Penn State: Possible Lengthy Bowl Ban amd Scholarship Losses

[NinerSickness]

Crime Rate is more culture based than anything.

I'm gonna have to get all serious on you for saying that because you simply don't understand how human beings act & what motivates them. If you're lax on crime it will run rampant. If you bring the heavy hand of justice on a people they will fear teh repercussions.

and why only the football team when the Athletic Director and school vice president two other culprits in the cover up?

If I had my way, every adult human being in the country would be a mandatory reporter of child sexual abuse (only sexual abuse; other kinds of "abuse" issues are too much of a slippery slope). Those men deserve to rot in prison the rest of their lives. However, there is really nothing anyone can do to them from a legal standpoint.

Why only the football team? Because Sandusky was a football coach and football coaches covered this up. This wasn't a Penn State sports problem; this was a Penn State football problem.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

If you're lax on crime it will run rampant.

Tell that to the Dutch, or Japanese.

I wouldn't say it all boils down to culture, obviously economic considerations are at least a factor, but to say it all comes down to severity of justice system is certainly too simplistic as well. Some countries just work better than others, in large part due to the characteristics of their population.

This may or may not be relevant, but one of my all-time favorite passages from the brilliant War Nerd:

"There are some countries that turn into pyscho killers once they put on a uniform, but wouldn’t even run a yellow light once they’re in civvies again. Two classic examples: the Japanese and Germans. The Japanese did things in China that just don’t bear thinkin’ about…beheading contests, sword practice on pregnant Chinese prisoners, baby-bayoneting volleyball — but those same soldiers went home and turned into shy little salary-men who wouldn’t jaywalk, never mind hurt anybody. Same with the Germans: let’em loose in a gray helmet and they think up stuff that’d make Saddam ashamed — but back home in Dusseldorf they’d die before they’d drop a popsicle stick on the sidewalk.

Then there are the countries that kill real good in private life but won’t fight in uniform — Italians, say. Mean fuckers on the street, in the alley, but put one in a uniform and he can’t wait to throw away his rifle and find a nice cozy cellar to hide out in.

And now that I've dragged the conversation off into a triple-tangent, carry on.

 

[RobertPhD01]

I agree, seems like this only punishes people who had nothing to do with what happened. Doesn't the football program generate most of the money needed to run these big colleges? Or does the football program only make pure profit for the school?

Beware of the Lack of Institutional Control!!:charlie: Go 49ers!!

 

[NinerSickness]

Tell that to the Dutch, or Japanese.

Ok. Dutch & Japanese, listen up. If you're lax on crime it'll run rampant.

You're right that there are other factors. Japan has the oldest population on earth, and older people commit fewer crimes. Then there are countries like Sudan where it's like a war zone in certain places and there is no system of justice. But the severity of punishment is a factor that can manipulate the crime rate one way or the other (all other factors being equal).

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Ok. Dutch & Japanese, listen up. If you're lax on crime it'll run rampant.

You're right that there are other factors. Japan has the oldest population on earth, and older people commit fewer crimes. Then there are countries like Sudan where it's like a war zone in certain places and there is no system of justice. But the severity of punishment is a factor that can manipulate the crime rate one way or the other (all other factors being equal).

lol....:ballchain:

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Agreed. Best idea I've heard on anything related to this topic.

Nice avy bro.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm gonna have to get all serious on you for saying that because you simply don't understand how human beings act & what motivates them. If you're lax on crime it will run rampant. If you bring the heavy hand of justice on a people they will fear teh repercussions.

If that's the case, why is the homicide rate in the US, which has the death penalty and extremely high rates of incarceration, markedly higher than the homicide rate throughout Western Europe, where they don't have the death penalty and incarcerate a fraction of the criminals?

The numbers just don't back up your claim at all, Sick. Now, if we're talking the death penalty or corporal punishment for less serious crimes, you may have an argument. Is that what you're proposing?

 

[NinerSickness]

Repped.

I'm sure this is an idea everyone could get behind!

There are many, huge problems with the idea. First of all, I don't think the NCAA can legally confiscate money PSU makes from its football program.

Secondly, there even if the NCAA could confiscate all the money they make, who's to say where the money should go? That kind of thing always just end up being a slush fund or a payoff for friends.

Third, if PSU had to give up all the money they make from the season, they'd simply manipulate their numbers so that their profit went to other things. In other words, they would function like a non-profit for the season, and what would've been declared profit would become a slush fund.

Ideas like this always sound great, but they never work in real life.

 

[NinerSickness]

If that's the case, why is the homicide rate in the US, which has the death penalty and extremely high rates of incarceration, markedly higher than the homicide rate throughout Western Europe, where they don't have the death penalty and incarcerate a fraction of the criminals?

The numbers just don't back up your claim at all, Sick. Now, if we're talking the death penalty or corporal punishment for less serious crimes, you may have an argument. Is that what you're proposing?

