Pens persuing R.Niedermayer

[ELYEAH82]

One last thing. And there's a reason Staal hasn't been given a top six role or top power play minutes. He hasn't belonged there. He at least hasn't proven he does in the numerous chances he's been given. It's not like you are seeing something the Penguins' coaching staff isn't. Dan Bylsma isn't oblivious to this 100-point player he has stuck on the third line and 2nd power play unit. If Staal was as good as Malkin, even the worst hockey coach in the league would be able to judge that and give him an the appropriate role.

Staal plays a different roll, and that is the shutdown line. When were all these chances Stall had to prove it he belonged on the top 2 lines? Is it when he was a rookie playing wing and scored 29 goals? You seem to think Staal is this joke out there and Geno is 50X better is a fucking joke. If this is what you see between the 2 then you clearly are not ready to discuss hockey.

 

[ELYEAH82]

I think to get max value out of them playing together would be to have Malkin play wing and Staal player center because Malkin is about 150x a better wing than Staal, while being only about 50x a better center than Staal.

*Multiplier of times better Malkin is at each position is exaggerated for effect*

You should delete this, you look like a dumbass.

 

[HonusWagner66]

Staal plays a different roll, and that is the shutdown line. When were all these chances Stall had to prove it he belonged on the top 2 lines? Is it when he was a rookie playing wing and scored 29 goals? You seem to think Staal is this joke out there and Geno is 50X better is a fucking joke. If this is what you see between the 2 then you clearly are not ready to discuss hockey.

I don't think Staal is a joke. I never said that. In fact I said he is a good shutdown center. It is clear to every hockey fan out there that Malkin is a better player though.

Staal was given time with Crosby and Malkin at various points after his rookie season. He was less than impressive. The Penguins didn't just say "hey, Staal was good at wing his rookie year, let's not put him there again". They have. It didn't work. They tried him in front of the net on the power play. He got pushed around too easily.

 

[HonusWagner66]

You should delete this, you look like a dumbass.

Someone who thinks Jordan Staal is better than Evgeni Malkin is calling someone else a dumbass? *Priceless*

And what I said is true. The disparity between Malkin and Staal at wing is more than the disparity between Malkin and Staal at center. If you didn't agree with that, you wouldn't be arguing Staal should play center or even Staal is the better center.

 

[HonusWagner66]

And like I said in the post you quoted, the Penguins coaching staff sees and knows more about Staal than we do. If he was capable of playing at the level of an Evgeni Malkin, he'd be in the top six. He's not though. That's beyond obvious to 99.999% of people who've seen the two players play.

 

[pixburgher66]

staal is still a talented enough player to be top 6 though, just not with sid and geno on the roster. i just think putting staal and geno on the line together again would maximize each of their potential. there just aren't enough wingers available in the market...not worthy ones (and...well...exceedingly cheap). the organization obviously is starting to feel that malkin to the wing is the answer. shero did say it was being considered and he's looking to some veteran centers in the market. should be interesting to see what that final move will be.

 

[HonusWagner66]

staal is still a talented enough player to be top 6 though, just not with sid and geno on the roster. i just think putting staal and geno on the line together again would maximize each of their potential. there just aren't enough wingers available in the market...not worthy ones (and...well...exceedingly cheap). the organization obviously is starting to feel that malkin to the wing is the answer. shero did say it was being considered and he's looking to some veteran centers in the market. should be interesting to see what that final move will be.

I wouldn't have a problem with Staal in the top six. I actually think he'd be fine. I've even said I'd be fine if he were to center Malkin.

But it is beyond asinine to argue Staal is a better player than Malkin. Sorry, elyeah82 or whatever your screen name is.

 

[ELYEAH82]

Someone who thinks Jordan Staal is better than Evgeni Malkin is calling someone else a dumbass? *Priceless*

And what I said is true. The disparity between Malkin and Staal at wing is more than the disparity between Malkin and Staal at center. If you didn't agree with that, you wouldn't be arguing Staal should play center or even Staal is the better center.

