Overrated/Underrated Coaches

[BOSS429Mustang]

Those are the facts, and I can't argue with that. But if you're suggesting that you need a certain amount of luck to win the Super Bowl, well I guess that could be said for some teams....the 9-7 Giants and 10-6 Packers of recent memory immediately come to mind. But if you're saying the Titans were unlucky to play tough teams, or the Rams had an easier time of it in the NFC I wholeheartedly disagree with you as usual. St. Louis was the best team from start to finish. That kind of murder's row schedule in the playoffs happens every year. I always prefer to play the best, at their strongest, whether it be personally or my team. That way there are no built in excuses for why you lost. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best.


Sounds a lot like you are a closet Tennessee fan. Either that or you just want to be argumentative for the sake of it.

 

[ozarkram]

Vita sounds like you are a Fisher fan. When every topic is considered a fight you can generally throw logic and sound reasoning out of the window. And of course you can always fall back on name calling too cloud the issue.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

This why I rarely pursue these things. Back too the bushes.

For someone who proclaims that he rarely pursues these things, you sure do a lot of chiming in Ozark. And with inaccurate information at that. I don't see any name calling here......are you sure it's that you just don't want to pile on as usual and then head back to the shadows as is your habit?

 

[ozarkram]

Uncalled for unnecessary but not unexpected.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

OK, whatever. Your logic is far too difficult for me to follow.....

 

[Caynine29]

By the way there are two kinds of luck of course.

How about Fisher's luck here?

Playing a wild card game @ 13-3.
Your opponent is 11-5.
Then you face the number 2 seed @ 13-3.
Then the number 1 seed @ 14-2.
Then the greatest show on turf in the Super Bowl @ 13-3 just to come up inches from a PAT that ties it or wins it.

That's how I remember it Boss.

That's how I remember it as well. Of course, I'm not going to be the one to say Fisher is the greatest coach of all time. In fact... "overrated" is probably a lot closer to accurate, depending upon how anyone rates him in the first place.

I like the guy, though. I think he's good for this team. (At least, he has been so far. There's no denying that.). Considering the last two years, I'm excited to see what the future holds under this regime. Especially with the addition of Gregg Williams. And it's been years since I could say that.

As long as the players are buying in, I am too. Go Rams!!!

 

[Vitamike]

Those are the facts, and I can't argue with that. But if you're suggesting that you need a certain amount of luck to win the Super Bowl, well I guess that could be said for some teams....the 9-7 Giants and 10-6 Packers of recent memory immediately come to mind. But if you're saying the Titans were unlucky to play tough teams, or the Rams had an easier time of it in the NFC I wholeheartedly disagree with you as usual. St. Louis was the best team from start to finish. That kind of murder's row schedule in the playoffs happens every year. I always prefer to play the best, at their strongest, whether it be personally or my team. That way there are no built in excuses for why you lost. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best.


Sounds a lot like you are a closet Tennessee fan. Either that or you just want to be argumentative for the sake of it.

Sorry to keep you guessing. I've been flying today, working in Dallas this week. What I'm saying is Fisher is better than mediocre and while his Titans may have been fortunate on that play vs the Bills, he managed well in a tough post season and nearly took home the Lombardi trophy.

Vita sounds like you are a Fisher fan. When every topic is considered a fight you can generally throw logic and sound reasoning out of the window. And of course you can always fall back on name calling too cloud the issue.

Like Caynine, I too think Fisher was the best fit for the Rams when we got him. Has he been perfect? No but he has put a roster together in two short seasons and this off season that most Rams fans can be proud of whether you are backing Sam or not.

 

[ozarkram]

Fisher is a good coach and a well respected coach. The Rams could and have done a lot worse. I am well pleased with him to this point. If it is someone's nature to find fault then that's what they are going to do. Personally I see no reason to bash our coach.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Fisher is a good coach and a well respected coach. The Rams could and have done a lot worse. I am well pleased with him to this point. If it is someone's nature to find fault then that's what they are going to do. Personally I see no reason to bash our coach.

Nobody's bashing the coach Ozark. Just as nobody is name calling. You seem to think that if someone doesn't agree with you, they are bashing somebody else. You are entitled to your opinion, but by the same token everybody else is also entitled to theirs even if it's not yours.

And there are perfectly legitimate reasons to label Fisher as mediocre at this point. It's not blasphemy with no evidence as you would insinuate. I just happen to agree with the writer of this particular article, and I guarantee I'm not the only one. It's also not sacrilege to have an objective opinion and see things other than through "homer-colored" lenses. And I don't really care if you agree with me or not. As a matter of fact I prefer you didn't. Makes me feel more secure in my position.

 

[ozarkram]

The only thing I don't understand is why you keep pulling me into your posts. When I have never once addressed you. Please save the paranoia.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

I involved you?? Yeah, OK. You injected yourself into the conversation I was having with Vita.......Just move slowly away from the keyboard Ozark. Go take the medication you've obviously been neglecting, then come back after it starts to take effect. Hopefully you'll be OK by then....

