Game Thread: Philadelphia Flyers at Chicago Blackhawks 12/11/13 | 8:00pm

[awaz]

I wouldn't trade those guys but the rest of them that I didn't bold, ended up being terrible and I'm pretty sure barring an overnight change, those guys not in bold aren't going to provide anything to anyone significant

At least half of those guys aren't even as good as what the Flyers have, so in some sorts, it's not a fair comparison

And plenty of teams have traded those players already(rightly or wrongly that's another debate for another day) so it's not like those guys were playing well when they were traded

My only point with that was there are guys that don't pan out. So your non-bold guys prove my point even further. And a few of them were touted much higher than any one the flyers have. Angelo expository was a potential 1st overall pick halfway through his draft year.

 

[Maverick426h]

Just a terrible game with regard to defensive coverage. I thought we had the opportunities offensively, we just didn't bury them. Hard to believe we were actually up 1-0 through one. It may have been a different game if up 2-0 or 3-0 like we probably should've been.

Giving up that shorty to Handzus, who is probably the least offensively gifted and one of the slowest guys on their team was a complete joke. Leaving guys like Shaw, Versteeg and Toews wide open around the net on three of the goals was inexcusable. We made it easy for their offense to score, especially with the late 5 on 3. At least 5 of their 7 goals were easily preventable with better positioning/coverage or discipline. Emery had no chance last night.

 

[lasgop8]

The reason we got blown out last night and were taking stupid penalties and were bad in our own zone is Chicago was skating and we were chasing. After period 1 its was all Chicago hustling to get to every puck and skating right out of their zone and right into ours. Cant win hockey games while chasing all game.

 

[Maverick426h]

The reason we got blown out last night and were taking stupid penalties and were bad in our own zone is Chicago was skating and we were chasing. After period 1 its was all Chicago hustling to get to every puck and skating right out of their zone and right into ours. Cant win hockey games while chasing all game.

The good news is that everything we did wrong last night is easily preventable or correctable. The players should know better and if they don't, the coaches will make sure they learn.

 

[Maverick426h]

in the world of contracts, draft picks, and salary caps you have to hope guys will step up. you cant just change them out with new parts any time you want. you get players you think, hope, and believe can be difference makers at the NHL level and then it's up to them to deliver. if they dont, they dont, but you cant decide on thursday that the guy you thought could be good on tuesday, isnt, so replace him with someone new. guys take time to develop. crosby didnt. malkin didnt. ovechkin didnt. kane didnt. you know what they all have in common? they were the 1st or 2nd draft pick. unfortunately when the flyers sucked dick they got screwed in the lottery in a shitty draft year anyway.

zdeno chara was an awkward tall dude until he was 30+.. tim thomas bounced around hockey leagues until he was 33.. hell datsyuk and zetterberg were afterthoughts until they were on the other side of 25.. the crosbys and ovechkins are the exceptions, not the rules. players take time to develop.

Giroux, Couturier, Rinaldo, Raffl, Simmonds, Voracek, L. Schenn, B. Schenn, Gustafsson and for that matter even Mason are all 25 or younger. That's about half of our team on any given night, including 5 of our top 9 forwards and our starting goalie. It just may be too much to expect these guys to be great this early on, but if we're patient, this could be one hell of a team in 2-3 seasons when these guys all hit their prime and we have more help defensively.

 

[awaz]

Giroux, Couturier, Rinaldo, Raffl, Simmonds, Voracek, L. Schenn, B. Schenn, Gustafsson and for that matter even Mason are all 25 or younger. That's about half of our team on any given night, including 5 of our top 9 forwards and our starting goalie. It just may be too much to expect these guys to be great this early on, but if we're patient, this could be one hell of a team in 2-3 seasons when these guys all hit their prime and we have more help defensively.

 

[JBM73]

Giroux, Couturier, Rinaldo, Raffl, Simmonds, Voracek, L. Schenn, B. Schenn, Gustafsson and for that matter even Mason are all 25 or younger. That's about half of our team on any given night, including 5 of our top 9 forwards and our starting goalie. It just may be too much to expect these guys to be great this early on, but if we're patient, this could be one hell of a team in 2-3 seasons when these guys all hit their prime and we have more help defensively.

So we're ready to admit that this team fucking sucks this year, and probably will again next year? Just want to be clear. If it's going to take 2-3 years to be competitive, that's fine. REBUILD. Dump a few vets for picks and prospects. Get those high draft picks the next couple of years. But no, not this team. Holmgren will sign more overpaid, over-the-hill vets again in the offseason in an attempt to be competive, but the only thing they'll accomplish is falling a few spots down in the draft. Actually, I take that back. No way Holmgren is still the GM by the 2014 draft. Book it.

 

[Maverick426h]

So we're ready to admit that this team fucking sucks this year, and probably will again next year? Just want to be clear. If it's going to take 2-3 years to be competitive, that's fine. REBUILD. Dump a few vets for picks and prospects. Get those high draft picks the next couple of years. But no, not this team. Holmgren will sign more overpaid, over-the-hill vets again in the offseason in an attempt to be competive, but the only thing they'll accomplish is falling a few spots down in the draft. Actually, I take that back. No way Holmgren is still the GM by the 2014 draft. Book it.

No, I've maintained all along that we're a playoff team. I'm just saying that it may be a little early to expect us to beat the best team in the Nhl in their building at the end of a six game road trip. I still think a lot of what went on is correctable and we will rebound to make the playoffs. Winning the games within our division and conference will be key to doing this.

The point is, I still think we're ultimately a better team than Carolina, NYR, NJ and Columbus. If these are the teams we have to beat out, and they are, I'm feeling pretty decent about my chances to make the playoffs this season and beyond.

