Pac 12 basketball

[The Derski]

Any of you see Cliff Alexander's commitment? He faked out Illinois fans.

Illinois fans reaction
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qCYErpJTF8]Illinois Students React to Cliff Alexander Commitment Announcement - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CatsTopPac]

Saw that, ahahahahahahaha, because Illinois is going nowhere!!!! Makes me smile inside from 2005. Karma's a bitch!!!!!

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Alexander is such a troll. haha

 

[Vitamike]

Any of you see Cliff Alexander's commitment? He faked out Illinois fans.

Illinois fans reaction
Illinois Students React to Cliff Alexander Commitment Announcement - YouTube

Dat was great!

 

[The Derski]

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

We gotta win tonight. Really early road game for ASU hoops. Last time it was this early we went up to San Diego State, and almost lost but thanks to Harden we held on. I could see us losing but lets hope we break away in the 2nd half.

 

[LASports96]

I'm sure I'll be the only USC basketball fan on here...

 

[The Derski]

I'm sure I'll be the only USC basketball fan on here...

There's a couple more. I've seen them with my own two eyes.

 

[CatsTopPac]

What did I tell you about ASU's bench? In 50 minutes, 5 players scored 7 points, had 12 rebs, and 4 assists. That's pretty weak. And if they decide to switch Egor with McKissic, those numbers drop dramatically. That is where the main weakness with ASU is this year. Like I said all along, Jahii, Bach, Marshall, and Gilling will be fine. It's as the season wears on that the bench problems will be magnified. Think about it. When they get 25 games into it, and the starters are all playing 35 mpg to do well enough to win the early games, they are going to wear out. Then what? Someone gets injured, or gets tired, sloppy, and into foul trouble, or just has a bad game. No one is set to pick up the slack. That is where it's going to cost you. The last half of the season consists of a gauntlet for ASU: @AZ (home vs. Utah), CU, @ Cal, @ Stan, (home vs. OSU), Oregon, AZ, @ CU, (@Utah), Stan, Cal, @ Oregon, (@ OSU). Out of their last 14 games, 10 of those games are going to require some real effort to win. And then the Pac 12 tourney starts where they have to play a game every day, and the competition gets better with every win. They are going to need a bench that they just don't have. Again: not saying it's impossible for them to make the dance, but they have some touch stretches come mid-Jan, all the way to Selection Sunday.

You are right, Herb is going to have a down year next year after Jahii, Marshall, and Bach all leave. They will be gutted, no matter what. And that's the problem with Herb. He won't be able to bring anyone in immediately to win. So unless ASU makes the tourney and wins a game, he will be gone after next year (if ASU is lucky). Then what? Unless they get a coach that has a name right off the bat, that coach (Musselman) will have to prove himself and build the program from scratch, in order to get a few top 100 recruits to buy in. No one is going to take Musselman on his word -as not having been a head coach in college- that they will win. And as well as he is doing as an assistant, it's still at ASU, and he's still and assistant. I'm not saying that he won't do well. But he will have to start from scratch, and not very many top 100 recruits are going to sign up for that without seeing it first. So, he will have to start in the '15-'16 season to build the program. If he can build it up after a couple/few years to the point where players are willing to come, then he will finally have the opportunity to get ASU to the top of the Pac. But again, that's not until around the 2019 season. It just takes time, unless you can go out and get a big name coach (with a record of college head coaching success) that will bring recruits in right away. Because let's face it, coaching in the NBA until 2007 doesn't equate to college success right off the bat, in 2015. And recruits know that.

That's what we mean by the fact that it's going to take a while. Unless ASU goes out and gets a good, proven coach. But I can't think of any that would want to resurrect ASU, when there are other programs much further along. I think Musselman is their best bet, and so it will take time until recruits jump on board. And let's say that ASU becomes awesome in 2019 (just for the sake of argument), where are the other teams in the Pac, like AZ, UCLA, USC, CU, Oregon, etc. going to be? Because they all have head coaches who are already there, and building. ASU will have to contend with them, and they're already getting a head start.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

First things first. ASU doesn't have Kearney. I still believe Mckissic who dropped 33 points in the maroon and gold scrimmage and had a solid first game is going to be a good bench player, Jacobsen, Egor, Murray, Robinson, and Edwards is much deeper than last year when you look at last years bench. Colvin, Pateev, Bo Barnes who was awful sloppy handles, no 3 point jumper. Its deeper than last year just give them time.

