Overrated/Underrated Coaches

[Retroram52]

I believe that to be Divine Providence Mikey.

 

[Caynine29]

You can only judge a player or coach by their past body of work Caynine, not their potential future work which hasn't occurred yet. So far, Fisher has done nothing with any franchise. He got a couple of division titles in Tennessee and lucked out on making it to the Super Bowl (yes luck. Remember the Music City Miracle) He currently resides firmly in the "mediocre" category. Vermeil may have been overrated when he got to St. Louis. But he certainly subsequently proved that he deserved his lofty appraisel wouldn't you agree? Until Fisher does that he deserves exactly the title he has----Mediocre.

All I'm saying is, the jury's still out.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Well, I would agree with that Caynine. But sooner or later the jury has to come in and make a decision, whether it be on Wennie Boy or Mr. Mediocre. Don't know what the time span is, but I imagine it is on the declining side for both of them at this point.

 

[Caynine29]

Well, I would agree with that Caynine. But sooner or later the jury has to come in and make a decision, whether it be on Wennie Boy or Mr. Mediocre. Don't know what the time span is, but I imagine it is on the declining side for both of them at this point.

I imagine that the jury will hand down a verdict once his career is over. Hell... there are still people who still feel Vermeil is overrated. (I'm not one of them, btw. Lol.)

I'm not suggesting whether Dick Vermeil was mediocre or not. What I said was, by the author's standards the article says he was.

At this stage in his career though, I'm willing to give Jeff Fisher just as much of the benefit of the doubt that I gave Vermeil 15 years ago. Maybe even more so, considering the team has only improved since his arrival. Let's just hope the verdict is just as favorable as it was back then.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Admittedly we are in an extremely tough division. But remember when the NFC East was the best division in football, and Dallas seemed to win more than their share of SBs at the time? I just hope that the Rams won't be remembered like the Bengals, Oilers, and Raiders of the 70s. Those cities had some pretty good teams during those years. Unfortunately for them they couldn't get past the Steelers. How many more SBs would the Raiders have won if not for the Steelers. If we can manage to subdue the 49ers and Seahags we should have less trouble with the rest of the league....if that day ever comes that is.

 

[bluepigpen]

Boss, this season will show it or Bradford will be shown the door. Running the ball and taking the pressure off Sam is the key to the Rams finding the playoffs.

 

[jacobarch]

some great points you guys make......

 

[Vitamike]

You can only judge a player or coach by their past body of work Caynine, not their potential future work which hasn't occurred yet. So far, Fisher has done nothing with any franchise. He got a couple of division titles in Tennessee and lucked out on making it to the Super Bowl (yes luck. Remember the Music City Miracle) He currently resides firmly in the "mediocre" category. Vermeil may have been overrated when he got to St. Louis. But he certainly subsequently proved that he deserved his lofty appraisel wouldn't you agree? Until Fisher does that he deserves exactly the title he has----Mediocre.

Yes, when you win a Wild Card game executing a play that you've practiced often during the regular season you are considered so lucky they let you go straight to the Superbowl.

Some Fisher apologist would argue Fisher was actually unlucky that year and just by a few inches!

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Yes, when you win a Wild Card game executing a play that you've practiced often during the regular season you are considered so lucky they let you go straight to the Superbowl.

Some Fisher apologist would argue Fisher was actually unlucky that year and just by a few inches!

You're actually going to argue that that play wasn't lucky Vita??? Well, OK then. I guess that's why they ran it so often, and you've seen it so often in the league....because it works once in maybe.....100 times. And in case you forgot, the Rams pretty much dominated the SB against Fisher's vaunted defense. It was indeed lucky for Tennessee to make a comeback being down 16-0, and the Rams settling for FGs in the first half instead of TDs. Of course maybe you and I have a different definition of luck. But you stick to your guns Vita......that Fisher is unlucky, and I'll stick to mine.....along with the facts....which so happen to bear out that he is mediocre.

When Bradford is gone, and Fisher is gone, and Shottenheimer is gone, and the Rams still don't have a Super Bowl victory, or have even risen above mediocrity, I wonder how some of the sympathizers will put a spin on that to weave their imaginative tales.......

