Playing by the Rules

[Wazmankg]

I don't ground my club but in league play, you have to consider the source. Opponents at the level of not knowing it's a penalty in the first place probaby ain't gonna take the hole from me anyway!

Playing swiftly is just playing ready golf. There's this one team we have where both guys are ridic when it comes to this. One dude will literally be sitting on the bench until his partner hits.

Yeah I don't say anything unless we're playing against each other. I played with a guy last year who was taking practice swings out of a trap knocking sand all over the place. I drew the line there and spoke up.

 

[TobyTyler]

Yeah, I've heard that about him from multiple sources. He'd "address" the ball with a wood in the rough, creating a better lie, then "decide" he didn't want to use the wood after all. Very sketchy if true.

Tom Watson was one of the guys who was very vocal about Player's conduct. I remember once in a British Open that Player won back in the early seventies his caddy was accused of dropping a ball for him that appeared lost which he "found" with just a few seconds left on the 5 minute time limit.

Apparently this kind of stuff goes on a lot on the Tours.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Yeah, I've heard that about him from multiple sources. He'd "address" the ball with a wood in the rough, creating a better lie, then "decide" he didn't want to use the wood after all. Very sketchy if true.

Did he "ground" the wood behind the ball 1st before changing to an iron? If so, that would not be kosher and a penalty.

 

[TobyTyler]

Did he "ground" the wood behind the ball 1st before changing to an iron? If so, that would not be kosher and a penalty.

According to Tom Watson he did:

"""Eventually, the details came out… apparently one of Player's favorite tricks when he missed a fairway was to pull out a fairway wood and take a stance behind the ball - tamping the grass down - and then "changing his mind" and deciding to hit an iron. Obviously, this'll prevent the twisting irons are subject to when you're hitting down on a ball in the rough - and if you tamp it down enough, you might even be able to give yourself a clean lie that you could pick. That shot just became twenty times easier.

Again, the evidence was sketchy, until one of the posters weighed in - one who spent a lot of years covering the tour in the media. Gary's got the reputation, alright, he said; more than one long time pro talked about it from time to time. Tom Watson called him on it at one of the early Skins games, with a very Watson-esque "Gary, we're gettin' sick of this shit."""""

 

[mrwallace2ku]

I like the one where Tiger "picked up a loose pebble obstruction" in front of his ball with both arms and moved it before his play. More like a "boulder" than a pebble.

ALL perfectly legal of course.

 

[TobyTyler]

I like the one where Tiger "picked up a loose pebble obstruction" in front of his ball with both arms and moved it before his play. More like a "boulder" than a pebble.

ALL perfectly legal of course.

As I recall, it was a group of fans who had to lift that "loose pebble" for Woods. I remember Ken Venturi being incredulous when it happened, flat out calling Woods a cheater.

 

[NEhomer]

It did qualify as a "loose impediment" but it also screamed for a clause requiring a player to remove it under his own power. Otherwise, what's next, a bulldozer?

 

[NEhomer]

We've been talking about cheaters, how about a dude I'll always respect?

I'm playing Randy on the second hole in a league many years ago. He hit his ball to the right of the green but the shot was blind and we didn't see it come to rest. As we began to search, I asked what ball are we looking for? He said a Nike ball and the number. Shortly, I found his ball and called him over. He took a look at it and said, nope, that's not mine. Mine had a mark under the number or some such thing...don't remember but I knew that I never had to worry about Randy cheating. Kudos for that. Any chump would have claimed it and I'd have been none the wiser.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Tom Watson was one of the guys who was very vocal about Player's conduct. I remember once in a British Open that Player won back in the early seventies his caddy was accused of dropping a ball for him that appeared lost which he "found" with just a few seconds left on the 5 minute time limit.

Apparently this kind of stuff goes on a lot on the Tours.

Wow...I had not heard that about GP. We had to boot a player from our tourney...was called on dropping a ball and claimed he found it...our tourney rules required your ball to have a unique marking on it and your pocket (provisional in case you needed it) ball was supposed to have the same marking but with a "p" added.

The guy finished out the hole and called out his score and his cart partner ask...you found your original ball? Yes...you mind if I see it? The guy wasn't expecting that, face got really red, he was pissed that he asked which raised some concern...the ball had the "p" on it and the ball in his pocket was not even his brand...busted.

He tried to explain he put the provisional in play on a prior hole, blah, blah, blah...We corrected his score and let him play out the rest of the rounds in that tourney, but he was never invited back. We were just playing for a trophy.