Early in the season everyone has there struggles exhibit A http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=283490009

Kearney worked really hard this off season and has a 7 foot wingspan. Mckissic has all the talent in the world but has no confidence in himself at times you have to take the good with the bed but I like him coming off the bench and as the season goes on he will get better. Egor can rebound and defend 10 boards last game. Murray and Robinson are solid guards that give us some minutes. Murray is a solid 3 point shooter, while Robinson is more of a play maker. Jacobsen is a lot better than his stats show he played limited minutes because of match ups expect him to have a big role this year. Kearney will start at the 3. Shaq has shown flashes of being good he needs to be consistent. But I still think the bench will be average by the end of the season much better than last years.

On what ASU does after Herb its simple. ASU isnt a basketball school what your going to do need to do. Is get a coach who has a past of recruiting athletes or a coach with experience. I keep saying just hire Musselman............. But to fill up a gym your going to need an exciting style of play. An uptempo team that can run the floor, athletic, well liked team. No boring herb motion crap with the new coach, a proven coach whos known for recruiting athletes and plays run n gun basketball. I know its hard to say get ASU basketball a proven coach but all the coaches that come in here are for the most part proven in a lower conference or even in a higher conference, and most of the time they just shit the bed. I really think the style of play will help you build a program, an exciting brand of basketball is your only hope to fill up the stadium when your not ranked.

CTP unless you know any coaches that would be great for the ASU job? Frank Haith should get fired from Mizzou soon enough. But we have seen proven coaches like Rob Evans come in here and shit the bed. We have seen big time recruiters like Bill Freeder put together competitive teams but once again shit the bed. It maybe time to take a chance on a guy like Musselman? ASU isn't going to fill up there stadium consistently whether we like it or not. Phoenix is full of bandwagon fans. Remember the state that use to love the suns? They can barely fill up 2/4s of there stadium AZ use to fill up mad house at mcdowell even through bad years its sad this new generation of kids just dont have the heart for AZ sports.

They do have a head start. I said this after the 2012 season and when people were transferring the only reason they were holding onto Herb was for Jahii. But come on Musselman? Couldnt of stepped in as interm while we looked for a coach? ASU needs to get a coach that runs an exciting brand of basketball, a coach that has a history of getting good athletes, and a coach that is well involved with the community its about building a program. Musselman to me fits all those criteria why not just fucking take a chance? Hiring another out of conference coach or a proven recruiter? We have seen what happens they shit the bed. I love ASU basketball and I have spent some good moments of my child hood at Wells Fargo watching Glasser, Harden. But dude kids my age the bandwagon fans when I was younger use to go to ASU games just to watch Harden and even now just to watch Jahii. There is no passion for the ASU basketball program that I have. I dont know I guess im just a good ASU fan. But we need to take a chance and hope we get lucky. Building our program is important post Sendek era, and running a system, athletic players, and a good coach that make basketball fun so we can actually fill up Wells Fargo!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY4MUebL2M8]U of A vs. ASU Basketball - YouTube[/ame] This ASU team was great but damn were they boring in there half court offense. None of this crap with the new coach. Need to play fast and uptempo in order to fill up the seats no boring style of play! That is the key getting the fans and alummni invested and actually developing a fan base. Cut the seat numbers at Wells Fargo Arena I hate looking at all the empty seats behind me while there are like 100 people in the upperdeck section. It was even like this in the Harden days fucking ridiculous! I mean if ASU is able to put a solid product on the floor that is fun to watch even last years team. With ticket prices being cheap? Why wouldn't you want to go?

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

But yea CTP the bench will get better. Kearney is a glue guy that will be solid at the 3. And Mckissic should get better as the season goes on. Im not worried at all right now. I actually think UNLV just had a great night offensively still would be nice to fix up our poor defense. And Kearney will help that.

Egor,Mckissic,Murray,Robinson,Edwards,Jacobsen are the bench players this year and Egor is a good rebounder and a decent defender from what I have seen had 10 boards last game we need that at the 3 until Kearney comes back while Mckissic comes off the bench.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

Kearney has a lot of upside 7 foot wing span. He will take time to develop like Felix but should be solid this year.

 

[CatsTopPac]

You keep breaking down all these players, but you have to get to a rotation. There are only so many bench minutes per game. As you play better competition, and can't afford to spend the last 10 minutes of the game just rotating different players in to give them time to prove themselves, you have to call it what it is. ASU will probably settle on probably a 9-10 man rotation. That'a a lot, but I think Herb can run with that, because he is still trying to answer a few questions on his bench. But be real. Upchurch, Barnes, and Tummala are not going to get any meaningful minutes this year. And once Kearney comes in, the crunch will be even greater.

But again, there are only a certain number of minutes.

Jahii will get 30-35 mpg. So Calaen will get his back-up minutes (and only 5 mpg).
Marshall will get 35 mpg, so Murray will get his back-up minutes (5 mpg).
McKissic and Egor, right now are taking up all the minutes at the 3. And when Kearney comes back, the weaker of those two will probably lose their spot.
Gilling is going to play 30 minutes, and it looks like Edwards will get his 10 back up minutes.
Bach is going to play 35 minutes, and Jacobsen will get his back-up minutes (5 mpg).