 

[ozarkram]

I involved you?? Yeah, OK. You injected yourself into the conversation I was having with Vita.......Just move slowly away from the keyboard Ozark. Go take the medication you've obviously been neglecting, then come back after it starts to take effect. Hopefully you'll be OK by then....

When you address someone you say something like Vita hey or you use quotes as I have here. Now if you just post in general then you are not directing the post at an individual. Now if you see yourself in the refection of my posts and that angers you. That's on you. Should I wish to yank your chain I will address you as I have here. I might suggest and it only that a suggestion. You seek out anger management classes because if something as simple as a sports message board gets you this enraged well it seems a problem. I hope you are able find some help for your own sake. I wish you only the best in your search. Go Rams!

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Thanks for the advice Ozark. That's very honorable of you. I just don't know why I didn't think of that....oh, maybe because it's not a legitimate issue, only a figment of your medication deprived imagination. Nonetheless, I would still like to retain access to your advice and wisdom for future events that I may need instruction on.....................

 

[bluepigpen]

Mediocre is a interesting and complex concept. Do I think Bradford is mediocre? Well until he gets us past the Seahawks and 49ers and into the playoffs, the answer is yes. As for Fisher he has also not got us to the playoffs but he also inherited the worst team for a 5 year period and taken them to at least respectability. I will hold final thoughts on him until his 5 years are up but at this point the Rams are better for hiring him. We can always argue the good and bad of players, teams, coaches and all but I can and will respect each opinion of Boss, Ozark, Vita, Mikey, Retro........and you know why? Each of you are a Rams fan first and that counts most in my book.

 

[Silas]

Personally, I'm okay with Fisher. Looks like Fisher is sticking to the running game, which is fine if you have the right players. I would like to see Fisher open things up a little more. Right now I have to admit the Rams have improved, but they are still a .500 team at best right now. Let's hope that changes this coming season.

 

[Vitamike]

Nobody's bashing the coach Ozark. Just as nobody is name calling. You seem to think that if someone doesn't agree with you, they are bashing somebody else. You are entitled to your opinion, but by the same token everybody else is also entitled to theirs even if it's not yours.

And there are perfectly legitimate reasons to label Fisher as mediocre at this point. It's not blasphemy with no evidence as you would insinuate. I just happen to agree with the writer of this particular article, and I guarantee I'm not the only one. It's also not sacrilege to have an objective opinion and see things other than through "homer-colored" lenses. And I don't really care if you agree with me or not. As a matter of fact I prefer you didn't. Makes me feel more secure in my position.

In the NFL, which can stand for Not For Long in this league, Jeff Fisher has been a Head Coach for most seasons since 1994. An NFL coach who is not very good or mediocre as you seem to think would not have been able to hit that mark, don't you think?

I find it funny that some actually want to use that very fact as an argument of ineptitude in this discussion.

It is flawed logic and I'll tell you how.

Here is an example that we all probably can relate to:

You get your review from your Boss and he has a hidden agenda to spread the wealth with his budget for annual raises. Even though you have out performed all others at your position he says to you:

"Sir, you have been at this for a long time, so we have high expectations from you, therefore you do not meet our expectations and the best we can do is give you a 5 percent max raise."
​

Now doesn't your boss look generous giving you the 'full raise' when he clearly has said you don't meet expectations. Also, why do you feel bad in this scenario? (And you know you do) It's because in this scenario his positions is crap, he knows it and you know it. Expectation in evaluations are to be performed or based on the expectations of the 'position' or 'tenure of the position's' itself and not the 'individual' or the 'individual's tenure'.

If you are buying this line of logic from your employer and you are outperforming your peers or those with similar tenure then you are getting worked. You should be the one getting the 6 percent plus raise and the others should be getting a 4 percent or less raise.

That said, this is what's going on with the writer of this article when he starts off saying ...

For a coach who ranks second among active NFL coaches in longevity

He's selling you that same crappy logic as the boss in the scenario above and he's doing it to provide an edge in his article to increase his online hits or views on his article. I don't blame him for his angle, I'm just not buying it for the same reasons I not buying it when a boss tries to pull that same crap,.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

I don't really care what kind of spin you put on this, Fisher is the definition of mediocre at this point. Are the Rams better than when he got here? Of course they are. But is that what you use to define good coaching?? Donald Duck could have coached them better than the previous buffoons we had. I never said, nor did the author of the article say that Fisher was inept. Just mediocre. Lets not forget, as some of you must have, that it was Fisher who hired the idiots we have (had) coaching this team on a subordinate level. Shall I remind you....lets see...how bout "Living In A Cave" offensive mentality" Shottenheimer. How about "Way In Over His Head" Walton.


