Patriots v Broncos 2015

[randymon]

62% success rate on passes isn't bad, but take a look at THESE odds:


"According to Football Outsiders, in fact, they (Seahawks) were the second-best power team in the league, converting 81 percent of power runs (described as third or fourth down and/or any goal-to-go situation with 2 yards or less to go) into first downs or touchdowns"

Touche! Mr. Walker.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Touche! Mr. Walker.

Ehhhh..... Since Denver wasn't featured in this year's Super Bowl, doesn't really matter much in the end.

Hopefully we can celebrate a shiny new Lombardi at the end of next season

 

[cdumler7]

I am one I have no problem with the decision to pass in that situation. In reality with 3 downs and only 1 timeout running on 2nd down there actually limits them a bit in they have to take the timeout and then actually end up taking a bit of a chance if they do decide to run on 3rd down that they are going to struggle to get a final play in. So the pass makes sense in how to manage the clock and give your team 3 chances at a touchdown. The issue at least to me is what play they actually decided to call. They picked the most dangerous play around the goal line of the quick slant where there are lots of bodies. Too many bad things can happen in that type of situation such as tipped ball at the LOS, bounces off the receivers hands, and so much more. Throw in Russell Wilson's weakest spot for passing is that of the quick slant as his height does limit his ability to zip it in there in that situation. So they picked to have possibly the best running quarterback in the NFL have to sit in the pocket and throw to his worst spot and hope for good things to happen. To me the best play call is for them to do the zone read option play with a pass built in. It gives them a lot more options that make it very difficult to defend and gets Russell Wilson the ability to run it in if the pass is not there. That to me is what makes the most sense in that situation. Hindsight obviously is 20/20 but I think just about everybody the second the play was done knew that was about the worst decision they could have made.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I was really surprised that Belichick didn't take a timeout after Lynch ran for about a yard on first down. Seems to me that the hoody had a much better understanding of clock management than I did.

 

[cdumler7]

I was really surprised that Belichick didn't take a timeout after Lynch ran for about a yard on first down. Seems to me that the hoody had a much better understanding of clock management than I did.

He took a major chance with that decision. I would have called a time out as well but he trusted his defense to make a play and that they did. Still a pretty darn risky decision as that would have left the offense with say 45 seconds to go score a field goal if the Seahawks had scored. If they don't score you can still take a couple of knees and the game is over so honestly I don't get why he didn't take a time out. I think the two coaches played a game of chicken that the other would call a time out and when neither did it lead to SEattle then having to rethink their game plan.

 

[TDs3nOut]

He took a major chance with that decision. I would have called a time out as well but he trusted his defense to make a play and that they did. Still a pretty darn risky decision as that would have left the offense with say 45 seconds to go score a field goal if the Seahawks had scored. If they don't score you can still take a couple of knees and the game is over so honestly I don't get why he didn't take a time out. I think the two coaches played a game of chicken that the other would call a time out and when neither did it lead to SEattle then having to rethink their game plan.

I think that by not taking the timeout there BB sort of baited PC into throwing the ball. Have to think that PC was expecting the timeout, during which I imagine he would have sent the big Samoan FB out to pave a hole for Lynch. Instead, I think that by allowing the clock to run down to only about 45 seconds, PC was reluctant to run the ball on second down.

 

[cdumler7]

I think that by not taking the timeout there BB sort of baited PC into throwing the ball. Have to think that PC was expecting the timeout, during which I imagine he would have sent the big Samoan FB out to pave a hole for Lynch. Instead, I think that by allowing the clock to run down to only about 45 seconds, PC was reluctant to run the ball on second down.

Which worked out great for him. I agree that I think if New England takes a time out there it gives Seattle probably a better option to run on 2nd down rather than think to pass then run the next two downs. It was still taking a chance either way. If the Pats lose that game then people would question such a call by BB that would have given his offense a chance to drive the field. The fact that they won he looks like a genius.

 

[randymon]

I can understand that call because it has worked well for not just Seattle but many teams including Broncos this past season. It just didn`t pan out and for more reasons than just Butler`s great play. Other things had to happen for that play to end up in his hands, But,I included, thought there was NO WAY NE was going to stop Lynch even if it took 1 extra down. Even though the stats been out there that Lynch was 1-5 scoring in that situation, it wasn`t the SB and with seconds left on clock. I don`t think 15 guys would have kept him out of the end zone. Oh well, tired of seeing replays after replays of NE/Seattle and can`t wait for the talk,etc to turn to combine.draft and other news not related to SB. Time to move on folks ( espn,nfl network and just about every other network out there) Far as I`am concerned,once they have their parade, lets change the subject!!! Iknow, not much happen anyway..yet

 

[notorious98]

I tried to explain this to my fiance but she was not having it. In her world men appreciate Katy Perry more for her music and not for her looks.

And, by looks, you mean tits. I was sorely disappointed in the halftime show because her puppies were way too constrained.

