Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe deserve to be in the HOF

[navamind]

My question is why isn't Jeter in yet?

This was tongue-in-cheek, right?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

It is time to induct these two great players.

Why?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Why?

Because he seems to think that Rose was some sort of victim who was forced to sign away his eligibility.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Rose has no business being in he Hall of Fame. When somebody puts the integrity of the game into question, they deserve to be banned for life.

 

[Cyder]

Rose has no business being in he Hall of Fame. When somebody puts the integrity of the game into question, they deserve to be banned for life.

I felt that way all along. He not only did that but he was arrogant about it and lied through his teeth. But recently I heard an interview with him and I think he finally gets it. He sounded like a beaten man who finally understands this is all his own fault.

There's already something in the Hall for him breaking the record. If he understands and agrees he can never be in uniform again, never work for a team and spends spring trainings talking to first year single A players about what happens if you gamble for a VERY modest per diem (Expenses only) I have no issue with him getting in. Provided the veterans committee votes him in. Let his peers decide.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I felt that way all along. He not only did that but he was arrogant about it and lied through his teeth. But recently I heard an interview with him and I think he finally gets it. He sounded like a beaten man who finally understands this is all his own fault.

There's already something in the Hall for him breaking the record. If he understands and agrees he can never be in uniform again, never work for a team and spends spring trainings talking to first year single A players about what happens if you gamble for a VERY modest per diem (Expenses only) I have no issue with him getting in. Provided the veterans committee votes him in. Let his peers decide.

If Rose's peers decide whether he gets in or not, he NEVER will.

 

[calsnowskier]

Rose has no business being in he Hall of Fame. When somebody puts the integrity of the game into question, they deserve to be banned for life.

Just curious...

If you had a vote, would you vote for him the year after he died?

Basically I am asking if you think the crime if worthy of just a life-sentence or a perma-ban?

Further, what are your thoughts on Jackson?

 

[Cedrique]

Pete Rose did a terrible thing and hurt the game and he was arrogant and lied about it. But what the fuck? It has been 30 years. Putting him in the hall the year he dies or soon after is just sick. And the hall of fame induction is not just for the player, it's for the fans. He's like 75 years old. I know it was a lifetime ban, but prison sentences for much more serious offense are commuted all the time. I think 30 years is enough of a deterrent for current players and managers. And I don't get the whole "Even if Bonds and Clemens did steroids it doesn't matter because they would have been hall of famers anyway" argument. Shit, Pete Rose would have had 4000 hits whether he gambled as a manager or not. In fact he Did accomplish everything before his offense. If he had been caught gambling after he was already inducted as a player would they have gone back and blown up the bust of his head? And if they do induct him 20 minutes after he is dead who is going to do the acceptance speech? And how could they give a speech without being bitter about having to do it under those circumstances?

 

[calsnowskier]

Pete Rose did a terrible thing and hurt the game and he was arrogant and lied about it. But what the fuck? It has been 30 years. Putting him in the hall the year he dies or soon after is just sick. And the hall of fame induction is not just for the player, it's for the fans. He's like 75 years old. I know it was a lifetime ban, but prison sentences for much more serious offense are commuted all the time. I think 30 years is enough of a deterrent for current players and managers. And I don't get the whole "Even if Bonds and Clemens did steroids it doesn't matter because they would have been hall of famers anyway" argument. Shit, Pete Rose would have had 4000 hits whether he gambled as a manager or not. In fact he Did accomplish everything before his offense. If he had been caught gambling after he was already inducted as a player would they have gone back and blown up the bust of his head? And if they do induct him 20 minutes after he is dead who is going to do the acceptance speech? And how could they give a speech without being bitter about having to do it under those circumstances?

1) Rose agreed to the ban to stop the investigation.

2) Bonds and Clemens broke no baseball rules.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

1) Rose agreed to the ban to stop the investigation.

2) Bonds and Clemens broke no baseball rules.

not to mention, it is much easier to keep one man out(Rose) than keeping a whole generation out(steroids)...

 

[Cedrique]

1) Rose agreed to the ban to stop the investigation.

