Perry Riley and Redskins have made little progress so far in contract talks

[skinz2winz]

I'm with Shark on this one. Pay the man and move on to other positions of need.

Paying Riley what he and his agent wants is one thing, paying him based on performance past is another. He played out his first contract (Got paid mind you) and did reasonably well but did NOT distinguish himself from other average ILB's in the league. Rather, most of his tackles were down field, not at or near the LOS. His job in the 3-4 is too lead the team in tackles and make them within 3 yards of either side of the LOS. Riley is adequate in pass coverage, adequate in run support and quite frankly, has not been the leader of our defense to this point given Fletcher was here.

So, you want to "pay the man" based on what you think he might do or become? Hell no, pay him based on what we have seen, what the market bares, and what his true value as of today holds. He deserves a solid raise as he played well for the value of his last deal, I will give you that. I would like him to stay and would be willing to pay $4-$4.5 per year with incentives that could reach $5M per year. We just paid Hall $5M per year and Riley did not out perform Hall, granted they play different positions.

In order to improve at this position, in all likelihood, we will need to place a very talented ILB next to Riley in order to do so. I'm of the opinion Riley may improve a bit, but not reach "star" status at any point in his career to be honest. He is solid, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[countryroads316]

Paying Riley what he and his agent wants is one thing, paying him based on performance past is another. He played out his first contract (Got paid mind you) and did reasonably well but did NOT distinguish himself from other average ILB's in the league. Rather, most of his tackles were down field, not at or near the LOS. His job in the 3-4 is too lead the team in tackles and make them within 3 yards of either side of the LOS. Riley is adequate in pass coverage, adequate in run support and quite frankly, has not been the leader of our defense to this point given Fletcher was here.

So, you want to "pay the man" based on what you think he might do or become? Hell no, pay him based on what we have seen, what the market bares, and what his true value as of today holds. He deserves a solid raise as he played well for the value of his last deal, I will give you that. I would like him to stay and would be willing to pay $4-$4.5 per year with incentives that could reach $5M per year. We just paid Hall $5M per year and Riley did not out perform Hall, granted they play different positions.

In order to improve at this position, in all likelihood, we will need to place a very talented ILB next to Riley in order to do so. I'm of the opinion Riley may improve a bit, but not reach "star" status at any point in his career to be honest. He is solid, nothing more, nothing less.

Did not pay Hall 5 million a year its for 4 years 17 million and I think if someone helps me out here with the way its structured probably just alittle over 3 million with incentives etc

 

[Sleepy T]

True, and you further validated his point roads...paying Riley any more than 1.5-2 times what you would pay Hall would be foolish. Hall has outperformed Riley at his respective position, a CB position that is financially much more valuable than ILB.

I know Riley is much younger and could and should get better. There is some value in continuity and a long term deal for a pretty good player. But a couple extra million dollars for 2 or 3 players can add up and possibly mean the difference in a what you can afford to at another position (or more). Do you want a top tier Safety or someone that isn't a ginormous upgrade from what we already have?? Well 5 or 6 million would probably be the difference. Money is pretty tight wrt the cap. Need to make smart, yet fair decisions for the guys already on the team.

 

[j_y19]

This is all a function of what the market will bear. I just don't see any other team paying Riley over $5M/year. He is not even in the top 5, maybe not top 10 FA ILB available. He is worth more to us than any other team, but not at a 40% premium. This is a situation where you give the guy a fair offer based on your market analysis, show him why you came up with the offer and if he disagrees, let him test the water to prove you right or wrong. But make sure he understands that while he is testing the FA waters, so will we be. We will be looking for his replacement.

 

[bworku]

This is all a function of what the market will bear. I just don't see any other team paying Riley over $5M/year. He is not even in the top 5, maybe not top 10 FA ILB available. He is worth more to us than any other team, but not at a 40% premium. This is a situation where you give the guy a fair offer based on your market analysis, show him why you came up with the offer and if he disagrees, let him test the water to prove you right or wrong. But make sure he understands that while he is testing the FA waters, so will we be. We will be looking for his replacement.

Agreeeeeee

 

[Sharkinva]

I think the real problem here is what it always seems to be with this team and fan base. Solid simply isnt good enough apparently. Every one wants to go after the playmaker, and apparently no one would grouse about paying a "playmaker" that kind of money. But if this team had 3-4 more solid guys like Riley on defense last year, you think we would have been a little better on defense? I say, give Riley a deal that COULD average the $7 million a year he wants, provided he hits certain performance clauses set into the deal. Both sides win in that case. I have always thought it was a bit backwards that we would overpay some one elses star but have a habit of trying to lowball our own.

