Passing game: what is the biggest weakness?

[Crimsoncrew]

Generally I think QB is probably the biggest issue. However, in the last couple weeks, I think the OL and receivers have been the bigger problem. Smith is what he is. But our OL has just fallen apart lately, and our receivers simply can't catch the ball. If Ginn catches either of the would-be TDs, it's a whole different discussion this week. In some ways it's good to get a major reality check (too many valid excuses for the Ravens loss, absolutely none for this one) at this stage in the game. We've got a lot of work to do.

 

[deep9er]

1. QB
2. Protection, specifically the right side.
3. WRs.
4. Redzone offense. The 49ers have the worst redzone offense in the NFL.

make it +2.

as already noted the reasons are all close, so we're talking small differences. below i'm just nit picking on Alex Smith, cause overall he's done fine. every QB has a 'bad' game here and there.

for about half of his passes, it just seems Alex Smith takes a 1/2 sec too long? yes, there are pressures that come so fast its not his fault, but for those WITH time, he still seems to take too long?

seems like he can only throw 'static' patterns, those where the receiver almost stops, or makes a small cut? the exception used to be the seam pass to Vernon Davis.

even when he does complete passes, seems like half of those aren't quite accurate enough? even when it gets there, the receiver is stretching, bending, looking back, or diving forward? just seems a few more completions should've gotten more YAC's? this is the difference between completion and explosive.

the protection is clearly a close second, but even if Alex had a sec more, just doesn't seem like he has enough?

 

[zman1527]

Someone just posted an article showing our O-Line ranks 28th in PP. Case closed. I doubt any of the other 3 parts of the pass game rank that low.

 

[imac_21]

1. QB
2. Protection
3. WR
4. Play calling

Alex has been much better this year than he's been in the past, but don't mistake the of thinking he's now good. He can't throw certain routes, and those routes are outside the numbers and beyond the sticks. He was 0-for those again yesterday missing Crabtree with a throw out of bounds (just like Ginn last week) and then he had two other throws on the same possession (one to Crabtree, one to Walker) that Wilson almost picked because they were so late (Walker got blown up on his because the ball was late).

When there are throws the QB can't make, it makes defending everything else easier, but it also makes calling plays more difficult.

Protection needs to no explanation.

WR . . . Crabtree is really growing on me this year. He's making the tough catches, he's running good routes, he's not being disruptive (at least publicly) and he is blocking for everyone (see Gore's TD yesterday). He does still have the odd lapse that results in a drop where he gets ahead of himself (the 3rd down slant against StL last week).

Kyle Williams looks good. He catches everything, is good after the catch, and is tough.

Edwards has been injured. Chemistry clearly hasn't developed.

Ginn. Just get off the team. Go away.

As for play calling, I'm going to rant more about personnel grouping than play calling. I like the diversity in the run game, getting the big guys out there. But yesterday in the last drive of the 2nd half (after the Goldson INT) we ran a fade to Ginn, and I didn't notice who else was on the field, but on the next play neither Crabtree or Edwards were on the field. We spend too much time shuffling our WRs in and out. Crabtree is clearly the best WR on the team, so why is he coming off the field for Ginn at times? What does Ginn do better than Crabtree as a WR? Run. That's it.

 

[NinerSickness]

1. QB
2. Protection
3. WR
4. Play calling

I'd say:

1. QB
2. WRs
3. Protection

 

[clyde_carbon]

opinions can be wrong

the offensive line should be far and away #1. having x amount of plays basically blown up, countless penalties and negative plays puts even more pressure on everyone else to execute with less 'clean plays'.

essentially with the offensive line being one of the worst in the league, it gives the offense less margin for error. ie you call the perfect play, get the perfect match ups and boom, pressure on the outside. but wait, can't step up into the pocket because there's pressure on the inside as well.

Obviously opinions can be wrong, but everyone already knows how I feel about our QB situation. Is there really a point in trying to erect a discussion with me about why I think QB is the biggest weakness?

Alex Smith isn't the worst player on our offense, but the QB position IS the biggest need. People still don't understand how much a good QB can make up for on offense.

