Panda contract?

[tzill]

I doubt they'll trade him if he's having a good year and we're in contention. I expect both those things to happen. They are much more likely to make the QO and take the sandwich pick than trade him.

Of course, I think either of those two scenarios would be foolish, but that's been established.

 

[Reefer]

When IMAX walked through the door at 300+ lbs, it should have sent red flags up the pole, the FO and Sabean should have immediately started looking for backup options.

I believe we overpaid for Pence, but atleast you know he show up in shape, and work his ass off.

The "freed up payroll" will come in handy only if they don't pocket that money. If the Giants are banking on Crawfords development, and Morse returning to MLB form, then Pablo is expendable. There are other holes aswell though, Scutaro is showing his age, he's 40 going on 60 years now? If he plays 120+ games this year, I'll be surprised.

Not sure how you can say Pence was an overpayment. Choo got 7/130 and is a year older than Pence and Ellsbury got 7/153 in the offseason, same age and history of injuries and speed is a big part of his game. Pence definitely would have gotten more years than 5 and likely a higher AAV than his 18m.

The freed up payroll is also not beneficial as most everyone is locked up besides Belt and we've seen how grossly overpaid FAs are. While I would be incredibly weary of giving Panda 5 years or more, he would barely be 33 at the end of that deal. Most FAs of his skills will will end up being paid into their late 30's. Plus even if his weight and conditioning becomes too much of an issue, a team WILL trade for him to DH. If they had to go 5/100, I wouldn't be overjoyed, but I would be happier than letting him walk.

Regarding Scutaro, I think there are man more internal options at 2B. Arias has been a nice utility player, Panik is still in the minors, Adrianza looks like the bat may come around enough to become a contributor. I'd be much more concerned on how to replace Pablo's production than Scutaro's.

Not sure how Crawford or Morse have anything to do with Pablo being expendable. LF has been a huge offensive hole and Morse returning to form fills it, it doesn't replace Pablo. Crawford will never be close to that bat that Pablo is so not seeing how his development could make Pablo expendable. 3B would become another hole to fill. The only guy I have any faith in at 3B is Duvall, but he is 25, just finished his first year at AA and is not great defensively. Though he does have major league pop. Arroyo is intriguing and I think he'll be moved to 3B, but is years away. If the plan is to move Buster to 3rd and have Sanchez and Susac catch I could understand not signing him, but Sabean made a point to say when Buster was extended that he was going to catch.

 

[NBKLee]

Based on what?

Just personal opinion, but when the market bears giving, when Ricky Henderson signed his $3 mil per year contract in 1989 that blew my mind.

Nowadays, you have teams forking over 10 years $292 mil to 31 year old players


Anyone else smell lockout coming?

 

[tzill]

Not sure how you can say Pence was an overpayment. Choo got 7/130 and is a year older than Pence and Ellsbury got 7/153 in the offseason, same age and history of injuries and speed is a big part of his game. Pence definitely would have gotten more years than 5 and likely a higher AAV than his 18m.

The freed up payroll is also not beneficial as most everyone is locked up besides Belt and we've seen how grossly overpaid FAs are. While I would be incredibly weary of giving Panda 5 years or more, he would barely be 33 at the end of that deal. Most FAs of his skills will will end up being paid into their late 30's. Plus even if his weight and conditioning becomes too much of an issue, a team WILL trade for him to DH. If they had to go 5/100, I wouldn't be overjoyed, but I would be happier than letting him walk.

Regarding Scutaro, I think there are man more internal options at 2B. Arias has been a nice utility player, Panik is still in the minors, Adrianza looks like the bat may come around enough to become a contributor. I'd be much more concerned on how to replace Pablo's production than Scutaro's.

Not sure how Crawford or Morse have anything to do with Pablo being expendable. LF has been a huge offensive hole and Morse returning to form fills it, it doesn't replace Pablo. Crawford will never be close to that bat that Pablo is so not seeing how his development could make Pablo expendable. 3B would become another hole to fill. The only guy I have any faith in at 3B is Duvall, but he is 25, just finished his first year at AA and is not great defensively. Though he does have major league pop. Arroyo is intriguing and I think he'll be moved to 3B, but is years away. If the plan is to move Buster to 3rd and have Sanchez and Susac catch I could understand not signing him, but Sabean made a point to say when Buster was extended that he was going to catch.

Look at Reefer getting all logical and dropping MAD KNOWLEDGE on the board. The only thing I would add here is that Panik is at a shit-or-get-off-the-pot moment in his career. 257/333/347 in the Eastern League at 22 isn't fatal, but he'll really needs to show something this year to get into the mix at 2b in San Francisco. I'm hoping that he's more like 280/350/370 in Fresno this year, and gets a September call up.

 

[tzill]

Just personal opinion, but when the market bears giving, when Ricky Henderson signed his $3 mil per year contract in 1989 that blew my mind.

Nowadays, you have teams forking over 10 years $292 mil to 31 year old players


Anyone else smell lockout coming?

OK, but I think it's been pretty well argued that we got Pence below market.