 

[j_y19]

If he would take a deal that included performance incentives that if he achieved he would get $7M, I'd be ok with that. But those incentives would have to be meaningful (total tackles, INTs, turnovers, etc) and would damn near put him in the PB.

 

[Sharkinva]

If he would take a deal that included performance incentives that if he achieved he would get $7M, I'd be ok with that. But those incentives would have to be meaningful (total tackles, INTs, turnovers, etc) and would damn near put him in the PB.

Well if sentiment around here is any indecator, they offered him a deal that will max out at $5 million a year, and likely lower than that. Because thats just how we apparently roll.

 

[skinz2winz]

An incentive laden deal will earn Riley more money if he achieves those performance clauses. Likely, it will also earn him PB status and the respect of his peers which besides money, is all these guys really want anyway. No one said Riley wasn't good enough Shark. Along with paying Riley, in order to truly improve the team and defense in particular, we need to add better talent around Riley who appears to be ready to take over for Fletcher in terms of a leadership role. We have to pay a few others (possibly 2-3 FA) fair market value for their services. Does Riley want to be paid and screw the rest of the defense in terms of the "ultimate goal" which is to improve on last years disaster on defense or does he get the big picture? I can earn $5M a year for the next 4-5 years, be the leader of our defense, and allow management to pay a few other FA who will help the defense improve drastically or I can test FA and enter the "unknown" and take my chances. We shall see with Riley but ultimately I think he ends up a Redskin and a happy one at that.


I also hope we add the following FA's on defense minus the names: (1) CB, (1) S, (1) ILB, (1) DL. With the Hall signing I think he and Amerson will start and hopefully we bring in a veteran like Grimes. I believe you will see Thomas return healthy and we sign a young veteran safety with tons of upside. I'm not saying management needs to break the bank on any of these signings. I'm looking for guys under 30, value, upside and strong character. That likely leaves us with the following FA signings on offense minus the names: (1) C, (1) G, (1) OT, (1) WR. Again, no need to spend big money with the exception of possibly signing Mack to anchor our line & truly upgrading our right OT position.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

wow, Shark kinda has me thinking a little bit about Riley. Obviously the majority of us don't feel he's worth more than 4-5mil a year. And that's based on his past play and possible potential. I've seen games where he looks like a top 10 ILB, and then games where he should be cut. Again another problem could be how Haslett is using him. Riley and Fletcher were solid blitzers, but that part of their games is hardly used.
I think Riley would be a huge re-signing BUT, I'm with the group that feel his contract max is 5mil/yr.
He knows the system BUT if we put a rookie next to him, that could be terrible. We almost have to sign another guy who will probably seek 3-5mil/yr. I don't see any k.Alonso's falling our way.

I will say we don't want another LorenzoAx situation

 

[gkekoa]

I am all for incentive laden contracts. If he thinks his value is 7 mil and we think it is 3 mil...

2 mil base
1 mil bonus for 100 tackles
2 mil for 110 tackles
3 mil for 125 tackles
4 mil for 140
5 mil if he leads the league

 

[Sharkinva]

If thats the best deal he can get from us as a starter, I hope he walks for his sake and we bring in our "playmaker".

 

[gkekoa]

You seem to miss the point Shark. If the impasse is he believes his value is extremely high and wants to earn that money, let him earn it. If we believe his value is closer to that of the market, offer him less and allow him to earn what he believes his value is.




If he wants to play for a salary that is closer to the market, then give him that contract but you don't offer the market and incentives beyond the market.

 

[Sharkinva]

You seem to miss the point Shark. If the impasse is he believes his value is extremely high and wants to earn that money, let him earn it. If we believe his value is closer to that of the market, offer him less and allow him to earn what he believes his value is.




If he wants to play for a salary that is closer to the market, then give him that contract but you don't offer the market and incentives beyond the market.

And you seem to be missing my point. You guys want him to play for as little as possible because he isnt the playmaker you all wish we had. And to a point i get that. But every few years we have a guy like this, not a playmaker, but solid. And worth a hell of alot more than a backups salary which every one wants him to play for. So if thats the case, I hope he is smart like Rogers, Clark and a list of other Solid not spectacular guys who we didnt want to take care of to chase the playmaker. We NEED to start rewarding our Solid players and keeping them around. Because sure as shit if he walks, we are going to offer some one like Spikes more and not a one of you will bitch.... until he turns out to be the next Atogwe, Carter, Haynesworth or hell you all know the list.

 

[skinsdad62]

shark sometimes you simply drive me nuts . what if riley is asking 9 or 10 mil a season ? do we sign him then ?