Next we can cite the high draft picks that Fisher has struck out on, which we all know who they are so no need to list them.


How about Fisher's blind devotion to Bradford, who he is not even at least objective about regarding his performance. If Bradford burned down an orphanage Fisher would put a positive spin on it and say the world is over crowded anyway.


And yes I do understand that nobody is perfect, and all coaches make mistakes, so before anybody chimes in on that I'll cut you off even before you go there. My goal is not to disparage Fisher at this point as some have accused me of. But damn people, where is the objectivity here? Can't we just call it as we see it? It's not being pessimistic to not be constantly ridiculously optimistic you know.


All I'm saying is that Fisher has been mediocre at this point in his career. And as someone asked, how has he survived in the league for so long without being a good coach? I'll flip that around and ask how has he been in the league so long and have such a mediocre record? Want to compare his record to a GOOD coach? How many SBs has Belicheat won, whether you agree with his methods or not. How many SBs did Bill Walsh win? How many did Chuck Noll win? How many did Lombardi win. And in far less time than Fisher has been in the league. On cue now.....here come the excuses why.......Until Fisher proves something he will continue to be mediocre in my book. That is the definition of mediocre----average. I'm hoping he becomes the greatest coach in NFL history for crying out loud. But I'm not going to talk myself into something that I realistically can't believe at this point. Sam Bradford hasn't done squat to this point in his career. And some people still think he's just wonderful. With that same mentality, there are people that think Fisher is the second coming of Lombardi, and they'll think that way even if he retires without ever doing anything. There will always be the people who find excuses for everything. Personally I loved competing against those people. I knew they spent more time making up their next excuse than they did in trying to get better at their particular craft.


The sympathizers are entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to mine. Fisher is just another polarizing subject on these boards along with the Bradford debate.


As far as I can see the only thing that is ever going to be unanimous on this board is that we all want to see the Rams succeed. The many other things, well we'll just have to agree to continue to disagree.

 

[Vitamike]

I don't really care what kind of spin you put on this, Fisher is the definition of mediocre at this point. Are the Rams better than when he got here? Of course they are. But is that what you use to define good coaching?? Donald Duck could have coached them better than the previous buffoons we had. I never said, nor did the author of the article say that Fisher was inept. Just mediocre. Lets not forget, as some of you must have, that it was Fisher who hired the idiots we have (had) coaching this team on a subordinate level. Shall I remind you....lets see...how bout "Living In A Cave" offensive mentality" Shottenheimer. How about "Way In Over His Head" Walton.


Next we can cite the high draft picks that Fisher has struck out on, which we all know who they are so no need to list them.


How about Fisher's blind devotion to Bradford, who he is not even at least objective about regarding his performance. If Bradford burned down an orphanage Fisher would put a positive spin on it and say the world is over crowded anyway.


And yes I do understand that nobody is perfect, and all coaches make mistakes, so before anybody chimes in on that I'll cut you off even before you go there. My goal is not to disparage Fisher at this point as some have accused me of. But damn people, where is the objectivity here? Can't we just call it as we see it? It's not being pessimistic to not be constantly ridiculously optimistic you know.


All I'm saying is that Fisher has been mediocre at this point in his career. And as someone asked, how has he survived in the league for so long without being a good coach? I'll flip that around and ask how has he been in the league so long and have such a mediocre record? Want to compare his record to a GOOD coach? How many SBs has Belicheat won, whether you agree with his methods or not. How many SBs did Bill Walsh win? How many did Chuck Noll win? How many did Lombardi win. And in far less time than Fisher has been in the league. On cue now.....here come the excuses why.......Until Fisher proves something he will continue to be mediocre in my book. That is the definition of mediocre----average. I'm hoping he becomes the greatest coach in NFL history for crying out loud. But I'm not going to talk myself into something that I realistically can't believe at this point. Sam Bradford hasn't done squat to this point in his career. And some people still think he's just wonderful. With that same mentality, there are people that think Fisher is the second coming of Lombardi, and they'll think that way even if he retires without ever doing anything. There will always be the people who find excuses for everything. Personally I loved competing against those people. I knew they spent more time making up their next excuse than they did in trying to get better at their particular craft.


The sympathizers are entitled to your opinion, but I'm also entitled to mine. Fisher is just another polarizing subject on these boards along with the Bradford debate.


As far as I can see the only thing that is ever going to be unanimous on this board is that we all want to see the Rams succeed. The many other things, well we'll just have to agree to continue to disagree.

Never got past the the bold part of your post. I guess I'll read it later but to me, you can call it spin, I just call it logic.

Maybe you can do us both a favor and read through it again as 'logic' and not 'spin' and I'll finish reading your post entirely and we can meet back here at a latter time.

~ Cheers!

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Doesn't bother me if you read it or not Vita. If there is no interest on your part, that's OK with me cause I do the same thing when something has no appeal to me. Put whatever spin you want on it.