 

[SFGRTB]

So it looks like more people are joining the sign Pablo now club. Apparently, Pablo's agent has been sued by his former agency. Wonder what affect, if any, this will have on negotiations.

Pablo Sandoval's agent named in lawsuit alleging fraud - ESPN

 

[Heathbar012]

Not sure how you can say Pence was an overpayment. Choo got 7/130 and is a year older than Pence and Ellsbury got 7/153 in the offseason, same age and history of injuries and speed is a big part of his game. Pence definitely would have gotten more years than 5 and likely a higher AAV than his 18m.

The freed up payroll is also not beneficial as most everyone is locked up besides Belt and we've seen how grossly overpaid FAs are. While I would be incredibly weary of giving Panda 5 years or more, he would barely be 33 at the end of that deal. Most FAs of his skills will will end up being paid into their late 30's. Plus even if his weight and conditioning becomes too much of an issue, a team WILL trade for him to DH. If they had to go 5/100, I wouldn't be overjoyed, but I would be happier than letting him walk.

Regarding Scutaro, I think there are man more internal options at 2B. Arias has been a nice utility player, Panik is still in the minors, Adrianza looks like the bat may come around enough to become a contributor. I'd be much more concerned on how to replace Pablo's production than Scutaro's.

Not sure how Crawford or Morse have anything to do with Pablo being expendable. LF has been a huge offensive hole and Morse returning to form fills it, it doesn't replace Pablo. Crawford will never be close to that bat that Pablo is so not seeing how his development could make Pablo expendable. 3B would become another hole to fill. The only guy I have any faith in at 3B is Duvall, but he is 25, just finished his first year at AA and is not great defensively. Though he does have major league pop. Arroyo is intriguing and I think he'll be moved to 3B, but is years away. If the plan is to move Buster to 3rd and have Sanchez and Susac catch I could understand not signing him, but Sabean made a point to say when Buster was extended that he was going to catch.

Word.

Look at Reefer getting all logical and dropping MAD KNOWLEDGE on the board. The only thing I would add here is that Panik is at a shit-or-get-off-the-pot moment in his career. 257/333/347 in the Eastern League at 22 isn't fatal, but he'll really needs to show something this year to get into the mix at 2b in San Francisco. I'm hoping that he's more like 280/350/370 in Fresno this year, and gets a September call up.

I think your hope will come true.

 

[NBKLee]

Not sure how Crawford or Morse have anything to do with Pablo being expendable. LF has been a huge offensive hole and Morse returning to form fills it, it doesn't replace Pablo. Crawford will never be close to that bat that Pablo is so not seeing how his development could make Pablo expendable. 3B would become another hole to fill....

Not saying we don't need a replacement for Pablo @ 3b, but Pablo's basically laid an egg the first 8 games.

Crawford and Morse have been respectable and given us more than what we had last year. Of course tearing the stiches off the balls have helped also

Apparently Sabean isn't going to budge, nor should he. Let Pablo test the market, and see what a sub .280 hitter gets. If things stay on course, I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for.

 

[msgkings322]

Not saying we don't need a replacement for Pablo @ 3b, but Pablo's basically laid an egg the first 8 games.

Crawford and Morse have been respectable and given us more than what we had last year. Of course tearing the stiches off the balls have helped also

Apparently Sabean isn't going to budge, nor should he. Let Pablo test the market, and see what a sub .280 hitter gets. If things stay on course, I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for.

I don't have the energy to explain all the things wrong with this post, but let's just say you are much better at evaluating basketball than baseball.

I do agree that Sabean is probably right to let things play out for a while before making an offer, because the pressure may be getting to Pablo and bringing his price down. 8 games is nothing in baseball, the kid has a track record. Maybe if he keeps struggling he'll tell his agent 'you know what I can't deal with the salary drive pressure, go ahead and ask for 3/50, or 5/75...' He'll probably say this in Spanish though.

Maybe not, just speculating.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Not saying we don't need a replacement for Pablo @ 3b, but Pablo's basically laid an egg the first 8 games.

Crawford and Morse have been respectable and given us more than what we had last year. Of course tearing the stiches off the balls have helped also

Apparently Sabean isn't going to budge, nor should he. Let Pablo test the market, and see what a sub .280 hitter gets. If things stay on course, I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for.

You are completely wrong. But let's talk about this after Pablo signs his next contract and see who was right.

 

[tzill]

Not saying we don't need a replacement for Pablo @ 3b, but Pablo's basically laid an egg the first 8 games.

Crawford and Morse have been respectable and given us more than what we had last year. Of course tearing the stiches off the balls have helped also

Apparently Sabean isn't going to budge, nor should he. Let Pablo test the market, and see what a sub .280 hitter gets. If things stay on course, I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for.

You do realize he's a career .296 hitter, right?

What sort of "course" are you talking about? His 8 game SSS?

If he performs to projections, he'll put up something like 285/350/460 with 20 HR 80 RBI and 3.6 WAR in about 140 GP.

Open market, that's worth about $20MM.

 

[tzill]

I don't have the energy to explain all the things wrong with this post, but let's just say you are much better at evaluating basketball than baseball.