5 mil for riley is a 400% raise a 400% freaking raise and you are telling me that he isnt "appreciated" ?

sure i like solid . but do i have to pay above avg price for "solid "

what next ? 5 mil for doughty ?

we have a history of overpaying for talent . the fact is we can get a player at riley's level for 5 mil so if riley wants more i say let him go find it . a spikes or a fletcher can give us the same production as riley .

i dont need a star , or a playmaker . i am fine with solid . but i want solid at the solid price not the above avg price

 

[Sharkinva]

shark sometimes you simply drive me nuts . what if riley is asking 9 or 10 mil a season ? do we sign him then ?

5 mil for riley is a 400% raise a 400% freaking raise and you are telling me that he isnt "appreciated" ?

sure i like solid . but do i have to pay above avg price for "solid "

what next ? 5 mil for doughty ?

we have a history of overpaying for talent . the fact is we can get a player at riley's level for 5 mil so if riley wants more i say let him go find it . a spikes or a fletcher can give us the same production as riley .

i dont need a star , or a playmaker . i am fine with solid . but i want solid at the solid price not the above avg price

One i doubt he is asking for 9-10 million a season.

Two... if I was paying you $2.50 an hour for a job that is paying $12 an hour every place else, but I offered you $10 an hour do you feel excited, or still under valued?

three we have a history of overpaying for OTHER teams talent. Our own guys, we take every oppertunity to lowball or screw over. this above all needs to change.


Four Most aroung here think Riley is at best on the low end of that scale. and some are actually thinking he should make no more than an above average backup.

But as i have said.... I hope we do get some of these guys you all say will be just as good as Riley. And in two years all I ask is no one bitch about how we over paid these guys while riley continued to be solid for some one else.

Deal??

 

[skinsdad62]

One i doubt he is asking for 9-10 million a season.

Two... if I was paying you $2.50 an hour for a job that is paying $12 an hour every place else, but I offered you $10 an hour do you feel excited, or still under valued?

three we have a history of overpaying for OTHER teams talent. Our own guys, we take every oppertunity to lowball or screw over. this above all needs to change.


Four Most aroung here think Riley is at best on the low end of that scale. and some are actually thinking he should make no more than an above average backup.

But as i have said.... I hope we do get some of these guys you all say will be just as good as Riley. And in two years all I ask is no one bitch about how we over paid these guys while riley continued to be solid for some one else.

Deal??

i am just trying to guage what you think is the max we need to go on riley

why do i care about a 12 dollar an hour job and getting paid 10 , we are talking about millions and certainly he will have the chance to be set for life with the 400% raise

we didnt overpay for LBF did we ? garcon ? hall ? we have a new GM now who is in control , all the past is gone until proven otherwise

 

[Sharkinva]

i am just trying to guage what you think is the max we need to go on riley

why do i care about a 12 dollar an hour job and getting paid 10 , we are talking about millions and certainly he will have the chance to be set for life with the 400% raise

we didnt overpay for LBF did we ? garcon ? hall ? we have a new GM now who is in control , all the past is gone until proven otherwise

Why would any of these guys care in the grand scheme of things. Even making $450k a year for five years, most normal people should be able to live comfortably and never have a care in the world after four years. But the reality is, when ever you are trying to get a job, you gauge what the position is paying in the industry and shoot for that. Riley is basing his contract requests off of what Ellerbe and Lee got last year. And I think he is justified. He performed better than Ellerbe last year, and while Lee was more of a play maker in the INT department, he had Zero sacks and cant stay healthy to save his life.

 

[skinz2winz]

If thats the best deal he can get from us as a starter, I hope he walks for his sake and we bring in our "playmaker".

You are so hard headed Shark. We all hope Riley turns into a "playmaker" for the Skins at 3-4 years, $5M per year. That is a VERY fair contract for Riley. Pair him with another solid FA ILB (solid is good enough for me and most of the fan base) and we have a very good LB core with Riley, Orakpo, Kerrigan, Jackson, Jenkins, Robinson, FA & draft pick.

 

[Sharkinva]

You are so hard headed Shark. We all hope Riley turns into a "playmaker" for the Skins at 3-4 years, $5M per year. That is a VERY fair contract for Riley. Pair him with another solid FA ILB (solid is good enough for me and most of the fan base) and we have a very good LB core with Riley, Orakpo, Kerrigan, Jackson, Jenkins, Robinson, FA & draft pick.

I take that as a compliment dude. Because I have seen far too many times over the past 15 years, this team screw the monkey when it comes to our own. I do think Riley is worth every penny Ellerbe got last year and I think he will become more than just solid for us. He is better than Spikes. But in the end I would rather see him leave than stay for a deal that under pays him which is what most seem to want.