OT -- Nelson Mandela died today at age 95

[yossarian]

Terrible loss, although we should all be so lucky as to die at 95.

 

[BINGO]

What a legacy he's leaving behind. He did more than his share for the world.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I heard him speak once in college. Undoubtedly the most inspirational speaker I've ever heard in person.

 

[TobyTyler]

Terrible loss, although we should all be so lucky as to die at 95.

May I ask why you feel that way? I was never that impressed by him. I thought he was a "made by the media" hero for anti apartheid. I found people like Steven Biko much more interesting.

 

[elw4corps]

May I ask why you feel that way? I was never that impressed by him. I thought he was a "made by the media" hero for anti apartheid. I found people like Steven Biko much more interesting.

They were both great men but to say mandela was made by the media is misinformed to say the least. Instead of making this kinda of statement you can just send out your condolences for a man that touched so many lives positively and did so much to bring healing and forgiviness to his country; because in the end he is a man with a family and loved ones who miss him dearly and that in itself should cause a sense of empathy and compassion.

 

[TobyTyler]

They were both great men but to say mandela was made by the media is misinformed to say the least. Instead of making this kinda of statement you can just send out your condolences for a man that touched so many lives positively and did so much to bring healing and forgiviness to his country; because in the end he is a man with a family and loved ones who miss him dearly and that in itself should cause a sense of empathy and compassion.

You are probably correct. I was just interested that someone whose life more than likely was not affected by Mandela would call his death a "terrible loss". He certainly deserves condolences on his death but I don't see him as any great world hero. He won back civil rights for black people in South Africa, yes, but calling him a world hero is way over the top. I'd put him on the same level as Lech Walensa of Poland. He gets credit in my book for opposing retribution against the apartheidists upon their surrender of power but I see him as more of a figurehead for a movement that only affected one small African country.

 

[whysies]

You are probably correct. I was just interested that someone whose life more than likely was not affected by Mandela would call his death a "terrible loss". He certainly deserves condolences on his death but I don't see him as any great world hero. He won back civil rights for black people in South Africa, yes, but calling him a world hero is way over the top. I'd put him on the same level as Lech Walensa of Poland. He gets credit in my book for opposing retribution against the apartheidists upon their surrender of power but I see him as more of a figurehead for a movement that only affected one small African country.

Let me guess, you don't think Martin Luther King, Jr is a great hero either?

Does Gandhi count? He was brown but he wasn't black so maybe?

Dude, he's a black man who became the leader of a country with a horrifically racist system steeped in its history. How is that not inspirational for people around the world?

 

[elw4corps]

You are probably correct. I was just interested that someone whose life more than likely was not affected by Mandela would call his death a "terrible loss". He certainly deserves condolences on his death but I don't see him as any great world hero. He won back civil rights for black people in South Africa, yes, but calling him a world hero is way over the top. I'd put him on the same level as Lech Walensa of Poland. He gets credit in my book for opposing retribution against the apartheidists upon their surrender of power but I see him as more of a figurehead for a movement that only affected one small African country.

South Africa is a little less then twice the size of Texas so it isn't that small. However the size of the country is still inconsequential to the courage and strength of character it to took to stand up the injustice that was apratheid. He held together a country that had all the internal ingredients necessary for a Balkan still catastrophe and showed the world what it means to forgive those that wronged you and try to move in. By saying he is not a world hero is like saying Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi are not world leaders or that what qualifies them is the size of the country the made change in.

 

[TobyTyler]

Let me guess, you don't think Martin Luther King, Jr is a great hero either?

Does Gandhi count? He was brown but he wasn't black so maybe?

Dude, he's a black man who became the leader of a country with a horrifically racist system steeped in its history. How is that not inspirational for people around the world?

You are right. I don't. I think the fact that he is the only American, with all the great Americans of history, who has a day named for him is a joke. Its an embarrassment to the people who passed that legislation. He helped do a lot of good things for his people and he was a brave man but I cannot think of a thing he did to enrich my life. Do I admire MLK, yes, do I think he is a "great hero", no way.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You are right. I don't. I think the fact that he is the only American, with all the great Americans of history, who has a day named for him is a joke. Its an embarrassment to the people who passed that legislation. He helped do a lot of good things for his people and he was a brave man but I cannot think of a thing he did to enrich my life. Do I admire MLK, yes, do I think he is a "great hero", no way.

I'm just going to assume that by "his people" you are referring to Americans.

Out of curiosity, who are some "great heroes"?

 

[TobyTyler]

South Africa is a little less then twice the size of Texas so it isn't that small. However the size of the country is still inconsequential to the courage and strength of character it to took to stand up the injustice that was apratheid. He held together a country that had all the internal ingredients necessary for a Balkan still catastrophe and showed the world what it means to forgive those that wronged you and try to move in. By saying he is not a world hero is like saying Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi are not world leaders or that what qualifies them is the size of the country the made change in.

