Patrick Willis' pace

[clyde_carbon]

6 years in the league:

6x pro bowler
6x all pro
3x NFL Alumni LB of the year
1x NFC champ
AP defensive rookie of the year

What's he on pace for? Best ILB of all time? Top-5? Top-10?

Try to remove all biases.

 

[NinerSickness]

Best ILB of all time. At least he's on pace for it. There was a debate as to whether Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher was better back in the day; there's no debate when it comes to the VP.

It's pretty close though.

Best LB of all time & maybe the best player of all time (up there wih Rice, Lott, Barry & Montana) is LT. No contest IMO.

 

[clyde_carbon]

The best player of all time is Jim Brown, IMO. Never seen him play, obviously, but his stats are absolutely ridiculous.

9 time pro bowler, 8 time first all pro, superbowl champ, 3 time nfl mvp, 8 time rushing champion.

Rice #2, LT #3, and Reggie White #4.

 

[NinerSickness]

The best player of all time is Jim Brown, IMO. Never seen him play, obviously, but his stats are absolutely ridiculous.

9 time pro bowler, 8 time first all pro, superbowl champ, 3 time nfl mvp, 8 time rushing champion.

Rice #2, LT #3, and Reggie White #4.

Yeah, it's hard to make a case against Jim Brown. Barry Sanders' father allways said Jim Brown was the best. I think Barry was though...

I always thought Bruce Smith was a better overall DE than Reggie White or at least as good. He played DE in a 3-4 & got all those sacks. Both were great of course.

And then there's Deacon Jones.

Larry Allen deserves mention IMO. Outside of possibly Tony Boseli, I've never seena more dominant OL than Larry.

Ok, back to the VP of Carnage. Best ILB of all time if he plays this well long enough.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Deion Sanders is in the conversation as well, no?

 

[wartyOne]

I don't think Brown is #1. He played in an era where RB's were as big as DT's. Rice at least played in the modern era.

 

[wartyOne]

Deion Sanders is in the conversation as well, no?

Deion was the best.

At being unable to tackle.

He's not in the conversation at all. He was Rice's bitch.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I don't think Brown is #1. He played in an era where RB's were as big as DT's. Rice at least played in the modern era.

Brown did everything on his own, Rice had Montana/Young throwing to him. He did make them better, obviously, but having two HOF QBs back to back also helped him out a lot.

Best NFL athlete of all time? Bo Jackson.

 

[NinerSickness]

Deion Sanders is in the conversation as well, no?

Absolutely. However, Rice used to make him look silly, so he's not up there in Rice's company.

It's hard to give Deacon Jones a fair shake 'cause they didn't record sacks back then. Just like it's hard to ocmpare Jim Brown & Barry Sanders.

 

[wartyOne]

Brown did everything on his own, Rice had Montana/Young throwing to him. He did make them better, obviously, but having two HOF QBs back to back also helped him out a lot.

Best NFL athlete of all time? Bo Jackson.

Won't argue the emboldened.

And I know Brown was a beast in his time period. But that was a VERY limited time period.

Given that, can't argue between the eras. Too much difference. I still give Rice the nod here.

 

[wartyOne]

Absolutely. However, Rice used to make him look silly, so he's not up there in Rice's company.

It's hard to give Deacon Jones a fair shake 'cause they didn't record sacks back then. Just like it's hard to ocmpare Jim Brown & Barry Sanders.

Technically, Deacon wouldn't have been nearly as effective under the current rules.

But they changed the rules because he was so dominant under the rules he was allowed to play with.

 

[NinerSickness]

Deion was the best.

At being unable to tackle.

He's not in the conversation at all. He was Rice's bitch.

Agree 100%, but he was still the best CB to ever play. 2nd best has to be Champ Bailey. 3rd? I don't know. Rod or Charles Woodson probably.

 

[wartyOne]

Agree 100%, but he was still the best CB to ever play. 2nd best has to be Champ Bailey. 3rd? I don't know. Rod or Charles Woodson probably.

Darrell Green trumps all listed.

Can't go too far back because the rules in the 70's allowed CB's to figuratively (like what I did there?) murder WR's in their routes.

 

[Robotech]

Deion was the best.

At being unable to tackle.

He's not in the conversation at all. He was Rice's bitch.

Deion was the best CB ever, IMO. It didn't really matter that he wasn't a great tackler, but I think that criticism of him is blown way out of proportion. Do you ever remember teams taking advantage of his tackling? I remember teams sometimes ran sweeps to his side, but that wasn't very successful.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rice got the better of Deion statistically, but I do remember watching games against the Falcons feeling frustrated that this Sanders guy keeps knocking down balls intended for Rice. If anyone did a good job against Rice, it was Deion.

 

[-AC-]

Willis doesn't have enough sacks or interceptions to be considered in the top 5 (atleast not yet, and I'm not sure I see that changing)...

 

[NinerSickness]

I Forgot about Darrell Green.

I think Rod Woodson could've been the best CB of all time had he not torn his ACL. The dude did everything and he was the best at all of it. He lost a step when he got hurt though.

Still was a great FS though.

 

[-AC-]

Darrel Green
Rod Woodson
Deion Sanders

In that order...

 

[wartyOne]

Darrel Green
Rod Woodson
Deion Sanders

In that order...

Eh. Probably three or four more before Sanders. All hype.

Dude was fast. Best returner, EVER. Best CB? No. Best player? Not close.

 

[threelittleturds]

Willis is on pace to be one of the GOATS, but I think he needs to beat Ronnie's resume as the 49ers GOAT defensive player before Patrick can be considered an NFL GOAT at his position.

Ronnie Lott was a 10x Pro Bowler at 3 Positions, an 8x AllPro(first team), 4 time Super Bowl Champ, Team of the 80s, Team of the 90s, 75th Anniversary Team.

Willis has until 2019 to win a Super Bowl or two, or three, or four in order to be considered for the 100th Anniversary Team... just to match Ronnie's 75th team selection.

 

[wartyOne]

Given his pace, I don't think Willis is in the discussion.