We're getting WAY too general with a lot of different factors here. For starters, not all states have the death penalty, and it's so rarely used and takes so long to go through with it, the punishment has become completely marginalized here. That's just one of a bunch of problems with the comparison...

All I'm saying is that when all other factors are equal, harsh punishment and high enforcement of a crime deters it. The PSU football program, and a litany of D-bags therein committed one of the worst crimes one can commit. It deserves a harsher punishment than what SMU got.

Here's the difference: SMU's violations were financial, and that's the only thing with which the corrupt NCAA is concerned. They could honestly care less about justice or children. For this reason alone, I don't think I'll ever go to a college football game in my life. I'd have to think about it, but I'm pretty pissed off at the spineless NCAA & PSU.

Like I said, I think every adult human being in the US should be a mandatory reporter of sexual abuse when it comes to children. Every one of those A-holes should rot in prison for at least 20 years.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't want to get into a death penalty debate here, I just think that enough goes into crime rates that simply saying being tougher on crime would solve the problem is far too simplistic and questionable. The death penalty aside, incarceration rates and sentences in the US are far higher than most of the industrialized world, yet our crime rates are as bad or worse (homicide far worse, other numbers fairly comparable). Clearly more goes into it than simply being "soft on crime."

As for Penn State, it's pretty clear at this point that much of the upper administration and pretty much all of the athletic department had at least some inkling what was going on, if not a very good sense. To me, the most unforgivable and unfathomable part of the entire disaster was giving Sandusky the keys and free rein to the facility for his camp for children. WTF were they thinking? I suppose I can understand trying to keep things quiet or giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but I can't understand giving him license to keep doing it on campus. That's practically accessory as far as I'm concerned.

Now, I appreciate the "how does that help the victims?" question, but that's not the only question at issue here. The other is, "how do we make sure this doesn't happen again?" And to accomplish that, you probably do need to come down pretty hard on Penn State. It's really shitty for the kids who decided to go play football there, and arguably worse for all the other students, local businesses, etc. that will suffer if the football program is hit hard or even eliminated. But this sort of behavior is simply unacceptable, and there's reason to believe it's part of the culture of NCAA football (not saying most schools are housing child molesters, but the turning of a blind eye to wrongdoing of some sort almost certainly is). I can see why they'd hit the school hard.

 

[clyde_carbon]

If that's the case, why is the homicide rate in the US, which has the death penalty and extremely high rates of incarceration, markedly higher than the homicide rate throughout Western Europe, where they don't have the death penalty and incarcerate a fraction of the criminals?

The numbers just don't back up your claim at all, Sick. Now, if we're talking the death penalty or corporal punishment for less serious crimes, you may have an argument. Is that what you're proposing?

I don't think that's fair. One, not all states have the death penalty. Even ones that do rarely use it. Since California reinstated the death penalty in 1976 only 13 prisoners were eventually killed by the state.

 

[MHSL82]

There are many, huge problems with the idea. First of all, I don't think the NCAA can legally confiscate money PSU makes from its football program.

Secondly, there even if the NCAA could confiscate all the money they make, who's to say where the money should go? That kind of thing always just end up being a slush fund or a payoff for friends.

Third, if PSU had to give up all the money they make from the season, they'd simply manipulate their numbers so that their profit went to other things. In other words, they would function like a non-profit for the season, and what would've been declared profit would become a slush fund.

Ideas like this always sound great, but they never work in real life.

Yeah, the idea wasn't practical, but if it were, it would help victims more than any other idea, because while it allows the team to go to the bowl game, no university would be better off than receiving the money. But yeah, I knew it wasn't probable or even possible, I just was trying to answer the helping the victims without punishing the students and athletes.

But as you and Crimson have said, there's more to it than just these victims, to really deter other Universities and prevent future victims of all types that potentially would go unreported, high punishment is warranted. I just hope they give the student athletes meaningful time to transfer and I hope the students had actual education in mind over football (at USC, sometimes it felt that students were there for the football, though I know that's not true).

 

[Kinzu]

I think they are looking at 5+ years of heavy scholarship losses and bowl bans. I would like to see the money from those loss scholarships have to be giving to a fund for Child Abuse or to the victims. This will not just be on the Football program though. I think some of the sanctions will be across the whole athletic department, but I expect the football program to bear the brunt of it.

Honestly would not be shocked to see up to 10 years of scholarship lost. I've read this penalty will be severe enough that Penn St. may have rather just been giving the Death Penalty for a year.

 

[imac_21]

So this is the rumoured sanctions. It's pretty fucking heavy. Not the death penalty, but they'll be on life support for roughly ever (from a leak from CBS news)

1. Suspension of Football operations for 1 year.
2. No TV until 2015.
3. Bowl ban until 2015.
4. No scholarships for 2013.
5. All current players can transfer with no penalty.
6. NCAA Clearinghouse to expedite all transfers
7. All players transferring will not count against scholarship limit for receiving schools
8. Loss of 8 scholarships per year from 2014 to 2020.
9. In 2014 may drop to Div 1AA with no penalty and the right to return to Div 1A after 2020.
10. Wins and records back to 1998 will be vacated.
11. Ticket revenue offset to be given to scheduled opponents.