 

[notorious98]

I can understand that call because it has worked well for not just Seattle but many teams including Broncos this past season. It just didn`t pan out and for more reasons than just Butler`s great play. Other things had to happen for that play to end up in his hands, But,I included, thought there was NO WAY NE was going to stop Lynch even if it took 1 extra down. Even though the stats been out there that Lynch was 1-5 scoring in that situation, it wasn`t the SB and with seconds left on clock. I don`t think 15 guys would have kept him out of the end zone. Oh well, tired of seeing replays after replays of NE/Seattle and can`t wait for the talk,etc to turn to combine.draft and other news not related to SB. Time to move on folks ( espn,nfl network and just about every other network out there) Far as I`am concerned,once they have their parade, lets change the subject!!! Iknow, not much happen anyway..yet

If you consider 1 TD and 1 sack to mean "worked well", then I suppose it worked well. Seattle had two pass attempts from the 1 yard line this year. If you want to go out to the 2 yard line, Seattle threw 2 more passes and they were both incomplete. From 3 yards out Wilson threw 3 more times, went 2 of 3 with 1 TD. So, from within the 3 yard line, Wilson was 3 of 6 with 2 TDs.

On the flip side, Lynch had 5 carries from the 1 and scored 1 TD. If you go out to the 2 yard line, Lynch added 1 more carry and 1 more TD. If you go out to the 3 yard line, Lynch had 5 more carries and 3 more TDs. So, from within the 3 yard line, Lynch had 11 carries for 6 TDs. Oh, and that doesn't include Wilson's rushing TD from the 1 this year as well. Something that Wilson wouldn't have been able to do when tasked with throwing a quick slant route into the end zone.

It was a terrible play call. First, it put Wilson in a position that isn't his best, throwing from the pocket. Second, there wasn't even an attempt to get Lynch the ball in that situation. Third, it completely negated the threat of Wilson's legs. If you wanted to tell me that Seattle was going to throw the ball, I would have been alright with it had he rolled out. That way he has the option of throwing it away if the pass wasn't there to be made. He's not throwing it into the teeth of the defense. It also gives him the option of running it in if the opportunity is there. Throwing a slant route? Absolutely awful. Even Wilson's 1 yard TD throw this year was a play fake throw to the back corner of the end zone. And his 3 yard TD pass was a swing pass to Turbin. Two plays with low INT chances.

 

[cdumler7]

If you consider 1 TD and 1 sack to mean "worked well", then I suppose it worked well. Seattle had two pass attempts from the 1 yard line this year. If you want to go out to the 2 yard line, Seattle threw 2 more passes and they were both incomplete. From 3 yards out Wilson threw 3 more times, went 2 of 3 with 1 TD. So, from within the 3 yard line, Wilson was 3 of 6 with 2 TDs.

On the flip side, Lynch had 5 carries from the 1 and scored 1 TD. If you go out to the 2 yard line, Lynch added 1 more carry and 1 more TD. If you go out to the 3 yard line, Lynch had 5 more carries and 3 more TDs. So, from within the 3 yard line, Lynch had 11 carries for 6 TDs. Oh, and that doesn't include Wilson's rushing TD from the 1 this year as well. Something that Wilson wouldn't have been able to do when tasked with throwing a quick slant route into the end zone.

It was a terrible play call. First, it put Wilson in a position that isn't his best, throwing from the pocket. Second, there wasn't even an attempt to get Lynch the ball in that situation. Third, it completely negated the threat of Wilson's legs. If you wanted to tell me that Seattle was going to throw the ball, I would have been alright with it had he rolled out. That way he has the option of throwing it away if the pass wasn't there to be made. He's not throwing it into the teeth of the defense. It also gives him the option of running it in if the opportunity is there. Throwing a slant route? Absolutely awful. Even Wilson's 1 yard TD throw this year was a play fake throw to the back corner of the end zone. And his 3 yard TD pass was a swing pass to Turbin. Two plays with low INT chances.

Have to agree with this...Essentially the Seahawks eliminated their two best threats on offense in Lynch and Wilson's ability to run and make plays on the run. They tried to turn him into Peyton Manning on that play and that is just not Wilson. That doesn't mean he is a bad quarterback just that him throwing timing routes from the pocket especially the quick slant is like the Broncos telling Manning to do a designed quarterback run play. You just don't in the biggest situation of the entire season decide to all of a sudden go to your greatest weakness on offense to make the play. If they beat you when you are using your greatest strength then so be it but deciding to play right into their hands is just asking for trouble and Seattle got what they deserved on that play.

 

[Southieinnc]

If you consider 1 TD and 1 sack to mean "worked well", then I suppose it worked well. Seattle had two pass attempts from the 1 yard line this year. If you want to go out to the 2 yard line, Seattle threw 2 more passes and they were both incomplete. From 3 yards out Wilson threw 3 more times, went 2 of 3 with 1 TD. So, from within the 3 yard line, Wilson was 3 of 6 with 2 TDs.

On the flip side, Lynch had 5 carries from the 1 and scored 1 TD. If you go out to the 2 yard line, Lynch added 1 more carry and 1 more TD. If you go out to the 3 yard line, Lynch had 5 more carries and 3 more TDs. So, from within the 3 yard line, Lynch had 11 carries for 6 TDs. Oh, and that doesn't include Wilson's rushing TD from the 1 this year as well. Something that Wilson wouldn't have been able to do when tasked with throwing a quick slant route into the end zone.