 

[TobyTyler]

Wow...I had not heard that about GP. We had to boot a player from our tourney...was called on dropping a ball and claimed he found it...our tourney rules required your ball to have a unique marking on it and your pocket (provisional in case you needed it) ball was supposed to have the same marking but with a "p" added.

The guy finished out the hole and called out his score and his cart partner ask...you found your original ball? Yes...you mind if I see it? The guy wasn't expecting that, face got really red, he was pissed that he asked which raised some concern...the ball had the "p" on it and the ball in his pocket was not even his brand...busted.

He tried to explain he put the provisional in play on a prior hole, blah, blah, blah...We corrected his score and let him play out the rest of the rounds in that tourney, but he was never invited back. We were just playing for a trophy.

Wow! How embarrassing. Must have been pretty uncomfortable in the group finishing up the round. Its interesting that you guys had the ball in your pockets marked as such. Must have been some previous talk of guys cheating in that manner? What was the correction that you gave to his score? Not sure how you would penalize that properly.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Wow! How embarrassing. Must have been pretty uncomfortable in the group finishing up the round. Its interesting that you guys had the ball in your pockets marked as such. Must have been some previous talk of guys cheating in that manner? What was the correction that you gave to his score? Not sure how you would penalize that properly.

It was embarrassing, not only for him, but for me as well because I invited him to join the group.

Tourney policy...we were essentially a traveling golf club...once a year we'd travel to a site and played a 54 hole stroke play tourney...scratch. Everyone had similar golf games...pretty much mid to hi 80s.

We were pretty organized, written set of rules that we had developed over time kind of trial and error...on the balls...at the beginning of the tourney each player was to announce what type of ball they would be playing...PV1, B330S, etc. so to ensure that all balls could be identified even if a player in your group was playing the same brand, we had players mark their balls.

Pocket balls...we came up with that just as a pace of play thing...you blow one out into the trees or whatever, instead of going back to the cart, you have one at the ready in your pocket. So...we had to be able to distinguish the provisional from the original ball somehow, thus the "p" was added.

We weren't that strict...it rarely happened, but if you were having a tough round and ran out of your announced "tourney ball" you just tell your playing partner you're putting X ball in play.

Score.. he was near a lateral, so we made an assumption he was in the water and scored him from hitting 3 at that point instead of hitting 2. He just never thought someone would ask to see it.

 

[Wazmankg]

Did he "ground" the wood behind the ball 1st before changing to an iron? If so, that would not be kosher and a penalty.

It's a fine line. You're allowed to ground your club "lightly" behind the ball. There's nothing that prohibits you from grounding your club then switching to another club that I'm aware of. But you can't improve your lie by pressing your club down behind the ball whether you switch clubs or not. Even a light grounding of the club, especially a wood, behind the ball in the rough might press down some grass and provide a better lie for the club that you had intended to use all along. That's what Gary was accused of doing.

 

[Wazmankg]

It did qualify as a "loose impediment" but it also screamed for a clause requiring a player to remove it under his own power. Otherwise, what's next, a bulldozer?

Yeah it did and they still haven't changed it as far as I know.

 

[NEhomer]

I don't just mark my ball. I put my initials JC in small print under the Titleist lettering. It has saved me many times.

Couple of years ago, I sliced one around the corner of a dogleg par 5 into what was obviously O.B. As we rounded the corner, we saw a ball in the rough. Before we got to it, I told my opponent that not only was it a ProV1 number whatever but I also put my initials on it. Sure enough, there was the JC real clear. He shook his head a bit as anyone would have sworn it was O.B. but it obviously hit a limb and bounced back into play.

Even a dot or two might have left some question but initials removed all doubt.

 

[SFNL]

I got one for you guys that happened to me. Was playing in a FSGA (Florida State Golf Association) event a few years ago and had a morning tee time. It was dewey... On the very first g'damn hole I marked my ball with a marker (that wasn't very heavy) then proceeded to tap the mark down. When I picked my putter back up the marker wasn't there! The damn thing stuck to the bottom of the putter.

Well... I panicked, put the putter back down and swiped the marker off. I didn't know what to do. No one had saw it happen. I called my competitors over and explained to them what had happened. They couldn't believe it and kept asking if I was sure... None of us were sure what to do so I wound up playing 2 balls (1 from the spot that the marker now is and 1 from the spot that I thought the marker had been... There was probably a 2 inch difference. I made the putt from the spot that it originally was which would have been a birdie and missed the one that was closer.

