Patrick Willis' pace

[NinerSickness]

Given his pace, I don't think Willis is in the discussion.

I don't see how he possibly could have played any better than he has. He was the best LB in the league his first season.

 

[wartyOne]

I don't see how he possibly could have played any better than he has. He was the best LB in the league his first season.

LT, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis.

Given his current pace (lack of sacks/TO's on the resume), I don't see him being in the best ever discussion. Derek Smith racked up a shit ton of tackles. Nobody is going to confuse him with best player ever.

 

[threelittleturds]

Oh man... the Woodson, Sanders, Green debate. I see those guys as 1a, 1b, 1c and I'll flip and flop them any way I choose depending on my mood.

I often think that Sanders was a lot like Moss and Woodson was more like Rice. Sanders could have been the hands down GOAT if he had Rod's heart and desire, just like Moss could have been the GOAT if he had Jerry's heart and desire.

 

[NinerSickness]

I think Deion had plenty of heart & desire. His inability to tackle wasn't due to a lack of heart; it was due to a lack of core strength.

I was always the same way. I was always really, really fast. Nobody could touch me playing flag football. I tried tackle football one year & got my ass kicked like a guy who pissed off Joe Pesci in one of his movies. Just wasn't tough enough. Deion was so good in coverage that he made up for his inability to tackle though. He was DPOY in '94 after all.

 

[wartyOne]

Oh man... the Woodson, Sanders, Green debate. I see those guys as 1a, 1b, 1c and I'll flip and flop them any way I choose depending on my mood.

I often think that Sanders was a lot like Moss and Woodson was more like Rice. Sanders could have been the hands down GOAT if he had Rod's heart and desire, just like Moss could have been the GOAT if he had Jerry's heart and desire.

If he had his heart and desire, he still wouldn't have had his effort.

I hope he's already moved back to Foxboro. Bitch.

 

[wartyOne]

I think Deion had plenty of heart & desire. His inability to tackle wasn't due to a lack of heart; it was due to a lack of core strength.

I was always the same way. I was always really, really fast. Nobody could touch me playing flag football. I tried tackle football one year & got my ass kicked like a guy who pissed off Joe Pesci in one of his movies. Just wasn't tough enough. Deion was so good in coverage that he made up for his inability to tackle though. He was DPOY in '94 after all.

That's because he wasn't getting abused by Rice in two games.

 

[threelittleturds]

If he had his heart and desire, he still wouldn't have had his effort.

I hope he's already moved back to Foxboro. Bitch.

LOL.

 

[Robotech]

Oh man... the Woodson, Sanders, Green debate. I see those guys as 1a, 1b, 1c and I'll flip and flop them any way I choose depending on my mood.

I often think that Sanders was a lot like Moss and Woodson was more like Rice. Sanders could have been the hands down GOAT if he had Rod's heart and desire, just like Moss could have been the GOAT if he had Jerry's heart and desire.

I think Champ Bailey's up there, too.

 

[Arete Tzu]

LT, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis.

Given his current pace (lack of sacks/TO's on the resume), I don't see him being in the best ever discussion. Derek Smith racked up a shit ton of tackles. Nobody is going to confuse him with best player ever.

You might want to recheck that. We've already compared his sacks and turnovers to guys like Ray Lewis, and Sing. He is either equally on pace or surpassing them. He won't get the sacks of LT, but LT played a different potion. No MLB gets the sacks of outside linebackers.

 

[clyde_carbon]

LT, Butkus, Singletary, Lewis.

Given his current pace (lack of sacks/TO's on the resume), I don't see him being in the best ever discussion. Derek Smith racked up a shit ton of tackles. Nobody is going to confuse him with best player ever.

In their first 6 seasons in the league, Willis has more sacks/TFLs and forced fumbles than Lewis did.

 

[Robotech]

I think Deion had plenty of heart & desire. His inability to tackle wasn't due to a lack of heart; it was due to a lack of core strength.

I was always the same way. I was always really, really fast. Nobody could touch me playing flag football. I tried tackle football one year & got my ass kicked like a guy who pissed off Joe Pesci in one of his movies. Just wasn't tough enough. Deion was so good in coverage that he made up for his inability to tackle though. He was DPOY in '94 after all.

I don't know about that. Deion must have had tremendous core strength in order to have the change of direction ability that he had.

Deion was obviously not a crushing tackler, but when was his tackling ever a factor? I don't remember any offense systematically exploiting Deion's tackling. Obviously, it's the corners who can't cover that will be systematically exploited, as we saw with Cully on Sunday.

 

[KingFlea]

The best player of all time is Jim Brown, IMO. Never seen him play, obviously, but his stats are absolutely ridiculous.

9 time pro bowler, 8 time first all pro, superbowl champ, 3 time nfl mvp, 8 time rushing champion.

Rice #2, LT #3, and Reggie White #4.

Jim Brown won a Superbowl? .....

 

[CalamityX11]

He'll need a Ring or two that's for sure.... he'll never win NFL MVP unless it was a riduculous season but maybe a defensive player of the year would help him....

 

[TobyTyler]

6 years in the league:

6x pro bowler
6x all pro
3x NFL Alumni LB of the year
1x NFC champ
AP defensive rookie of the year

What's he on pace for? Best ILB of all time? Top-5? Top-10?

Try to remove all biases.

He's great but I'm not sure if he is even the best ILB on his own team.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

6 all-pros in first six seasons is unprecedented at any position, right? Lists of all-pro players aren't very good on the web, but I don't think anyone else has done that. I don't even consider number of Super Bowls, Lott didn't do that on his own. Willis certainly on pace to be considered with the greats like Sing and Lewis, and could surpass them.

 

[TobyTyler]

6 all-pros in first six seasons is unprecedented at any position, right? Lists of all-pro players aren't very good on the web, but I don't think anyone else has done that. I don't even consider number of Super Bowls, Lott didn't do that on his own. Willis certainly on pace to be considered with the greats like Sing and Lewis, and could surpass them.

He's already better than Singletary.

 

[BINGO]

He needs to get NFL player of the year once. I'm not going to be content with his accomplishments until I see that.

 

[mufasa76]

Deion was the best CB ever, IMO. It didn't really matter that he wasn't a great tackler, but I think that criticism of him is blown way out of proportion. Do you ever remember teams taking advantage of his tackling? I remember teams sometimes ran sweeps to his side, but that wasn't very successful.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rice got the better of Deion statistically, but I do remember watching games against the Falcons feeling frustrated that this Sanders guy keeps knocking down balls intended for Rice. If anyone did a good job against Rice, it was Deion.

and might i add that Rice said he was relieved Neon joined the 9ers cos he was a torn in his side everytime we played ATL...
I will put Deion as the best and 2nd best will be Green at CB....

 

[mufasa76]

Green was the only CB that could run with Moss when Moss was Moss...I bet Deion would have been able to cover Moss too...

shoot Pee Willie thread darn...

 

[Robotech]

and might i add that Rice said he was relieved Neon joined the 9ers cos he was a torn in his side everytime we played ATL...
I will put Deion as the best and 2nd best will be Green at CB....

Yeah, and I haven't seen the statistics between them, but I think it's silly to argue that Deion wasn't that great because Rice still had good games against him. Rice was the best WR ever, so of course he's gonna get his. Also, it's just the nature of the game that receivers have the advantage over defensive backs. In baseball, it would be silly to say that a great hitter isn't great because he only batted .300 against the greatest pitcher of all time.