It was a terrible play call. First, it put Wilson in a position that isn't his best, throwing from the pocket. Second, there wasn't even an attempt to get Lynch the ball in that situation. Third, it completely negated the threat of Wilson's legs. If you wanted to tell me that Seattle was going to throw the ball, I would have been alright with it had he rolled out. That way he has the option of throwing it away if the pass wasn't there to be made. He's not throwing it into the teeth of the defense. It also gives him the option of running it in if the opportunity is there. Throwing a slant route? Absolutely awful. Even Wilson's 1 yard TD throw this year was a play fake throw to the back corner of the end zone. And his 3 yard TD pass was a swing pass to Turbin. Two plays with low INT chances.

I pointed out previously that at the SB, Lynch was most affective when the Pats were not in there 3d and short defense. Most of his yards were on 1st and 2nd down. In 3rd and short, the Patriots were able to usually stop him. In the goal-line defense, the chances were good NE would have stopped him.....

 

[DownSetHutch]

I pointed out previously that at the SB, Lynch was most affective when the Pats were not in there 3d and short defense. Most of his yards were on 1st and 2nd down. In 3rd and short, the Patriots were able to usually stop him. In the goal-line defense, the chances were good NE would have stopped him.....

That's interesting, because I thought that the Patriots were mediocre to below average on 3rd downs and goal line situations.

 

[Southieinnc]

That's interesting, because I thought that the Patriots were mediocre to below average on 3rd downs and goal line situations.

Not rating them. I'm saying that during the SB, Lynch was more effective on 1st and 2nd down. 3rd and short was less effective.....

 

[cdumler7]

Not rating them. I'm saying that during the SB, Lynch was more effective on 1st and 2nd down. 3rd and short was less effective.....

I still think that one of the best power backs if not the best power back in the NFL on 3 tries could have gotten into the end zone. I have no doubt that the Patriots could have stopped him maybe once or twice but three straight times is pretty difficult even for the best of defenses. And even if they did at least if I was a Seahawks fan I feel better that they put the ball in my best offensive weapons hands in that situation and win or lose with him getting the ball.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Not rating them. I'm saying that during the SB, Lynch was more effective on 1st and 2nd down. 3rd and short was less effective.....

You can say that about nearly any defense. It means nothing when attempting to equate this to whether or not Lynch would have been able to run in the TD.

 

[Southieinnc]

I still think that one of the best power backs if not the best power back in the NFL on 3 tries could have gotten into the end zone. I have no doubt that the Patriots could have stopped him maybe once or twice but three straight times is pretty difficult even for the best of defenses. And even if they did at least if I was a Seahawks fan I feel better that they put the ball in my best offensive weapons hands in that situation and win or lose with him getting the ball.

I cannot disagree with making "fans feel better" I'm thinking an incompletion would have allowed the same thing - and time for substitutions and a huddle. It was not a wrong call if not for the interception. Patriots saw that play in tapes, practiced for it, and made the big play to in.

All SB losses are unfortunate. Both teams come in the game as champions - one leaves as a loser.
Denver was a champion last year. Nobody remembers that part.....

 

[cdumler7]

I agree Southieinnc. I'm not against them passing in that situation one bit. I think it was about the worst possible pass call though of all the options they had. They have probably the best running quarterback in the entire NFL on the team and they decide to keep him in the pocket? I mean he had been ripping off huge gains to the outside for a good part of the game so getting him on the move gives them so many more options.

 

[Southieinnc]

I agree Southieinnc. I'm not against them passing in that situation one bit. I think it was about the worst possible pass call though of all the options they had. They have probably the best running quarterback in the entire NFL on the team and they decide to keep him in the pocket? I mean he had been ripping off huge gains to the outside for a good part of the game so getting him on the move gives them so many more options.

I don't think Russell running would have worked. With more field and the defense backing up? Yes. With goal-line defense in, they are watching him every step and nobody is backing up. Russell runs or rolls, it could have been a big loss.
The Patriots only hope of stopping Seattle was to play against the run and keep an eye on Russell, while taking their chances with the great secondary playing in tight quarters. Seattle made the choice and Patriots made the big play.

 

[cdumler7]

I don't think Russell running would have worked. With more field and the defense backing up? Yes. With goal-line defense in, they are watching him every step and nobody is backing up. Russell runs or rolls, it could have been a big loss.
The Patriots only hope of stopping Seattle was to play against the run and keep an eye on Russell, while taking their chances with the great secondary playing in tight quarters. Seattle made the choice and Patriots made the big play.

I guess agree to disagree. I think if they did the zone read option with a pass built in that gives them 3 options of Lynch up the middle, Wilson to the outside, or Wilson rolling out and passing. That to me is pretty difficult to defend and even if he does get sacked they have the timeout that allows them to still substitute if need be and figure out where to go from there. Yes it forces them more into a passing situation but I think the risk is worth it in a sack is still better than the interception.