This is the rumour. It might as well be the death penalty if true.


[MEDIA=twitter]227222282349719552[/MEDIA]/photo/1/large

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

So this is the rumoured sanctions. It's pretty fucking heavy. Not the death penalty, but they'll be on life support for roughly ever (from a leak from CBS news)

1. Suspension of Football operations for 1 year.
2. No TV until 2015.
3. Bowl ban until 2015.
4. No scholarships for 2013.
5. All current players can transfer with no penalty.
6. NCAA Clearinghouse to expedite all transfers
7. All players transferring will not count against scholarship limit for receiving schools
8. Loss of 8 scholarships per year from 2014 to 2020.
9. In 2014 may drop to Div 1AA with no penalty and the right to return to Div 1A after 2020.
10. Wins and records back to 1998 will be vacated.
11. Ticket revenue offset to be given to scheduled opponents.

This is the rumour. It might as well be the death penalty if true.


[MEDIA=twitter]227222282349719552[/MEDIA]/photo/1/large

It's not this. The NCAA can't even enforce three of these. It is a hack trying to get twitter hits.

My guess, based on all I have been told:

5 year bowl ban
10-15 scholarships per year for 4-5 years
the 30 million dollar fine
10 years probation
internal investigation run by NCAA

 

[MHSL82]

So this is the rumoured sanctions. It's pretty fucking heavy. Not the death penalty, but they'll be on life support for roughly ever (from a leak from CBS news)

1. Suspension of Football operations for 1 year.
2. No TV until 2015.
3. Bowl ban until 2015.
4. No scholarships for 2013.
5. All current players can transfer with no penalty.
6. NCAA Clearinghouse to expedite all transfers
7. All players transferring will not count against scholarship limit for receiving schools
8. Loss of 8 scholarships per year from 2014 to 2020.
9. In 2014 may drop to Div 1AA with no penalty and the right to return to Div 1A after 2020.
10. Wins and records back to 1998 will be vacated.
11. Ticket revenue offset to be given to scheduled opponents.

This is the rumour. It might as well be the death penalty if true.


[MEDIA=twitter]227222282349719552[/MEDIA]/photo/1/large

It's not this. The NCAA can't even enforce three of these. It is a hack trying to get twitter hits.

My guess, based on all I have been told:

5 year bowl ban
10-15 scholarships per year for 4-5 years
the 30 million dollar fine
10 years probation
internal investigation run by NCAA

Now, we're just waiting for Penn State to appeal this, not show up or walk out early on their appeals hearing, and tell anyone and everyone that the NCAA commissioner is a tyrant power hungry guy who has no objectivity, no evidence, and is over-stepping his control while acting as judge, jury, and executioner. Because remember, if you're punished, it's not fair. Don't forget the defamation.

 

[NinerSickness]

So this is the rumoured sanctions. It's pretty fucking heavy. Not the death penalty, but they'll be on life support for roughly ever (from a leak from CBS news)

1. Suspension of Football operations for 1 year.
2. No TV until 2015.
3. Bowl ban until 2015.
4. No scholarships for 2013.
5. All current players can transfer with no penalty.
6. NCAA Clearinghouse to expedite all transfers
7. All players transferring will not count against scholarship limit for receiving schools
8. Loss of 8 scholarships per year from 2014 to 2020.
9. In 2014 may drop to Div 1AA with no penalty and the right to return to Div 1A after 2020.
10. Wins and records back to 1998 will be vacated.
11. Ticket revenue offset to be given to scheduled opponents.

This is the rumour. It might as well be the death penalty if true.


[MEDIA=twitter]227222282349719552[/MEDIA]/photo/1/large

Ok, maybe I spoke too soon. That's pretty severe if it's true.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Now, we're just waiting for Penn State to appeal this, not show up or walk out early on their appeals hearing, and tell anyone and everyone that the NCAA commissioner is a tyrant power hungry guy who has no objectivity, no evidence, and is over-stepping his control while acting as judge, jury, and executioner. Because remember, if you're punished, it's not fair. Don't forget the defamation.

Ha, I wouldn't put it past the people in charge at this school. Hell, Spanier is still employed as a tenured professor at PSU.

 

[huskers1217]

Collegefootballtalk.com says they will not appeal

 

[gobigred]

It's not this. The NCAA can't even enforce three of these. It is a hack trying to get twitter hits.

My guess, based on all I have been told:

5 year bowl ban
10-15 scholarships per year for 4-5 years
the 30 million dollar fine
10 years probation
internal investigation run by NCAA

Ouch. Goodbye Penn St football