I do agree that Sabean is probably right to let things play out for a while before making an offer, because the pressure may be getting to Pablo and bringing his price down. 8 games is nothing in baseball, the kid has a track record. Maybe if he keeps struggling he'll tell his agent 'you know what I can't deal with the salary drive pressure, go ahead and ask for 3/50, or 5/75...' He'll probably say this in Spanish though.

Maybe not, just speculating.

Maybe he'll ask in Dutch, through Bam Bam?

 

[tzill]

You are completely wrong. But let's talk about this after Pablo signs his next contract and see who was right.

You can't fault Lee for taking a stance...as dead wrong in public as it will turn out to be.

At least he's pleasant about it, unlike Toolish Foolsense.

 

[NBKLee]

You are completely wrong. But let's talk about this after Pablo signs his next contract and see who was right.

I'll say it again, let the guy walk. I could be completely wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

The guy isn't worth 5 years $90 mil, not sure he's worth half that amount. He could catch fire, and hit close to his "career average", but he could also continue to be "just average".

$16 mil a year for a average hitter is insane, let the Dodgers or some other team overpay for a player like that. Factor that in with his tendency to balloon up like the Good Year Blimp + increased age during his contract + increased likelihood of injury, and just have to say NO.

Just throwing it out there, Ryan Zimmerman, was putting up better #'s last few years, got a fat deal, and got hurt. Should be a cautionary tale.

Then again, its not my money, if the powers that be want to shell out the coin for more Panda hat sales, do it.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I'll say it again, let the guy walk. I could be completely wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

The guy isn't worth 5 years $90 mil, not sure he's worth half that amount. He could catch fire, and hit close to his "career average", but he could also continue to be "just average".

$16 mil a year for a average hitter is insane, let the Dodgers or some other team overpay for a player like that. Factor that in with his tendency to balloon up like the Good Year Blimp + increased age during his contract + increased likelihood of injury, and just have to say NO.

Just throwing it out there, Ryan Zimmerman, was putting up better #'s last few years, got a fat deal, and got hurt. Should be a cautionary tale.

Then again, its not my money, if the powers that be want to shell out the coin for more Panda hat sales, do it.

I was commenting specifically on your comment : "I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for."

He is definitely going to get more than 3/15 - significantly more. But let's wait until he signs and see who is right, instead of jawing about it. There have been 4 or 5 threads in the last few months about this, and it's really starting to get tiring.

 

[tzill]

I'll say it again, let the guy walk. I could be completely wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

The guy isn't worth 5 years $90 mil, not sure he's worth half that amount. He could catch fire, and hit close to his "career average", but he could also continue to be "just average".

$16 mil a year for a average hitter is insane, let the Dodgers or some other team overpay for a player like that. Factor that in with his tendency to balloon up like the Good Year Blimp + increased age during his contract + increased likelihood of injury, and just have to say NO.

Just throwing it out there, Ryan Zimmerman, was putting up better #'s last few years, got a fat deal, and got hurt. Should be a cautionary tale.

Then again, its not my money, if the powers that be want to shell out the coin for more Panda hat sales, do it.

You're assuming he'll be average. He's probably the fourth best 3B in the game (Wright, Zimmerman, Longoria) . There seems to be speculation that the agent is at fault and inexperienced and that the two sides will meet at 4/60.

I do that deal yesterday.

 

[msgkings322]

You're assuming he'll be average. He's probably the fourth best 3B in the game (Wright, Zimmerman, Longoria) . There seems to be speculation that the agent is at fault and inexperienced and that the two sides will meet at 4/60.

I do that deal yesterday.

 

[Mays-Fan]

You're assuming he'll be average. He's probably the fourth best 3B in the game (Wright, Zimmerman, Longoria) . There seems to be speculation that the agent is at fault and inexperienced and that the two sides will meet at 4/60.

I do that deal yesterday.

That's a fair offer. The Giants should make it. And Panda should take it.

 

[NBKLee]

You're assuming he'll be average. He's probably the fourth best 3B in the game (Wright, Zimmerman, Longoria) . There seems to be speculation that the agent is at fault and inexperienced and that the two sides will meet at 4/60.

I do that deal yesterday.

Up for debate I suppose, you not going to throw up Miggy Cabrera or give Adrian Beltre a mention?

I'd bet they probably have better years than IMAX.

You could argue Pablo has better range on defense, but that's not saying much. 4/60 is a little rich for me.

I'd go up to 3/35 maybe, but that's pushing it. I want to see him put together b2b years where he actually stays in shape and doesn't land on the DL to fix his weight.

 

[NBKLee]

I was commenting specifically on your comment : "I find it hard to believe anyone would give him a 3 year deal for 5 mil per let alone the 5 years $90 MIL that he's asking for."

He is definitely going to get more than 3/15 - significantly more. But let's wait until he signs and see who is right, instead of jawing about it. There have been 4 or 5 threads in the last few months about this, and it's really starting to get tiring.

There may be several threads, but I remember posting in any of them. If I'm boring you , or you don't like this thread, ignore it and move on