Passing game: what is the biggest weakness?

[MW49ers5]

Obviously he wouldn't be as good, but I think he would be very ordinary in our offense. That might be a statement of the obvious, but I don't necessarily think so. Gronkowski is a tremendous fit for the system he is in. Tough to say how he'd look outside of it.

He might look statistically ordinary (but then he is likely to look statistically ordinary for the remainder of his career after this season), but he is still the same TE. You alluded to the system but it depends just as much if not more on how well the player takes advantage of the opportunities when they are handed to them.

Obviously, Gronkowski has taken full advantage of his opportunities and I would expect him to do the same in any offense.

Our Receivers (with the exception of Morgan & Williams) consistently leave production and points on the field by not taking advantage of the opportunities they have been given.

 

[CalamityX11]

Not taking anything away from Gronk, he's perhaps one of the best recieving TEs in the league, not a complete TE IMO but the NE offense over the years has always been geared towards the TEs...

So nothing new there other than Gronk individual skillset allowed him to blow up this year. Shockey blew up then whither away, lets see if Gronk can continue this trend over a few more seasons.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

He might look statistically ordinary (but then he is likely to look statistically ordinary for the remainder of his career after this season), but he is still the same TE. You alluded to the system but it depends just as much if not more on how well the player takes advantage of the opportunities when they are handed to them.

Obviously, Gronkowski has taken full advantage of his opportunities and I would expect him to do the same in any offense.

Our Receivers (with the exception of Morgan & Williams) consistently leave production and points on the field by not taking advantage of the opportunities they have been given.

I don't disagree re: our receivers - though I would absolutely add Morgan to the list of players who leave production and points on the field. Re: Gronkowski, he would be the same player, but I don't believe he is a player who would be great in every system. Again, that's based on limited observation, and it may be completely wrong, but that's my sense.

Re: looking statistically ordinary, I'm not sure that it makes a major difference. Sure, he's physically the same guy. Darrell Jackson was physically the same guy when he left Holmgren's offense, albeit a year older. He fell off the map when he left that system, though. There are dozens of examples of guys who look great in a particular system but have very little impact when they leave that system. If Gronkowski was here and Smith wasn't willing to throw the ball to him because he wasn't open enough, or didn't have the timing to hit him on a crossing route, he might not be anything special. Maybe that just makes him "statistically ordinary," but not catching passes is not catching passes, whether it's his fault, the QB's, or the offense's.

Finally, it's highly unlikely that Gronkowski replicates this season anytime in the immediate future, if ever. That said, an awful lot of people thought his rookie year was a fluke in terms of TD production and didn't think he'd produce similar numbers (much less better) this season. As long as he's one of Brady's top two targets, and primary red zone threat, he's going to have a chance to put up crazy TD numbers.

 

[MW49ers5]

I don't disagree re: our receivers - though I would absolutely add Morgan to the list of players who leave production and points on the field. Re: Gronkowski, he would be the same player, but I don't believe he is a player who would be great in every system. Again, that's based on limited observation, and it may be completely wrong, but that's my sense.

Re: looking statistically ordinary, I'm not sure that it makes a major difference. Sure, he's physically the same guy. Darrell Jackson was physically the same guy when he left Holmgren's offense, albeit a year older. He fell off the map when he left that system, though. There are dozens of examples of guys who look great in a particular system but have very little impact when they leave that system. If Gronkowski was here and Smith wasn't willing to throw the ball to him because he wasn't open enough, or didn't have the timing to hit him on a crossing route, he might not beanything special. Maybe that just makes him "statistically ordinary," but not catching passes is not catching passes, whether it's his fault, the QB's, or the offense's.

Finally, it's highly unlikely that Gronkowski replicates this season anytime in the immediate future, if ever. That said, an awful lot of people thought his rookie year was a fluke in terms of TD production and didn't think he'd produce similar numbers (much less better) this season. As long as he's one of Brady's top two targets, and primary red zone threat, he's going to have a chance to put up crazy TD numbers.

My comments about Morgan & Williams are specific to this year - thus the reason for their omission - sorry for the confusion.

As for your comments on Gronkowski, honestly, you could not have mis-understood my point more - So, we'll just leave it at that.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

My comments about Morgan & Williams are specific to this year - thus the reason for their omission - sorry for the confusion.

As for your comments on Gronkowski, honestly, you could not have mis-understood my point more - So, we'll just leave it at that.

Fine by me.

 

[MW49ers5]

From my observations our biggest weakness is still Alex.

1: QB
2: Receivers/O'line
3: Creative Management

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Ill throw my two cents in.

1. QB
2. O-line
3. Play calling
4. WR's

 

[Crimsoncrew]

'09 were excellent stats, and is exactly where his receiving reputation took a big leap. so what happened since then?

'10 isn't bad for an average TE, but is that how he's viewed...as average? in fantasy leagues last year, he was probably taken top 5?

