Paxton and Walker seem close to being back

[seahawksfan234]

The injuries to Mariners pitchers have been extremely concerning. At this point you have to wonder if it is more than just a coincidence.

 

[SeattleCoug]

In Paxtons case... When you have a "minor" injury then sit out for awhile then start throwing again and injury comes back it is a really bad sign, a sign that there is something seriously wrong.

Yup, getting Hultzen flashbacks

 

[cezero]

I was against what NW was proposing about trading away young pitchers, but despite all of the promise, Z hasn't produced a single one in his tenure. Paxton and Hultzen likely out for the year, and who knows if they'll overcome the shoulder problems. Walker simply hasn't had enough starts to know if he's going to be a good one, or one with sure enough mechanics and anatomy, knock on wood.

I think you have to start looking at the M's training/pitching staff rather than just believing it's magic/bad luck that causes just about every promising young pitcher in the organization to develop significant injuries....Pineda, Erasmo Ramirez, Maurer, Pryon, Hultzen, Paxton, Walker, all with significant time on the DL already.

Injuries are a part of the sport, of course, but I think this merits some scrutiny. I doubt the front office cares at all, though.

 

[PolarVortex]

The injuries to Mariners pitchers have been extremely concerning. At this point you have to wonder if it is more than just a coincidence.

It isn't just the Mariners. If bad elbows were caused by a bacteria or virus, the CDC would quarantine major league baseball right now. The Tommy John procedure requirements seem to be happening at an epiddemic rate right now. I think modern training techniques for starting pitchers need to be re-evaluated and overhauled.

Young pitchers (seeemingly) represent such a huge asset to an organization's future success that no one wants to take any chances with them. It goes beyond just 'treating them with kid gloves' and has now enter a realm of paranoia.

 

[kcden]

Read this in a different forum:

The cause of Tommy John surgery is... Tommy John surgery. To be more specific, it's guys throwing 92+.

Biomechanic studies have proven that the upper limit of human arm tolerance is the forces put on the arm when a ball goes above 92 MPH. Ergo, every time you throw 92+, you are stressing the arm to close to falling apart. The weakest link is the UCL.

When I was growing up, only the very rare few pitchers threw 90+. And only the unnaturally gifted could do it for a career. Everyone today says, look at Nolan Ryan. Back then, everyone knew Nolan Ryan was a freak, no one with any sense would try to do what he did. Pitchers learned to throw with command and control, and knew they had to go 7,8,9 innings... and major league teams were looking for guys who could give them 35 starts.

Today, grade school and high school kids know that no scout is even going to come look at you if you don't go 90+ early. It's like the old joke we used to have about why Dominican players swung at everything - you can't get off the island by walking.

Everyone has to throw 90+ means everyone has to blow out their arm. But now you can reliably PATCH the arm, at least once, probably twice. Teams now are "budgeting" that a young guy is going to have TJ and take a season off. The most cynical viewpoint is that it's better if a kid has it early, get it out of the way so he get on with his career. There's even talk of a couple of kids being drafted in the first round this year who already need or just HAD TJ.

 

[cezero]

From what I've read, and gone though with my own shoulder, it's a combination of mechanics and natural anatomy...having just the right amount of space between bones, muscles, and tendons so they don't tear the shoulder up as badly when throwing hard, or throwing with crazy torque like with hard sliders and such.

Some guys just have the right shoulder configuration to where they can pitch for a long time without injury if they use proper mechanics. It's a gift.

Other guys can overcome some of their anatomical problems with PT (which can actually open up the area between bone and tendon), or with slight alterations to mechanics.

 

[mcnabb7542]

And Pryor is shut down with same thing Walker had. I go back to my original opinion from years ago, trade all freaking young pitchers because they all are fragile. Over-exaggeration I know, but just tired of waiting for something and getting nothing. Life of a Mariners fan I know.

I'm curious, has anyone done the whole, "well if they didn't draft this pitcher they could have had??" game?
I'd be curious to see what team they could've hand if they stayed away from these pitchers.....

 

[PolarVortex]

I'm curious, has anyone done the whole, "well if they didn't draft this pitcher they could have had??" game?
I'd be curious to see what team they could've hand if they stayed away from these pitchers.....

Instead of Danny Hultzen they could have had Anthony Rendon or George Springer or Trevor Bauer or Sonny Gray. Or they could had Jose Fernandez who got about 40 starts into his MLB career before he fell apart.

 

[NWinAZ]

If they didn't sign Josh Fields at the deadline (Jack's doing) they would have had the pick 2 picks before Angels took that Trout kid. M's said they had an eye on Trout, but not with the 2nd overall pick where they took Ackley. I would have rather they said they never heard of Trout...lol.

 

[mcnabb7542]

That's what I was afraid of.......

George Springer would've been really nice in the M's outfield....

 

[NWinAZ]

Nah. He would have hit .212 with 4 homers in half a season for us. Then we trade him for a pitcher that is never heard from again and Springer goes on to put up Bautista numbers for his new team. It's the Mariner Curse.

A guy I wouldn't mind getting who could be a poor mans Springer is Kris Davis. I would trade Franklin for him.

 

[seahawksfan234]

If they didn't sign Josh Fields at the deadline (Jack's doing) they would have had the pick 2 picks before Angels took that Trout kid. M's said they had an eye on Trout, but not with the 2nd overall pick where they took Ackley. I would have rather they said they never heard of Trout...lol.

I was completely unaware of that. First you mention Tulo in the other thread, now Trout. Hindsight 20/20...

 

[seahawksfan234]

Walker in 3 IP gave up 4 ER on 5 hits for the Rainiers today.

 

[NWinAZ]

And tomorrow we will read where his arm fell off while sleeping...but it will only be called a 'minor setback'.

 

[cezero]

If Z goes after Zamardsija, I'll be fine with it.

Despite all of the injuries, the M's are still near the top of the AL in a lot of pitching stats.

Any efforts put into acquiring more pitching need to be accompanied by three times the effort into addressing offensive concerns, which are obviously myriad.

 

[NWinAZ]

If you can't add hitting, then get the best rotation you can and go with it. It worked for the D-Backs with Johnson and Schilling years back.

 

[cezero]

If you can't add hitting, then get the best rotation you can and go with it. It worked for the D-Backs with Johnson and Schilling years back.

The D-Backs had a top 5 offense when they won the world series in 2001, and top 3 offense when they won their division in 2002.

The Mariners have the 2nd or 3rd worst offense in the league.

But yeah, since the M's can't get good hitters to come here, and Z can't trade for offense to save his life, the team is well and truly fucked.

The word "worked" does not apply here, especially if you're bringing up the D-Backs when they were successful with Schilling and Johnson and trying to connect it to the M's in any way.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Could care less about Walker's stats tonight. All that matters is he was healthy enough to make the start and not leave injured. Hopefully nothing pops up sore in the next 24 hours

 

[cezero]

Could care less about Walker's stats tonight. All that matters is he was healthy enough to make the start and not leave injured. Hopefully nothing pops up sore in the next 24 hours

Yep

 

[cezero]

And tomorrow we will read where his arm fell off while sleeping...but it will only be called a 'minor setback'.

Nothing like that yet, knock on wood.

He said he was disappointed in his start last night, but that he feels fine.