So your bench consists of:

Calaen 5mpg
Murray 5mpg
(whomever takes the wing backup will get 10 mpg max
Edwards 10mpg
Jacobsen 5 mpg.

Now compare how they are doing with the minutes they get right now against UMBC, Miami (OH), Iadho St, and UNLV, and cut those to the mpg they will get when they streamline the bench due to no junk minutes going around, and adjust their stats accordingly. Now, also factor in there that instead of getting those stats against a bunch of weak mid-majors, they are going up against a sold Pac schedule.

You are looking at a bunch of guys that are going to average a bucket or two, with a board or two, and maybe an assist and a turnover in 5-10 mpg.

That is a weak bench.

I could go in and say that because AZ has 13 players that are getting minutes and scoring, that AZ has a deep bench. But the fact is that when the competition gets better, the deep bench minutes will disappear, and the rotation will shorten up to 8, maybe 9. And those are meaningful minutes for the most part. I don't think that Pitts, or Korchek will contribute even though they get minutes. a bucket and a board for 5 minutes of PT is not meaningful.

ASU has a weak bench, that's why you see Jahii, Bach, Marshall all getting well over 30 mpg when they play a close game. The more close games you play, the more tired the starters will be at the end, but they played so many minutes because of the dropoff in contribution from the bench to begin with. Herb has to ride the starters til the wheels fall off. And they will fall off. I'm not saying that the bench is terrible, or worse than last year. But it's definitely your weakness, and a pretty big one. Hopefully some players step up, but it's just not likely once the season is under way. Maybe Kearney will. I'm not worried about Gilling. But when you have players like McKissic who already have half his games, and 30 minutes of playing time so far this year at 0 points, against weak opponents, then it starts to look like a red flag, especially because he is either an inconsistent starter, or he makes your bench weaker because he won't get the minutes to shine (when he does).

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

There isnt like this crazy rotation but they can give enough minutes to keep our guys fresh. Once the Az schools run a Cal out of the gym, they will be gassed when they play Asu and Stanford will be run out of the gym like last year. Our bench isnt that bad I like our back up guards, Egor, and Jacobsen. There is more depth than last year. Herb just needs to get a regular subsitution pattern. And not be scrambling through the bench.

 

[CatsTopPac]

There isnt like this crazy rotation but they can give enough minutes to keep our guys fresh. Once the Az schools run a Cal out of the gym, they will be gassed when they play Asu and Stanford will be run out of the gym like last year. Our bench isnt that bad I like our back up guards, Egor, and Jacobsen. There is more depth than last year. Herb just needs to get a regular subsitution pattern. And not be scrambling through the bench.

We'll revisit this in Feb-March, and see how it all plays out.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

We'll revisit this in Feb-March, and see how it all plays out.

Yea I mean it took Harden time to develop (like 1 game) then vs LSU he went crazy lmao. Freshmen usually play better in the 2nd half of the season. Murray,Robinson> Colvin. We dont have a back up big man a true center. But I think your underestimating Kearney. I know he hasn't put up the monster stats. But he put in a lot of work this season, and at the very least he will give you defense and rebounding. Pretty good in transition from what I have heard.

After the UNLV game we are not a tourney team, but as we gel, and once Kearney comes back and Herb gets a substitution patter, and the freshmen settle down I think we can be.

I still worry though Jermaine has had knee problems the last couple of years. Another season of 30+ minutes will take a toll. Why cant I see the Mckissic that we all saw glimpses of at the maroon and gold scrimmage? It all depends on how the bench develops.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

But yea CTP if it doesn't develop and were stuck with 5-6 guys who play inconsistently with no substitution pattern. Then yes we wont be dancing. Also what the fuck is wrong with Gilling man this happens every year!

 

[CatsTopPac]

I have no issues with Kearney. But there is only 40 minutes between Kearney, Egor, and McKissic. Something's got to give, come January. No doubt that it might take a game or two for Kearney to get back to game-speed, but someone is going to play 30 mpg (give or take), and there is only going to be time for one back-up. If McKissic doesn't get some consistency, Egor will take his minutes. If McKissic can sustain his talent, then maybe it's between Egor and Kearney. I don't know, but you are not going to see 3 players split the 3 spot down the middle at 13 mpg. There's got to be a starter and a backup, and the third one is going to be out of the rotation... unless they are good enough to slide over a spot and take another back-up's minutes, and that previous back-up sits. There are only so many minutes to go around.

 

[JahiiCarson_SqodGeneral]

UW is getting its ass kicked by Boston College?????????????

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Washington is going to be embarrassingly horrible this year. Bad for the Pac12.