, and a journeyman 3B with weight issues, only to see the closer we shipped win the CY the next year and the starter we received as the centerpiece to suffer career-ending cancer in his throwing arm about a year after the trade.

Now THAT would be a horrible trade as well.

Right?

 

[gp956]

ORRR...

Trading our starting 3B, closer, and a MiL reliever with promise to a division rival for a legit #2 starter, LOOGY, and a journeyman 3B with weight issues, only to see the closer we shipped win the CY the next year and the starter we received as the centerpiece to suffer career-ending cancer in his throwing arm about a year after the trade.

Now THAT would be a horrible trade as well.

Right?

Worse, actually, because we traded a young top prospect starting pitcher in that package as well.

 

[msgkings322]

ORRR...

Trading our starting 3B, closer, and a MiL reliever with promise to a division rival for a legit #2 starter, LOOGY, and a journeyman 3B with weight issues, only to see the closer we shipped win the CY the next year and the starter we received as the centerpiece to suffer career-ending cancer in his throwing arm about a year after the trade.

Now THAT would be a horrible trade as well.

Right?

Whoa dude, that's a really specific and detailed hypothetical!

 

[calsnowskier]

Worse, actually, because we traded a young top prospect starting pitcher in that package as well.

Was Mud part of that trade as well? I forgot about that.

 

[gp956]

Was Mud part of that trade as well? I forgot about that.

Yes. And I thought he was a future all-star. And, of course, Christal was an all-star.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yes. And I thought he was a future all-star. And, of course, Christal was an all-star.

Until he slept on his eye wrong.

Still the GREATEST game-day scratch of all time.

RIP, btw...

 

[calsnowskier]

Yes. And I thought he was a future all-star. And, of course, Christal was an all-star.

In all seriousness, that was one my favorite baseball trades of all time. Both teams HAD to be considered winners in a big way. Next to the McGriff / Alomar deal, one of the biggest trades of the last 25 years...

 

[gp956]

Until he slept on his eye wrong.

Still the GREATEST game-day scratch of all time.

RIP, btw...

Yep.

Had high hopes for him. Imagine how good his high school team was... they had Chris, Strawberry, and Eric Davis in the lineup.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yep.

Had high hopes for him. Imagine how good his high school team was... they had Chris, Strawberry, and Eric Davis in the lineup.

Hmmmm

Three futurel Giants. I like it.