 

[ozarkram]

Seems too me teams script and practice last second, all or nothing, hail Mary type plays all the time. Just to be prudent in any given situation. The miracle moniker is a media thing. To me a true miracle type play would be the immaculate reception. Miracle, fluke, or even legal it was totally unscripted. But that's another story.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

No doubt they practice them Ozark. It would be inconceivable that they would try a play that they just came up with 5 minutes ago, although in a desperate situation I'm sure that has happened as well. But I'm also sure that there was a lot of praying going on on the sideline before that play, since the probability of success was very low, even when your opponent is unsuspecting.....

 

[ozarkram]

If the play was scripted and practiced then luck would only play the same part as it would in any other play. Seems too me.

 

[Caynine29]

If the play was scripted and practiced then luck would only play the same part as it would in any other play. Seems too me.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Scripted or not, I stand by my previous statement that those plays are "low percentage" plays, whether it be on kickoff returns, flea-flickers, razzle-dazzle, etc. You can practice them until the cows come home, and even get pretty good at them. They are still destined to fail a huge percentage of the time. Anybody remember Rick Brooks tenure with the Rams? He was that kind of coach, and had the Rams at something like 5-2 with those kinds of plays. But after our opponents caught on, it was downhill from there.


In the Indianapolis/Tennessee game in question here, no doubt whatsoever that Indy's gullibility/lack of foresight in expecting a desperation play like this contributed HEAVELY to it's success. Indy's coaches were as much to blame for the success of that play as anything Tennessee did.

 

[ozarkram]

Isn't this the essence of good coaching having the right play at the right time?

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

You could probably make a better argument that it was a case of Tennessee rolling the dice, and taking advantage of some pretty lackadaisical/careless coaching on Indy's part.....so yeah, I'd agree that the play was impacted in a large part by the coaches. But it was ineptitude from Indy that allowed it to succeed more than brilliance or cunning on Fisher's part.

 

[ozarkram]

This why I rarely pursue these things. Back too the bushes.

 

[Vitamike]

You're actually going to argue that that play wasn't lucky Vita??? Well, OK then. I guess that's why they ran it so often, and you've seen it so often in the league....because it works once in maybe.....100 times. And in case you forgot, the Rams pretty much dominated the SB against Fisher's vaunted defense. It was indeed lucky for Tennessee to make a comeback being down 16-0, and the Rams settling for FGs in the first half instead of TDs. Of course maybe you and I have a different definition of luck. But you stick to your guns Vita......that Fisher is unlucky, and I'll stick to mine.....along with the facts....which so happen to bear out that he is mediocre.

When Bradford is gone, and Fisher is gone, and Shottenheimer is gone, and the Rams still don't have a Super Bowl victory, or have even risen above mediocrity, I wonder how some of the sympathizers will put a spin on that to weave their imaginative tales.......

By the very definition 'Luck' is when opportunity and preparation meet. So I not disagreeing with you totally however one can look at the Bills last drive and maybe there is a luck aspect to moving the ball into FG range to go up by one forcing the issue of the play itself.

The play itself was called the 'Home Run Throwback' and they ran it to get into FG position themselves. I guess the luck was getting into the endzone because time had expired before running out of bounds. But then again the TD was eventual so maybe not.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Yeah, the ball does bounce some funny ways in a game. All luck aside, I think there is no doubt the Rams were the best team in the league that year from start to finish. And I prefer to think they won the Super Bowl without the luck factor in their favor. As a matter of fact I think if they played the game 10 times, the Rams probably win 7 of them. Tennessee would be "lucky" to win more than 3.

 

[Vitamike]

By the way there are two kinds of luck of course.

How about Fisher's luck here?

Playing a wild card game @ 13-3.
Your opponent is 11-5.
Then you face the number 2 seed @ 13-3.
Then the number 1 seed @ 14-2.
Then the greatest show on turf in the Super Bowl @ 13-3 just to come up inches from a PAT that ties it or wins it.

That's how I remember it Boss.