Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe deserve to be in the HOF

[cezero]

of course Rose does.

it's a joke that so many pre-scandal roidheads made it in, but rose remains excluded.

 

[Cyder]

If Rose's peers decide whether he gets in or not, he NEVER will.

In tha case I would respect their decision.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

of course Rose does.

it's a joke that so many pre-scandal roidheads made it in, but rose remains excluded.

don't be so outraged... it is silly to compare apples with oranges... Pete rose is ONE man who got caught and admitted to do something illegal...

Steroid era is a group of players(nobody truly knows how many), and most of them were never actually caught doing it...

It is much easier to penalize one man than a whole generation of players... especially when the steroids were not a cause for ban until recent years...

 

[Cedrique]

Then again, friends and family shouldn't be lying about something of this magnitude for 18 years.

If a friend/family member made some bad choices with my money but was honest about it all up front, I'd probably be a lot more lenient/understanding than if they lied about it for nearly two decades.

Yeah, the money lending thing is not a perfect analogy, but that's what the guy in the other post gave me to work with so I just went with it.

Also, it doesn't necessarily help my case, but as far as your other point you're right, friends and family shouldn't be lying about something of thiis magnitude, but unfortunately people have been known to be involved in extramarital affairs or with drugs and/or alcohol and lie about it for years or decades.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm not acting like he was unfairly punished all those years he was denying he bet on baseball. He was fairly punished for all those years. But really being stubborn and stupid and not admitting it when everyone knew it was true didn't hurt the game, he only hurt himself by doing that. To me, at this point even 7 years is enough. Today we are so saturated with media that anyone can be famous. In the 70's it was different and a few guys were larger than life and Rose was one of them. Even with the unspeakable acts he committed as a manager he is still a guy whose name is used to complement a player. At his age now, if he can even pretend he is remorseful they should put him in the fucking hall of fame already.

All this controversy means that Rose has a lot more Fame than almost everyone else in the Hall of Fame.

Would anyone outside of some very old timey fans know who Shoeless Joe was if he had been inducted in 1930?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Just curious...

If you had a vote, would you vote for him the year after he died?

Basically I am asking if you think the crime if worthy of just a life-sentence or a perma-ban?

Further, what are your thoughts on Jackson?

I don't think Pete Rose should ever be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. He bet on the game while he was managing a team. That's beyond bad in my book.

I'm conflicted on Jackson. I don't think I know enough about what really happened.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I don't think Pete Rose should ever be elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. He bet on the game while he was managing a team. That's beyond bad in my book.

I'm conflicted on Jackson. I don't think I know enough about what really happened.

Fall 1999: Shoeless Joe Jackson: From "Tragedy" to Farce

Good read written by a good man.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Fall 1999: Shoeless Joe Jackson: From "Tragedy" to Farce

Good read written by a good man.

Thanks. Wow!!

 

[3 & 6 years to go...]

Guilty by association... I believe everyone juiced in that era...

Then there is the fact that he had his best 4 year stretch after the age of 35 (which is a physiological abnormality) -and it just happend to be the years right after his main competition in pitching stardom discovered roids in Canada and rattled off two Cy Young Awards of his own... And, the same time Sosa & McGwire had put on their steroid exhibitions....

It is my opinion that anyone that thinks RJ did NOT juice is turning a blind eye to the obvious.

One day, people will take a step back, look at the big picture and smile at the silly steroid era... In the grand scheme of things, it was a fun 15 years....

But I won't hold it against anyone if they believe RJ et al. were clean...

I my opinion, due to the '94 strike, baseball higher-ups encouraged steroids/knew about them. If they didn't encourage, they certainly turned the other way, and let it go. The '98 HR chase saved the game. Now, these poor guys are seeing/have seen the baseball higher-ups turn their back on them due to the government. All a shame, in my opinion.

Again, this is all my opinion. I have no proof. I just feel strongly about it.

 

[Cedrique]

All this controversy means that Rose has a lot more Fame than almost everyone else in the Hall of Fame.

Would anyone outside of some very old timey fans know who Shoeless Joe was if he had been inducted in 1930?

You're probably right about Joe, but if Rose was not completely banned from baseball I have no doubt that he would be very famous on ESPN or the MLB channel even today.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Then again, friends and family shouldn't be lying about something of this magnitude for 18 years.

If a friend/family member made some bad choices with my money but was honest about it all up front, I'd probably be a lot more lenient/understanding than if they lied about it for nearly two decades.

That's the same kind of thing I tell uncle Lester when I run into him signing autographs for cash down the street from our family reunions.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Wrong. Steroids had been part of baseball's banned substance list since 1991.

Just because it wasn't against the rules, doesn't make it alright though. A person should have enough respect for himself that he wants to develop into a good player without using drugs. It's called integrity and self respect. No one has to ban them for life, but I for one can always think of a player more deserving for the hall of fame then some asshole like Alex Rodriguez who was getting it in the ass for bigger $$$$$$ and chances to win.

 

[burfboy]

The guys on roids are cheating the game....Rose has issues with gambling a recognized problem. ....One of the best I ever saw and I am 62.....let him in....