BTW... whenever there is doubt, you should always play the 2 balls then ask an official at the end of the round.

Ultimately the ruling was that I was to keep the score of the replaced ball marker and add a 1 shot penalty to the score from the hole (wound up being par) Thing is, it totally f'd my concentration for about 4 more holes after that wondering if I had accidentally DQ'd myself even though I played the 2 balls like you should.

ANYWAYS... I did the right thing even though sometimes it isn't the easiest thing to do.

 

[TobyTyler]

It was embarrassing, not only for him, but for me as well because I invited him to join the group.

Tourney policy...we were essentially a traveling golf club...once a year we'd travel to a site and played a 54 hole stroke play tourney...scratch. Everyone had similar golf games...pretty much mid to hi 80s.

We were pretty organized, written set of rules that we had developed over time kind of trial and error...on the balls...at the beginning of the tourney each player was to announce what type of ball they would be playing...PV1, B330S, etc. so to ensure that all balls could be identified even if a player in your group was playing the same brand, we had players mark their balls.

Pocket balls...we came up with that just as a pace of play thing...you blow one out into the trees or whatever, instead of going back to the cart, you have one at the ready in your pocket. So...we had to be able to distinguish the provisional from the original ball somehow, thus the "p" was added.

We weren't that strict...it rarely happened, but if you were having a tough round and ran out of your announced "tourney ball" you just tell your playing partner you're putting X ball in play.

Score.. he was near a lateral, so we made an assumption he was in the water and scored him from hitting 3 at that point instead of hitting 2. He just never thought someone would ask to see it.

How embarrassing for the guy. But he got caught so he has to deal with it. I think I would be to ashamed to ever play with you guys again.

 

[TobyTyler]

I don't just mark my ball. I put my initials JC in small print under the Titleist lettering. It has saved me many times.

Couple of years ago, I sliced one around the corner of a dogleg par 5 into what was obviously O.B. As we rounded the corner, we saw a ball in the rough. Before we got to it, I told my opponent that not only was it a ProV1 number whatever but I also put my initials on it. Sure enough, there was the JC real clear. He shook his head a bit as anyone would have sworn it was O.B. but it obviously hit a limb and bounced back into play.

Even a dot or two might have left some question but initials removed all doubt.

Twice that I can think of I've sliced my ball into some rocks on the right side of the fairway and, after searching the area, both times we found it all the way across on the left side of the fairway. My friends always shake their heads at my luck. That is why I clearly mark my ball like you do. Mine all say "I Am The Walrus" on them. I order them that way.

 

[NEhomer]

Oh that sucked SNFL!

We had a tourney years ago and this cat won the net. Well it seems that someone was videotaping.

After the tourney, everyone moved the party to this local bar where someone decided to plug the video in and watch. Well what do you know, here's Mr. Net winner pumping one O.B. on the final hole. He re-tees and pumps another out. The tape then cuts away but of course, the placard with all the scores was brought to the party....hey, what did Mr. Net card on the final hole? He's got a bogey carded and almost got his ass seriously kicked 'cause everyone was drunk by then.

Saw him around the club once or twice more that season, then he was gone for good.

I tell my students on the team you don't EVER cheat. First of all, you know the truth anyway and one day you are going to shoot par or better and having everyone doubt you will make all the cheating you ever did simply not worth it.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

How embarrassing for the guy. But he got caught so he has to deal with it. I think I would be to ashamed to ever play with you guys again.

Like you guys...we had unique markings, not just a dot or something.

The last year we played with a several foursomes was '11, and that happened I think in '09 or '10...we remained friends after that, played some casual rounds, but no, he never played with us again. That happened in the 2nd round, he still finished out the tourney.

Fwiw...he clung to his story of having put his provisional ball in play on the previous hole and just didn't realize it (rolling eyes)...I wasn't in that group so idk, but he did know the rules about putting a new ball in play.

 

[TobyTyler]

Like you guys...we had unique markings, not just a dot or something.

The last year we played with a several foursomes was '11, and that happened I think in '09 or '10...we remained friends after that, played some casual rounds, but no, he never played with us again. That happened in the 2nd round, he still finished out the tourney.

Fwiw...he clung to his story of having put his provisional ball in play on the previous hole and just didn't realize it (rolling eyes)...I wasn't in that group so idk, but he did know the rules about putting a new ball in play.

Well, at least he thought up a good lie that you cannot completely rule out.