 

[MHSL82]

As for play calling, I'm going to rant more about personnel grouping than play calling. I like the diversity in the run game, getting the big guys out there. But yesterday in the last drive of the 2nd half (after the Goldson INT) we ran a fade to Ginn, and I didn't notice who else was on the field, but on the next play neither Crabtree or Edwards were on the field. We spend too much time shuffling our WRs in and out. Crabtree is clearly the best WR on the team, so why is he coming off the field for Ginn at times? What does Ginn do better than Crabtree as a WR? Run. That's it.

Yeah, and on the endzone plays, we don't need his running and can't convert with his drops, so why was he called for two of them? Does he have a TD (non-return) this year?

 

[Flyingiguana]

make it +2.

as already noted the reasons are all close, so we're talking small differences. below i'm just nit picking on Alex Smith, cause overall he's done fine. every QB has a 'bad' game here and there.

for about half of his passes, it just seems Alex Smith takes a 1/2 sec too long? yes, there are pressures that come so fast its not his fault, but for those WITH time, he still seems to take too long?

seems like he can only throw 'static' patterns, those where the receiver almost stops, or makes a small cut? the exception used to be the seam pass to Vernon Davis.

even when he does complete passes, seems like half of those aren't quite accurate enough? even when it gets there, the receiver is stretching, bending, looking back, or diving forward? just seems a few more completions should've gotten more YAC's? this is the difference between completion and explosive.

the protection is clearly a close second, but even if Alex had a sec more, just doesn't seem like he has enough?

there are accuracy issues, but seems like his best throws which are right into the hands end up getting dropped. plus someone who was at the game mentioned the wr's dont get seperation. half a second isn't going to change that.

i think the coaching staff needs to take a bigtime look at what isn't working and make some adjustments

 

[Flyingiguana]

Obviously opinions can be wrong, but everyone already knows how I feel about our QB situation. Is there really a point in trying to erect a discussion with me about why I think QB is the biggest weakness?

Alex Smith isn't the worst player on our offense, but the QB position IS the biggest need. People still don't understand how much a good QB can make up for on offense.

i would agree if the offensive line was at least average. then it would be between the recievers and qb. but with how bad the line is, no qb can operate to his potential. not to mention, vernon gets stuck blocking more than he should, especially with edwards being injured. vernon should be our leading reciever at this point

 

[imac_21]

Yeah, and on the endzone plays, we don't need his running and can't convert with his drops, so why was he called for two of them? Does he have a TD (non-return) this year?

It's not only that his number was called, but he was on the field in the redzone and Crabtree and Edwards were on the bench.

That's a problem.

 

[bvanthielriceyoung]

1. QB
2. Protection
3. WR
4. Play calling

Alex has been much better this year than he's been in the past, but don't mistake the of thinking he's now good. He can't throw certain routes, and those routes are outside the numbers and beyond the sticks. He was 0-for those again yesterday missing Crabtree with a throw out of bounds (just like Ginn last week) and then he had two other throws on the same possession (one to Crabtree, one to Walker) that Wilson almost picked because they were so late (Walker got blown up on his because the ball was late).

When there are throws the QB can't make, it makes defending everything else easier, but it also makes calling plays more difficult.

Protection needs to no explanation.

WR . . . Crabtree is really growing on me this year. He's making the tough catches, he's running good routes, he's not being disruptive (at least publicly) and he is blocking for everyone (see Gore's TD yesterday). He does still have the odd lapse that results in a drop where he gets ahead of himself (the 3rd down slant against StL last week).

Kyle Williams looks good. He catches everything, is good after the catch, and is tough.

Edwards has been injured. Chemistry clearly hasn't developed.

Ginn. Just get off the team. Go away.

As for play calling, I'm going to rant more about personnel grouping than play calling. I like the diversity in the run game, getting the big guys out there. But yesterday in the last drive of the 2nd half (after the Goldson INT) we ran a fade to Ginn, and I didn't notice who else was on the field, but on the next play neither Crabtree or Edwards were on the field. We spend too much time shuffling our WRs in and out. Crabtree is clearly the best WR on the team, so why is he coming off the field for Ginn at times? What does Ginn do better than Crabtree as a WR? Run. That's it.

Good post imac, lot of great points there. Crabtree is definitely warming up to me. He's playing pretty well and needs be on the field damn near all the time. He knows how to help out the QB and is our best receiver.