 

[JBM73]

No, I've maintained all along that we're a playoff team. I'm just saying that it may be a little early to expect us to beat the best team in the Nhl in their building at the end of a six game road trip. I still think a lot of what went on is correctable and we will rebound to make the playoffs. Winning the games within our division and conference will be key to doing this.

The point is, I still think we're ultimately a better team than Carolina, NYR, NJ and Columbus. If these are the teams we have to beat out, and they are, I'm feeling pretty decent about my chances to make the playoffs this season and beyond.

Understood, and I guess my point is that squeaking into the playoffs with a bad team simply because the other teams in the division are even worse is doing nothing but hindering this team's chance of ever actually being good enough to win a Cup - because they'll continue to get mid-round draft picks producing mid-level talent leaving a mid-level team, getting mid-round draft picks producing mid-level talent leaving a mid-level team....you get the idea.

 

[awaz]

I think they have enough stellar potential and top picks that as they improve, this team can compete for a cup. Just have to be patient and not waste your cap space on the mark streit's of the world.

 

[Maverick426h]

Understood, and I guess my point is that squeaking into the playoffs with a bad team simply because the other teams in the division are even worse is doing nothing but hindering this team's chance of ever actually being good enough to win a Cup - because they'll continue to get mid-round draft picks producing mid-level talent leaving a mid-level team, getting mid-round draft picks producing mid-level talent leaving a mid-level team....you get the idea.

No team that makes the playoffs is a bad team as far as I'm concerned. Besides, I'd much rather be the third seed in the Metro while skating a team that has a lot of 25 and under players with high potential than dead last while fielding a team of Ahl players, missing the playoffs again and having a shot at the 1st overall pick (which didn't work out too well for us the last time we finished last).

Regardless, every team that makes the playoffs has a chance to get hot and go on a roll all the way to the finals. We did it in 2010. The Kings did it in 2012. It happens.

 

[Cobiemonster]

No team that makes the playoffs is a bad team as far as I'm concerned. Besides, I'd much rather be the third seed in the Metro while skating a team that has a lot of 25 and under players with high potential than dead last while fielding a team of Ahl players, missing the playoffs again and having a shot at the 1st overall pick (which didn't work out too well for us the last time we finished last).

Regardless, every team that makes the playoffs has a chance to get hot and go on a roll all the way to the finals. We did it in 2010. The Kings did it in 2012. It happens.

That's why I've thought all along the Flyers owe it to everyone to try and improve the team, because the goaltending has actually been good this season, and if you get a defenseman that can help this team and maybe another scorer, this team can be really dangerous because good goaltending makes a big difference

 

[JBM73]

No team that makes the playoffs is a bad team as far as I'm concerned. Besides, I'd much rather be the third seed in the Metro while skating a team that has a lot of 25 and under players with high potential than dead last while fielding a team of Ahl players, missing the playoffs again and having a shot at the 1st overall pick (which didn't work out too well for us the last time we finished last).

Regardless, every team that makes the playoffs has a chance to get hot and go on a roll all the way to the finals. We did it in 2010. The Kings did it in 2012. It happens.

The Kings made a major move near the deadline, which is what you're arguing the Flyers shouldn't do.

The Flyers are a better example though, where only a small move - Leino for Tollefsen and a pick - helped create the line that led the Flyers to the Cup Finals.

Still, even the latter example shows that a team that isn't clicking rarely suddenly becomes a Cup contender. The pieces on this team just don't gel well enough together. Perhaps one or two smaller moves long the lines of Talbot for Downey instead of a full blown overhaul, but changes are needed to save the season.

 

[Cobiemonster]

The Kings basically overhauled their roster in the 2nd half of the year, which is what you're arguing the Flyers shouldn't do.

The Flyers are a better example though, where only a small move - Leino for Tollefsen and a pick - helped create the line that led the Flyers to the Cup Finals.

Still, even the latter example shows that a team that isn't clicking rarely suddenly becomes a Cup contender. The pieces on this team just don't gel well enough together. Perhaps one or two smaller moves long the lines of Talbot for Downey instead of a full blown overhaul, but changes are needed to save the season.

That's why I think making a move for Kulikov in Florida would make a big difference because it would make the defensive pairings better - put Kulikov with a guy like Nicklas Grossmann, let Kulikov free wheel and Grossy be the defender, and then put Kimmo with Braydon Coburn and Mark Streit with Erik Gustafsson(my preferred top six on defense without tearing it apart)

They aren't clicking as a team, but the one thing they have going is goaltending - Steve Mason playing well will give them a chance every night

 

[Maverick426h]

The Kings made a major move near the deadline, which is what you're arguing the Flyers shouldn't do.

The Flyers are a better example though, where only a small move - Leino for Tollefsen and a pick - helped create the line that led the Flyers to the Cup Finals.

Still, even the latter example shows that a team that isn't clicking rarely suddenly becomes a Cup contender. The pieces on this team just don't gel well enough together. Perhaps one or two smaller moves long the lines of Talbot for Downey instead of a full blown overhaul, but changes are needed to save the season.

Last I checked, the trade deadline is March 5th and it's only December 12th. That's almost three full months of time to continually evaluate your team moving forward and make tweaks as needed or just to make the team better. I don't want the team blown up and trading top six forwards at this point in the season is exactly that. I'm all for an acquisition or two closer towards the deadline to make a serious playoff push.

 

[JBM73]

Last I checked, the trade deadline is March 5th and it's only December 12th. That's almost three full months of time to continually evaluate your team moving forward and make tweaks as needed or just to make the team better. I don't want the team blown up and trading top six forwards at this point in the season is exactly that. I'm all for an acquisition or two closer towards the deadline to make a serious playoff push.

Fair enough. Fortunately the Flyers are in such a bad division that they can afford a little patience this season.