OT: Happy Birthday Mr. President

[SLY]

Yeah, the tax rate is lower than Reagan... but it's socialism. Which is a bad word why?

People who interact with politics through labels are part of the problem in this country.

You're asking me why socialism is bad?

For one, it reduces the quality of living overall for people. It completely destroys the "American dream" that so many come here and strive for. Why would anyone support a government system that completely reduces prosperity and it's feasibility? Trade would be completely off kilter due to planned market pricing. We live in a day and age where people need to manage their own lives, and if they can not do so then shame on them. The government should not be controlling or dictating our lives.

 

[elocomotive]

You're asking me why socialism is bad?

No, I'm not. Because that would likely be a fruitless discussion. I'm just tired of people using labels to stir up fear/resentment, instead of actually having a debate.

We live in a day and age where people need to manage their own lives, and if they can not do so then shame on them. The government should not be controlling or dictating our lives.

It's all trade offs. The government wasn't involved enough in the size of the home loans people were taking on or in regulating all these assetts that became toxic. Look what happened - we have a real estate/foreclosure crisis. To the other extreme, if they get too involved, it could frustrate growth or prevent people from buying a home they need or want. It's all a balancing act between maximizing profit and growth versus protecting against instability and disaster. You want to maximize the qualities of the free market while protecting against things that can lead to it's collapse.

That's the scale. Plenty of reasonable positions on it. No need for labels that dumb down the discussion.

 

[elocomotive]

We live in a day and age where people need to manage their own lives, and if they can not do so then shame on them.

Note - You're the guy that wanted mandatory drug tests for welfare recipients. Should I call you a Nazi?

 

[SLY]

No, I'm not. Because that would likely be a fruitless discussion. I'm just tired of people using labels to stir up fear/resentment, instead of actually having a debate.



It's all trade offs. The government wasn't involved enough in the size of the home loans people were taking on or in regulating all these assetts that became toxic. Look what happened - we have a real estate/foreclosure crisis. To the other extreme, if they get too involved, it could frustrate growth or prevent people from buying a home they need or want. It's all a balancing act between maximizing profit and growth versus protecting against instability and disaster. You want to maximize the qualities of the free market while protecting against things that can lead to it's collapse.

That's the scale. Plenty of reasonable positions on it. No need for labels that dumb down the discussion.

But it isn't dumbing down the discussion. We live in a time where everything is labeled, to not pay any mind to that would be completely naive.

 

[SLY]

Note - You're the guy that wanted mandatory drug tests for welfare recipients. Should I call you a Nazi?

Exactly... I don't want my hard earned tax money going to people that do not deserve it.

 

[elocomotive]

But it isn't dumbing down the discussion. We live in a time where everything is labeled, to not pay any mind to that would be completely naive.

Absolutely it is! Most of the time I can say "agree to disagree," but I think you're completely wrong and the labels are part of a larger problem that prevent compromise and exploring real solutions to complex problems. You calling Obama a socialist, which is inaccurate to begin with, accomplishes what exactly? I'm submitting your posts in this thread to be analyzed by a "death panel."

 

[dash]

Maybe we should just switch leaders for a lark - You guys take Stephen Harper and we'll take Obama.

I mean, both leaders were born outside of the US, so it should be fine, right?

/I keed, I keed.

 

[elocomotive]

Exactly... I don't want my hard earned tax money going to people that do not deserve it.

No shit. Why would you think anyone in this country does? You actually think there are people out there who WANT their tax dollars wasted?

It's about balancing people's right to privacy against that. It's also about weighing the cost of implementing such a system vs. the potential gain from having it be in place. Lots of factors going in to all these decisions. Using labels dissuades people from actually thinking about and exploring those factors.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Maybe we should just switch leaders for a lark - You guys take Stephen Harper and we'll take Obama.

I mean, both leaders were born outside of the US, so it should be fine, right?

/I keed, I keed.

lets give them Layton ... that would be HIGH-larious

 

[elocomotive]

Maybe we should just switch leaders for a lark - You guys take Stephen Harper and we'll take Obama.

I mean, both leaders were born outside of the US, so it should be fine, right?

/I keed, I keed.

Obama probably knows someone who can forge a birth certificate for Harper.

 

[Comeds]

When my healthcare costs have gone up 400% in the last 5 years with no sign of slowing down I am certainly willing to explore the option of socialized medicine. When our life expectancies, overall health, and overall healthcare is by many accounts behind some other countries I am willing to explore the option of socialized medicine.

And no, I do not want anything for free. I work hard for my money and I am sickened that my company and I pay the equivalent of half my salary for my healthcare costs. I'd happily pay a reasonable rate and forget about socialized healthcare, but I see no reason to think that a for profit healthcare system will ever do that.

 

[blindbaby]

TSX down 350 points, Dow down almost 250...Here we go again.

Over 400 now; both dow and tsx, I believe.

 

[pixburgher66]

*rabble rabble rabble* Grrr.

 

[SLY]

No shit. Why would you think anyone in this country does? You actually think there are people out there who WANT their tax dollars wasted?

It's about balancing people's right to privacy against that. It's also about weighing the cost of implementing such a system vs. the potential gain from having it be in place. Lots of factors going in to all these decisions. Using labels dissuades people from actually thinking about and exploring those factors.

That makes me a Nazi?

I completely understand what you are saying about labels... I do not fall into one category therefore I can not stand them as well. I believe this country will continue to go down the drain until the majority wakes up and sees that one set of ideals can not govern this entire country. But, like I mentioned before, you can not speak like that because that isn't the age we live in right now. Everything has a title or a category... Obama being a SOCIALIST 100% is a joke, that pic I posted was a joke, but he does have socialist ideals that he is trying to implement that will not work and will destroy this country even more. This country is far too big for socialist concepts to be introduced.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

So is Obama old enough to know better yet?

 

[dboy97]

No, I'm not. Because that would likely be a fruitless discussion. I'm just tired of people using labels to stir up fear/resentment, instead of actually having a debate.



It's all trade offs. The government wasn't involved enough in the size of the home loans people were taking on or in regulating all these assetts that became toxic. Look what happened - we have a real estate/foreclosure crisis. To the other extreme, if they get too involved, it could frustrate growth or prevent people from buying a home they need or want. It's all a balancing act between maximizing profit and growth versus protecting against instability and disaster. You want to maximize the qualities of the free market while protecting against things that can lead to it's collapse.

That's the scale. Plenty of reasonable positions on it. No need for labels that dumb down the discussion.

The government helped to push companies even subsitize home mortgages that were at best risky at worst just plain stupid.

As to government healthcare and the fairy story they are pushing that it will actually lower the deficit. Quick name the last government run program run well and under budget.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

The government helped to push companies even subsitize home mortgages that were at best risky at worst just plain stupid.

As to government healthcare and the fairy story they are pushing that it will actually lower the deficit. Quick name the last government run program run well and under budget.

TARP

 

[elocomotive]

...but he does have socialist ideals that he is trying to implement that will not work and will destroy this country even more. This country is far too big for socialist concepts to be introduced.

Name one.

 

[elocomotive]

TARP

Damn, that was one efficient answer. Lol.

 

[mattola]

better?