2) Bonds and Clemens broke no baseball rules.

1) I still think at this point he should be forgiven. 30 years is long enough. His offenses happened after his playing career. Even with his behavior as a manager his example and work ethic and accomplishments as a player should still be acknowledged.

2. That is a good argument. Much better than, "they were good anyway".

 

[Cedrique]

Guys like Bonds and Clemens and McGwire bring up an interesting question. You can argue that they didn't break the rules so they should be in, along with other players of that era. But what about guys that broke the rules and served their suspensions but did not break them enough to get the lifetime ban. Will they go to the hall of fame? Manny Ramirez is a good example. Based on his stats alone I think he would be in. And he didn't break any rules at least up until 2003, but was suspended at the end of his career in 2009 and then again the next year or something.

 

[StanMarsh51]

1) I still think at this point he should be forgiven. 30 years is long enough. His offenses happened after his playing career. Even with his behavior as a manager his example and work ethic and accomplishments as a player should still be acknowledged.

2. That is a good argument. Much better than, "they were good anyway".

Rose lied for 18 of the 25 years he's been banned (didn't admit to betting on games until 2007), so let's not act like he was unfairly punished all those years when he was still denying that he bet on baseball.

If he came clean immediately, he might be looked at more favorably by some than him lying for nearly two decades about it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Rose lied for 18 of the 25 years he's been banned (didn't admit to betting on games until 2007), so let's not act like he was unfairly punished all those years when he was still denying that he bet on baseball.

If he came clean immediately, he might be looked at more favorably by some than him lying for nearly two decades about it.

And he only came clean to sell books.

 

[Indrid Cold]

And he only came clean to sell books.

Pete needs to apologize for THIS FUCKING HAIRCUT before he can even be considered for forgiveness and the HOF!!!

 

[Cedrique]

Rose lied for 18 of the 25 years he's been banned (didn't admit to betting on games until 2007), so let's not act like he was unfairly punished all those years when he was still denying that he bet on baseball.

If he came clean immediately, he might be looked at more favorably by some than him lying for nearly two decades about it.

I'm not acting like he was unfairly punished all those years he was denying he bet on baseball. He was fairly punished for all those years. But really being stubborn and stupid and not admitting it when everyone knew it was true didn't hurt the game, he only hurt himself by doing that. To me, at this point even 7 years is enough. Today we are so saturated with media that anyone can be famous. In the 70's it was different and a few guys were larger than life and Rose was one of them. Even with the unspeakable acts he committed as a manager he is still a guy whose name is used to complement a player. At his age now, if he can even pretend he is remorseful they should put him in the fucking hall of fame already.

 

[calsnowskier]

Suppose you loan me $100,000 to be paid back over 20 years. After 15 years, you would decide that I had paid enough and allow me to stop paying?

Sweet.

Can I borrow some money?

 

[Cedrique]

Suppose you loan me $100,000 to be paid back over 20 years. After 15 years, you would decide that I had paid enough and allow me to stop paying?

Sweet.

Can I borrow some money?

I don't know you and unfortunately I don't have 100 grand lying around. But suppose I had a friend who I loaned $100,000 he needed because he made some bad choices. We agreed he should be able to pay back $100 for 20 years. If we are 15 years in now and I see that $100 a week is still all he can give me then yeah, there is a good chance I might forgive the rest of the debt and let him enjoy his remaining years. This kind of thing happens a lot among friends and family.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I don't know you and unfortunately I don't have 100 grand lying around. But suppose I had a friend who I loaned $100,000 he needed because he made some bad choices. We agreed he should be able to pay back $100 for 20 years. If we are 15 years in now and I see that $100 a week is still all he can give me then yeah, there is a good chance I might forgive the rest of the debt and let him enjoy his remaining years. This kind of thing happens a lot among friends and family.

Then again, friends and family shouldn't be lying about something of this magnitude for 18 years.

If a friend/family member made some bad choices with my money but was honest about it all up front, I'd probably be a lot more lenient/understanding than if they lied about it for nearly two decades.

 

[tducey]

Rose does I know that for sure.