'11 isn't so bad either.....for an average TE, but again, is that how he's viewed....as average? he probably wasn't taken top 5, but certainly as the #1 TE for somebody.

lets leave Gronkowski out of this, what kind of stats does Jimmy Graham have? look at Gates considering the few games he's played? i know stats aren't all that, but if Davis was such a receiving weapon, no way Harbaugh purposely keeps him down. its similar to having Gore and not giving him much rushes.

anyways, gotta get off this now before i'm a Vernon Davis hater.

Making my way through some of these posts. Sorry if I repeat what others have said.

Deep, the part in bold above is sheer lunacy, especially if we're focusing specifically on stats. Davis was second in the league in yards and fifth in TDs at the TE position. If Davis' performance last year was average, who was great? What was good/above average? Davis was taken top-5 in most fantasy leagues because he was the third-highest scoring fantasy TE in the league last year.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I'd say of the four units mentioned, O-line being inconsistent has hurt us more this year. While we're not airing it out, int's aren't being thrown. If Alex Smith was a turnover machine again this year, I'd definitely vote QB. His inconsistency has resulted in key incompletions, but at least he's keeping us alive (for the most part).

The receivers have been wildly inconsistent. Part of that could be a function of the other units' effect on timing. Part of it could be the limited number of passes thrown until recently. But they still need to catch a ball when it hits them right in their hands. On a whole, I'd say Alex isn't making it very easy for these guys with late (and wobbly) inaccurate passes. Even with some huge plays left on the field with drops, I'd also say the receivers haven't cost us as much as the others. The more we pass though the more this could change.

Playcalling wasn't good last week. Overall it has been night and day better than previous years. It's limited right now to the QB and O-Line. Play-calling can't catch your passes for you. This should be a strength for this team into the future.

 

[LONGBALL]

the Oline protection plan

 

[Crimsoncrew]

On Sando's blog:

Also: Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. tells Insider subscribers Davis should be a top-five tight end, but his production has lagged.

Can anyone post the article? Could be pertinent to the conversation we've been having here.

Ah, I note the link in the text did not transfer. Here's the main page of Sando's blog:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

I haven't seen a ton of Gronkowski, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think he would struggle without Brady. My sense from the little that I've seen is that he struggles to get really open, but benefits from his size and Brady's pinpoint accuracy. Now, Gronkowski has shown tremendous hands, concentration, and power after the catch, but I don't think Smith throws to him in a lot of the situations Brady does.

Re: Davis, I don't know what's up this year. He had really taken strides in terms of catching the ball over the past two years - especially last year when he showed real signs of becoming a complete TE - after struggling early on, but this year he's back to dropping easy balls. It just seems like the team can't catch the ball at all sometimes.

At least he doesn't sruggle to catch the ball like Davis does.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

LOL!!! I will give you credit for one thing Crimsoncrew, you do have a knack dressing up the obvious and making it sound intelligent. Although I think Gronk might do very well in our offense with as tall as he is and as high as Smith likes to throw his passes - just a thought.

Ouch! That was harsh...........but pretty damn funny!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Ouch! That was harsh...........but pretty damn funny!

Say what you will about MW, he's always excelled at insulting people.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Say what you will about MW, he's always excelled at insulting people.

One hell of a rep whore might i add :bj:

 

[MW49ers5]

Say what you will about MW, he's always excelled at insulting people.

So sorry, Crimson, but unless you are including my happy, peppy little exchange with Imac, then you are the only person (singular) on this board with whom I have traded insults. Furthermore, I am pretty damn certain I can defend what you perceive to be insults as being the truth.

And finally, you pointing an accusing finger at anyone other than yourself for slinging insults is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[MW49ers5]

One hell of a rep whore might i add :bj:

LOL!! What the hell is a rep-whore and is it a good thing???

 

[Crimsoncrew]

So sorry, Crimson, but unless you are including my happy, peppy little exchange with Imac, then you are the only person (singular) on this board with whom I have traded insults. Furthermore, I am pretty damn certain I can defend what you perceive to be insults as being the truth.

And finally, you pointing an accusing finger at anyone other than yourself for slinging insults is the height of hypocrisy.

Oh, I dish it out when it comes my way, or when someone is clearly being an idiot. It's not my natural fallback, though. First I try to resort to reasonable discussion and argument. Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 that's impossible with you.

But' we've been moderately civil for the past week or so and I'd just as soon keep it that way, so we don't need to go down this road again.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

LOL!! What the hell is a rep-whore and is it a good thing???

You give out plenty of Reps lol and yes its a very good thing lol

 

[MW49ers5]

Oh, I dish it out when it comes my way, or when someone is clearly being an idiot. It's not my natural fallback, though. First I try to resort to reasonable discussion and argument. Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 that's impossible with you.

But' we've been moderately civil for the past week or so and I'd just as soon keep it that way, so we don't need to go down this road again.

You're right, it is not your natural fallback because, at least as far as my entire experience with you is concerned, it is your natural state. Trying to disguise your insults, your exaggerations and prevarications with fluff changes neither the content nor the intent.

So, if you want civil exchanges - Done! Most posters on this board are unaware of the BS you spew because of the way you spew it; I, however, am acutely aware of every word of it and I will always call you on it; however, in the future, I will be more civil about it when I do.

Fair?