We agree on the bolded but the geographical size of South Africa is not the point. The point is it is an insignificant country and the goings on there have no bearing on the lives of the rest of the world. That is what I meant by "small". I would agree that King and Gandhi are world leaders but certainly not world heroes. Ghandi at least did his work for an entire nation of people. King's work was for his own people only and thus does not merit the same credit.

 

[TobyTyler]

I'm just going to assume that by "his people" you are referring to Americans.

Out of curiosity, who are some "great heroes"?

No, by "his people", I meant people of his race. Did some great things to better their lives, but can you say he bettered mine?
Some great heroes. Churchill, Eisenhower, Lincoln, Washington, Darwin, both T and F Roosevelt, Einstein, Salk, Fleming,the soldiers who saved the world in WW II. Just off the top of my head.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

We agree on the bolded but the geographical size of South Africa is not the point. The point is it is an insignificant country and the goings on there have no bearing on the lives of the rest of the world. That is what I meant by "small". I would agree that King and Gandhi are world leaders but certainly not world heroes. Ghandi at least did his work for an entire nation of people. King's work was for his own people only and thus does not merit the same credit.

Not quite sure how that logic works. I doubt the British - many of whom were born in India - viewed Ghandi as working for them. And I don't see how what Ghandi did was more "for an entire nation" than what Mandela did. Those situations seem fairly analogous. Please feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Arete Tzu]

You are right. I don't. I think the fact that he is the only American, with all the great Americans of history, who has a day named for him is a joke. Its an embarrassment to the people who passed that legislation. He helped do a lot of good things for his people and he was a brave man but I cannot think of a thing he did to enrich my life. Do I admire MLK, yes, do I think he is a "great hero", no way.

So what you are saying is, the men who signed the bill are more impressive for having signed it, than the people who stood courageously on the shit end of the stick and made them realize they HAD to sign it?

I admire the men who stood their ground and took beatings, lynchings, and imprisonment. They do more for me than a politician responding to pressure.

Part of me feels like elaborating why he is a hero but you are toby.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No, by "his people", I meant people of his race. Did some great things to better their lives, but can you say he bettered mine?
Some great heroes. Churchill, Eisenhower, Lincoln, Washington, Darwin, both T and F Roosevelt, Einstein, Salk, Fleming,the soldiers who saved the world in WW II. Just off the top of my head.

Well call me crazy, but I'd say living in a country that no longer espouses segregation betters your life. Though I'm sure you'd happily go back to segregation. Beyond that, MLK did a lot of good work for poor people in general toward the end of his life. And, you know, other minorities who were also subject to segregation. Or are we limiting ourselves to "whites" and "others"?

Out of curiosity, what did Lincoln do that had a tremendous effect outside this country? Why is Teddy Roosevelt a hero? Is Stalin a hero? He arguably did more to win WWII than any other world leader. And certainly more than Churchill.

 

[TobyTyler]

Not quite sure how that logic works. I doubt the British - many of whom were born in India - viewed Ghandi as working for them. And I don't see how what Ghandi did was more "for an entire nation" than what Mandela did. Those situations seem fairly analogous. Please feel free to enlighten me.

Ghandi helped free an entire nation from a Colonial ruler. King significantly improved the lot of a small minority group of people of one nation. To say that King's goal was not to improve the lot of his own people is disengenuous at best. A brave man who stood up for his people but not a national hero.

 

[whysies]

No, by "his people", I meant people of his race. Did some great things to better their lives, but can you say he bettered mine?
Some great heroes. Churchill, Eisenhower, Lincoln, Washington, Darwin, both T and F Roosevelt, Einstein, Salk, Fleming,the soldiers who saved the world in WW II. Just off the top of my head.

In Who is Trolling the 49er Board This Hour news-

NolanNonsense ownplays the positive impact that MLK had on the lives of all Americans, racebaits



Most of the Seahawks fans who post here might be functionally retarded but at least they aren't willfully racist. I'd rather no trolls but I'll take them over this garbage.

 

[TobyTyler]

So what you are saying is, the men who signed the bill are more impressive for having signed it, than the people who stood courageously on the shit end of the stick and made them realize they HAD to sign it?

I admire the men who stood their ground and took beatings, lynchings, and imprisonment. They do more for me than a politician responding to pressure.

Part of me feels like elaborating why he is a hero but you are toby.

Me too. The politicians who sucumbed to the political pressure to place King above all other great Americans should be ashamed of themselves. Frankly, the thought of it is ludicrous

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh, and re: the only person with a day named after him, last I checked we also have Columbus Day, Lincoln's Birthday, Washington's Birthday, and Cesar Chavez Day in CA. Then of course there's Christmas, Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, etc.

 

[Arete Tzu]

Toby if what you say is your true belief, then I'd say you are made by the media. Our dear leaders who put them through shit in the first place are the real heroes, they are heroes for seeing the fault int heir ways, yay dear leaders! Politicians who got it wrong before getting it right are true heroes!