To add to Alex Smith & our oline protection, I think Smith makes the oline look worse then they actually are. Like you said, with Smith at QB and having throws that he cant make, its easier to defend. On top that, Smith does not have quick release or make quick reads very well. Sometimes the difference between a sack and a good play is only 1/2 a second so this little bit affects a lot, especially how a defense is going to attack our team.

Smiths long ball is still very questionable. He has had a few good long throws(2 in the rams game) but so many of them are off the mark that no defense is even going to worry about that. The defense will play the odds and assume it will be a misfire.


Finally just want to add that our TE's, well specifically Davis, is very overrated and hurts our passing game. The guy is not that very hard to cover(dispite what many think) as you can just tell by his production. Sure he has great straight line speed and can stretch the field, but he rarely picks up those much needed yards and tough yards. He's not our QB's safety valve and he is unreliable.

 

[deep9er]

there are accuracy issues, but seems like his best throws which are right into the hands end up getting dropped. plus someone who was at the game mentioned the wr's dont get seperation. half a second isn't going to change that.

i think the coaching staff needs to take a bigtime look at what isn't working and make some adjustments

yes, the drops aren't helping no question, half second notwithstanding. again, its all very close and they all add up to issues with the pass.

there's no doubt in my mind the coaching staff continually works on it. so if there's a bright side, they SHOULD be learning how to handle pressure? we should see improvement next Monday on pass protect.

btw - if there is one position which can make the most difference, clearly its QB. but we tend to lump O-line and receivers together.

 

[sayheykid1]

Someone just posted an article showing our O-Line ranks 28th in PP. Case closed. I doubt any of the other 3 parts of the pass game rank that low.

I would like to see the math. How do they isolate fault to the line?

 

[clyde_carbon]

i would agree if the offensive line was at least average. then it would be between the recievers and qb. but with how bad the line is, no qb can operate to his potential. not to mention, vernon gets stuck blocking more than he should, especially with edwards being injured. vernon should be our leading reciever at this point

The OL is not one position. It's 5 different positions, and it's specifically one guy dragging them down, and that's Anthony Davis. Even if we replace Davis with a solid starter, how much better do you think our offense will be? Our redzone offense would jump from 32nd in the NFL to what? Our passing offense would jump 29th to what?

 

[Flyingiguana]

The OL is not one position. It's 5 different positions, and it's specifically one guy dragging them down, and that's Anthony Davis. Even if we replace Davis with a solid starter, how much better do you think our offense will be? Our redzone offense would jump from 32nd in the NFL to what? Our passing offense would jump 29th to what?

our passing game is limited because vernon has to block so much. with better protection there will be more opportunities to make plays. how much of an improvement is anyone's guess

 

[deep9er]

our passing game is limited because vernon has to block so much. with better protection there will be more opportunities to make plays. how much of an improvement is anyone's guess

someone posted above "Davis is overrated", and as a receiving threat i agree.

this isn't saying he ain't good or can't catch a lick, its just saying his reputation is MUCH higher than he really is. have to believe a big reason he stays in to block is.........thats his best contribution.

THE biggest factor he rated so high in '06 was his speed, have we seen him utilize it since 2006? if so, has it been enough times to match what you thought in '06?

 

[Flyingiguana]

that's the problem. he isn't being utilized like he was in 06 because of the line

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I like how the haterz are once again feeling bold enough to take big shots at Smith. Nice and quiet - almost humble - 1st half of the season but a few bad games and its back out with a vengeance.

We've seen how he can perform behind a wide range of performances from the OL......it should be obvious to pretty much any fair-minded person where the biggest recent problems lie here.

1. OL
2. WR
3. QB
4. playcalling

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Sometimes the difference between a sack and a good play is only 1/2 a second so this little bit affects a lot

Bvan and others citing similar factors....you do know the Niners have been giving up almost the quickest sacks in the league on average? We may have the worst RT in the league.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

The OL is not one position. It's 5 different positions, and it's specifically one guy dragging them down, and that's Anthony Davis. Even if we replace Davis with a solid starter, how much better do you think our offense will be? Our redzone offense would jump from 32nd in the NFL to what? Our passing offense would jump 29th to what?

That number 75 dude who replaced Staley is awful. They couldda put a traffic cone out there instead of him and got better results.