I am saying it is arguable given their talents and rolls, there is not a sane person out their that says anyone in the league is 50x the players Staal is. That is just ridiculous.

 

[devs30rko]

at this stage in his career, having seen plenty of him last season rob is hit or miss.

i don't want to be too hard on him because his one consistant linemate (pandolfo) doens't help him look good, but he started the season very well and then fell off.
i don't know if his legs or gone or what but he often looked slightly lazy which we all know for him having seen earlier in his career is out of character for him.

i don't know how he'd blend in with a more offensive team like pitt, but like i said.
hit or miss

 

[Vadered]

I am saying it is arguable given their talents and rolls, there is not a sane person out their that says anyone in the league is 50x the players Staal is. That is just ridiculous.

Clearly you haven't seen Micheal Ovechkicrosbimillerchuck play.

 

[NJDevils_30]

Wow, I truly hope the Pens sign Rob N. He's beyond washed up. He's the biggest glider in the league. He avoids contact and we called him Glidermayer last season. What an absolute embarrassment.

 

[Dacks]

I am saying it is arguable given their talents and rolls, there is not a sane person out their that says anyone in the league is 50x the players Staal is. That is just ridiculous.

Did you miss where Honus said *Multiplier of times better Malkin is at each position is exaggerated for effect*?

And Staal is nowhere near Malkin. One third-place Selke result doesn't approach an Art Ross, Hart runner-up, CM trophy win, plus multiple 100+ seasons.

 

[HonusWagner66]

I am saying it is arguable given their talents and rolls, there is not a sane person out their that says anyone in the league is 50x the players Staal is. That is just ridiculous.

Yeah, it's not like I said:

"*Multiplier of times better Malkin is at each position is exaggerated for effect*"

Oh wait, I did. Sorry. Malkin is 3.5682x the better wing than Staal, and 2.00213x the better center.

And it's not arguable. Crosby vs. Malkin is arguable. Datsyuk vs Malkin is arguable. There is not a sane person in the world that would take Staal over Malkin. He was given his shutdown role for a reason -- he can't play at a Crosby or Malkin level.

Ok, say this. You're the Washington Capitals GM. Backstrom has retired to start a career in real estate. You need a new center for OV and Semin. The Penguins, in need for a salary dump in order to re-sign defenseman Ben Lovejoy to a long term deal, contact you and say they are willing to trade you either Malkin or Staal in exchange for a draft pick. They will even pay the difference in Malkin's salary compared to Staal's.

Do you think anyone in they're right mind would be like... "yeah, give me Staal." No. it's ridiculous.

I did a little math.

Staal has scored 1 goal for every 56 minutes of power play time he has had over his career. That's a slight improvement over his 1 goal every 66 minutes of even strength time over his career. Regardless whether that's the 1st or 2nd power play unit, he's proven to be only slightly more productive facing less defenders on the ice than he is in his "shutdown" role.

And even if all of those minutes were on the 2nd power play unit, he'd still be with guys like Talbot, Fedotenko, Sykora, ect. You know, guys Malkin plays with even strength facing 5 defenders. Should I post Malkin's scoring rate even strength and compare it to Staal's power play rate? What about Malkin's power play rate?

If Staal has scored at a mediocre rate on the power play with top 6 wings, what makes you think he could put up Malkin type numbers if "he was just given a chance in the top six"? He wouldn't. There is no way he pots 50+ more points a year by simply moving into a different role. If that were possible, the Penguins' would've clearly made the move.

 

[dash]

I love this thread

 

[quoipourquoi]

I think if Jordan Staal was given a regular top-line spot, he could produce really well. It wouldn't surprise me to see him with better numbers than Malkin when they reach their 30s, only with a better defensive responsibility ingrained into his game. If I'm a GM, I steal him from the Penguins ASAP.

I like Rob Niedermayer. He could be a good fit with Pittsburgh.

 

[ELYEAH82]

If Malkin played every game like the 09 playoffs he might be the best player in the league. Fact is he doesnt have the passion players like Sid and OV have. If he ever gets to that point he would be unstoppable be he hasn't so yeah I would take Staal over Malkin hands down.